<p>OP: Yes. Absolutely. Dimension did not fit D’s school schedule. She went with my wife a few weeks before then with only a likely letter in hand (the formal admission decision actually came while they were en route to Hanover from New Haven), and had no problems sitting in on classes, finding students to talk to, etc. It sold her on the school. I bet the overnight stay is possible as well. D’s apartment has a couch, but I expect she’d get a better sense of things staying in a dorm.</p>
<p>Thanks AboutTheSame for the encouragement. I’ll talk to Dartmouth Admissions office tomorrow to explore options. Which other schools did your Daughter consider besides Dartmouth?</p>
<p>Best regards.</p>
<p>Harvard (accepted), Yale (rejected), Georgetown (accepted ED), Berkeley (accepted).</p>
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<p>There is no “if” about it: your impression–gleaned from who knows where–is incorrect. Houses at D vary quite significantly, and while there are a few that may well be dominated by the types you describe, there are many that are not.</p>
<p>I would suggest that if your kid wants to attend a class or two, that he or she visit on a weekday. I would also suggest that it is important to remember that whomever he or she stays with–if that does actually happen–is only one person, and does not reflect the entirety of the student body.</p>
<p>The main place where the frats’ influence dominates is in the party/social scene. In the cafeteria, or in class, or around just campus there are not gangs of boorish frat boys hanging around making trouble. Just students going about their business like any other college.</p>
<p>My non-drinking daughter, a '13, never joined a sorority. And she had decent dorm housing all four years. Housing was not a problem. </p>
<p>She was unhappy during her first two weeks of her freshman year - until she found “her people.” Ever since then she’s had plenty of like-minded and supportive friends. She drew her friends from three different sources: DSO, The Outing Club, and her church. </p>
<p>If you want to go to parties there will be no getting away from the frats and the bros. But if your daughter can find her social outlets by other means, then the frats just may not mean all that much to her if she doesn’t want them to.</p>
<p>Posters have done a great job countering the questionable info out on the web about Dartmouth, probably made worse by the Dimensions “interruption” this weekend. S’16 is leaning toward pledging a frat next year but also feels 100% comfortable if he decides against that. There are plenty of students that do not join frats and still have great social experiences.</p>
<p>S has had a fabulous experience thus far, academically, socially and in extracurriculars. Housing has been terrific (when roommate situation didn’t turn out well, they had him in a new room assignment in a top notch dorm with other freshmen in less than 48 hours). Contrary to some of the negative info, dartmouth supports its students! S is very happy with Dartmouth and I’m so glad he made this choice. So very glad.</p>
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<p>I would strongly suggest that you have your daughter, not you, contact the EC on campus that will be her most important involvement outside academics. She will likely find the students open and accommodating to a cold call. Best to spend time with the students with whom she will spend the bulk of her next four years. She can google the EC, and she will likely be able to find an email address of the president, captain, et.al. Have her ask if there is a first year or soph who would be willing to host a potential new member of their EC (since they will be there longer).</p>
<p>MidWestFather,
I PMed you this morning and I’m not quite sure what the differences are between PMs and posts and the “conversation” I got from you. Forgive me if I’m repetitive. Re-reading this, something keeps bothering me. I think it’s that you say the young man wants to stay completely away from sports and Greek life at Dartmouth. It feels a little close-minded to me, or maybe short-sighted, to go to college already convinced that you need to avoid certain institutions, like Greek life and sports. Many kids don’t participate in either and are certainly happy. What is concerning to me, though, is the pre-judgement of this young man. I wonder what he is afraid of? Is he ready to experience college on his own? I just think kids do better when they approach college and the people they will meet with an open-mind and a ready heart. I really can’t understand “staying away from sports?” Does that mean he wouldn’t ever go to a game? Does it mean he wouldn’t be friends with an athlete? I can surely understand someone’s not being an athlete, but I’ve never heard it phrased that they want to stay away from all sports. With all due respect, it’s a little worrisome to me. Is he afraid of athletes? I don’t enjoy sports, but I can’t see purposefully “staying away.” I feel the same about Greek life. Most Ivy League students are mature enough to approach a new situation with a good balance of caution, eagerness, curiosity etc etc. To slam the door shut on things before he even gets there seems like he’s setting himself up for unhappiness. If there is a school where he doesn’t feel this knee-jerk reaction to social situations, maybe that’s a better fit for him. No one should start a school fearful-- it’s a recipe for diaster. I don’t think there’s anything to fear at Dartmouth, but each student should feel in his own confort zone wherever he goes. Has this student had a history of being timid about new situations? Maybe he should go to a small liberal arts college with tons of support or take a gap year or live at home and commute? Not everyone has to go away to school. If he does stretch himself and go away to school, he really needs to approach the experience with less fear and more trust of other people. There aren’t bad guys at Dartmouth waiting to corrupt and abuse. There are, though, decisions and choices and forks in the road of life that present themselves. It’s a time to be challenged and grow into yourself. I wish you all good luck. I’m worried though. It would be awful for your daughter or the family friend to be unhappy and overwhelmed. Students at Dartmouth are never forced to go to frat parties, but if your kids
live in judgement of the kids who do, they might be miserable. Most kids will venture out to give parties a try-- at every school I’ve ever heard about. Good luck. Keep me posted-- eps if you hear from my son.</p>
<p>I think it’s a mistake to make a college decision based on a few magazine articles when there is so much more information out there about Dartmouth that indicates it to be a fantastic school where students can receive a wonderful education in a safe environment. My D is presently deciding between several acceptances from top schools right now, Dartmouth among them. I have no prior connection with Dartmouth, but did attend a comparable, highly selective Northeast college about 30 years ago. Just prior to the deadline for making my decision about which school to attend way back then, the NYT published an article about “scandalous behavior” at the school that I had finally chosen. I got more concerned calls from family and friends about why I should steer clear of that school than I care to remember, all having the effect of making me start to second-guess what had been a carefully thought out plan about which school felt right for me. And back then, most of us did not have the benefit of visiting schools so far away from home to see if the fit was right.</p>
<p>To make a long story short, I decided to go forward with matriculation, with the idea that I could always transfer if things were truly as outrageous as portrayed in that long-ago article. My parents were smart enough to let me make that decision for myself. As it turned out, those were the best four years of my life, and I wouldn’t have done it any other way. As a student at the school, I found that there was some element of “truth” in the news article, but that the article’s “reality” only applied to those students who chose to be a part of that world. The school was smaller than Dartmouth, but big enough to have your own very large circle of friends that weren’t part of the world portrayed in the article. In fact, I learned first-hand that the article really focused on what was a very minor aspect of the larger college community. What community doesn’t have some aspect that we consider negative, undesirable, etc., whether it be our own neighborhood, town, church group, high school, kindergarten, family members, etc. We don’t live in a perfect world at any level, but we all have to learn to maneuver through it.</p>
<p>As to excessive drinking (and some drugs) on any college campus, that was true just about everywhere 30 years ago as it probably is now. Back then, if you chose to get drunk, you did it AT THE PARTY. Now, with the higher drinking age, I think there is a tendency to drink excessively BEFORE the party and to arrive drunk. That is a recipe for disaster, particularly for females, and we have hopefully raised our children to be aware of the risks. Now – as it was back then – drinking is the individual student’s choice, and we must all live with the consequences of our actions. That’s what I call “growing up”. </p>
<p>I think it would be na</p>
<p>A reminder that good writing can portray any school in any light. [Lost</a> in the Meritocracy - Walter Kirn - The Atlantic](<a href=“Lost in the Meritocracy - The Atlantic”>Lost in the Meritocracy - The Atlantic)</p>
<p>Thank you so very much for all of your insightful postings! We are most grateful to read your different perspectives and experiences. Your postings have prodded and provoked us to examine our assumptions about Dartmouth, fraternities and sports. You make many excellent points that we had not considered carefully enough. </p>
<p>We called the Admissions office today and heard that while a visit can be arranged, they won’t help defray the cost of a visit the way they had offered for the Dimensions program. Since it would cost over $1,000 in airfare and ground transportation to visit Dartmouth over the next week, we decided we could not afford to do so. So, we will learn as much as we can through you, other Dartmouth alums, current Dartmouth students and the Dartmouth website.</p>
<p>One question we have is does anyone know how easy or difficult it would be for a Dartmouth student with an AB in Engineering Science to gain acceptance in Dartmouth Thayer School of Engineering’s Masters or PhD program in engineering? Spending a fifth year to get the BE in Engineering would be ideal but financial aid will be far worse for that fifth year and we believe that we won’t be able to afford it. </p>
<p>So, the only route that we could afford would be for DD to get the AB in Engineering in four years with the very generous scholarship we’re getting and apply for either MS or PhD in Engineering Sciences program at Dartmouth. These two programs would be funded by the researchers so financial aid won’t be necessary, according to the Dartmouth website: [Master</a> of Science (M.S.) | Thayer School of Engineering at Dartmouth](<a href=“http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/academics/graduate/ms/]Master”>Dartmouth Engineering | MS)</p>
<p>Any thoughts on this issue? I’ll re-post this issue as a separate thread on CC. Thanks again!</p>
<p>It’s fairly easy to get into the MS or PhD program at Thayer if you went to Thayer as an undergrad. You have to do well in your classes, obviously, and find a professor who you would want to work with (and would want to work with you). </p>
<p>Don’t rule out getting the BE. It’s a far more useful degree (in life, professionally) than the BA, and taking 9 more ENGS classes makes you a better engineer. That said, it’s really not that hard to finish the BE in 4 years. Consider it a second major. A lot of kids do it. And before everyone jumps on the “what about no APs” thing … it’s still doable. </p>
<p>I know several people who graduated with a BE in four years who had no AP credits coming in. You have 12 terms (that’s 36 classes, 38 if you take 2 four-course terms) to fit in the 19 classes that make up the BA/BE, plus the 6 or so prereqs. Then you have about 6 classes to fit in the rest of the distribs (you will fulfill QDS, SCIx2, TLS though the major/prereqs). That leaves 5-7 in which you can get the language requirement (if needed), and take other classes. If you plan well, you can easily get a minor out of those remaining classes. Or another major. It just requires good planning and a desire to work hard.</p>
<p>Anyone with an undergraduate degree from Thayer is also well-suited to attend graduate school at another institution (which should be without cost to the student in any STEM field).</p>
<p>I think you should speak directly to the Thayer school about what financial aid might be offered for 5th year B.E. students. S graduated in '10 with a B.A. and '11 with B.E. Funds for his 5th year came directly from Thayer and it was able to be more generous than Dartmouth had been.</p>
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<p>You will have liitle or no social life if you try to do both degrees in 4-years. The extra AB really offers no benefit and Thayer is the only engineering school in the country that requires engineers to get an AB before a BE. </p>
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<p>Be aware that Thayer has a much more limited ability to offer in-depth courses in specific disciplines, like Mech E and Chem E, than larger engineering schools. D may want to be at a school where she can get more depth in her area of interest, especially at the graduate level. Check out the course catalogue for Thayer versus a bigger engineering school like MIT.</p>
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<p>That’s really not true at all. It’s all about being productive when you’re actually doing work and managing your time well. I know varsity athletes, heavily-involved Greeks, people who worked 20-hr/wk jobs, etc. who did both in 4 years. It’s not as much work as you think it is.</p>
<p>Courses at Thayer are much more limited in specific disciplines than at larger institutions. The research, however (which is all that matters, really, if you’re getting a PhD) is still top-notch (there’s just much less of it at Dartmouth than at a larger R1 university).</p>
<p>Sorry I came into this late… Dartmouth 13. No secret my experience here has been negative. I try to stop people from making same mistake. Not sure where else these students were accepted, but the Greek system at Dartmouth is as bad if not worse than its reputation, and somewhere in the thread I read that someone wrote that a student might have to die before Dartmouth really gets hold of it… true. They don’t speak about it, they don’t stop it, they just close their eyes and let it be. Engineering at Dartmouth is not (in my opinion) the strongest program. I am a fan of Cornell engineering. I wouldn’t commit to Dartmouth. And I am saying that to you admits, as really, if I could do it over again, I wouldn’t.</p>
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<p>Fred, did you like anything about Dartmouth?</p>
<p>I liked the traditions; midnight snowball fight, homecoming… being able to say I was a Dartmouth student. But no, I should have chosen college based upon something other than the name and the effect I perceived the name to have on people. I should have listened to the Greek system rumors, as they are true. I would have done as well and enjoyed other traditions at another school and I would have been happy for four years rather than justifying and counting down for four years. I got caught up in the hype when I decided to attend. It was a mistake.</p>
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<p>I have a wish for you. It is that you will look back in 20 years and see a different past. Life is random. I can look back at points in my life and realize that if I’d made different choices, I would never have met my wife (a cross-country happenstance). I would not have my daughter. I can’t imagine my life without them, and I long ago stopped regretting paths not taken. I wish for you the same happiness wherever your life takes you. Good luck.</p>
<p>So sorry for FredOliver who seems to be in the same class as my S. I am sorry to hear you regret your time at Dartmouth. My S has enjoyed his four years there as far as I can tell. Never joined the Greek system and had no interest from day one. I do not understand at all how the Greek system can affect anyone negatively if they choose not to partake. I am also the parent of a S at another small college with probably even a more intense Greek culture and who just joined a frat. This S knew from day one that he wanted to join one. Yes, it has been somewhat of concern to me, but he is the type of individual who likes this kind of camaraderie. S at Dartmouth could care less and prefers
to meet people in other ways. I actually was concerned that he did not mingle or go to the parties, but each student finds their own niche. He met very serious girlfriend during Sophomore summer. Basically, I think it’s great especially that Midwestfather has his eyes wide open prior to college. I have no doubt that his daughter will find a great group of friends should she choose to go to Dartmouth. My S has enjoyed life in a small town, biking, mountains, etc. Yes,he is ready to move on (as he is not the very outdoorsytype and four years is enough being in an isolated place). He and friends have enjoyed nice trips to Boston on the Dartmouth coach. (Maybe the fact that he never had acar there, has made him feel even more isolated.) Either way, he has enjoyed his time, both he and girlfriend have been accepted to numerous number of top ranked post graduate professional schools, with unbelievable amount of merit money- so I do believe in a “Dartmouth degree”, although clearly not taking any credit away from S for his hard work and success. Good luck to all.</p>