When the orchestra director gave him the lecture about commitments, about missing a gig, etc, I would probably have looked him square in the eye and said “how the h*ll would you know?”, with the implication that being a school orchestra director meant he likely had no real experience of what it is like for a performer (not to mention that there is a big difference between soloing with a school orchestra and a professional gig, if they take a pro gig it is likely they know what other commitments they have. Not to mention that pro musicians do run into situations where they can’t do a gig, and it is perfectly acceptable to find someone to fill in for you at the gig you have to miss). Anyway, I am glad your S did that and he is feeling much relieved, I understand only too well how the kids do feel a responsibility towards the things they do, and how they can get upset when they face idiots like the band and orchestra director, so it is good he is away from that, he doesn’t need the negativity.
Oh, there were SO MANY things I was tempted to say but I’m not one of those people who are good with the quick come-backs and, well, that was probably a good thing in this case.
My S reminded me last night that it was the orch director who referred him to a wedding gig last spring. There was an initial email agreement with the bride and then, about a week before the wedding, my son tried to contact her to re-confirm everything. She didn’t respond despite numerous attempts and he was getting desperate, so he emailed the orch director, who didn’t respond either. Finally, on the morning of the wedding, she called and told him that she’d cancelled the gig with the orch director weeks ago. Of course, my S already had a combo lined up and told her so, at which point she agreed to “let them” play for a reduced fee. He didn’t have a choice and took it and gave up his share of the fee so that he could pay his band what he’d promised them.
I contacted the orch director afterwards and his response was that the parties were responsible for communication and never addressed whether she’d contacted him about cancelling. Didn’t mention having received an email from my S either. At the time, not knowing anything about the director, we just assumed she’d lied about cancelling but having now witnessed his somewhat scary passive-aggressive behavior, I have my doubts.
@musicprnt, my S and I both had the same thought about his advice about “being in the business”. LOL But couldn’t do that to the band director who was at least being gracious about the whole thing.
What a story about the orchestra director! Is this the same person who was lecturing your son about commitments?
In the end it is probably better to let it go, but to be honest I have soured on a lot of school music directors and their attitude, I have heard and seen enough horror stories to do this. There are good ones, the ones who understand their job is to try and inculcate a love of music in the kids and to have a program where kids can play, often kids like myself who let’s just say were not serious, and who also see a kid who is sincerely interested in music and their first thought is how to help the kid, not exploit him/her. I understand only too well the pressure they are under, I know that in my high school we wouldn’t have had our stage bands probably if it weren’t the (forced) committment to marching band, for example, and i know getting into festivals and such can make the program look good and make the director look good…but if the commitment should still be to the kids and their future.
Yes, his key point being “communication”.
His original beef was that he only got 2 days’ notice that my S was going to be an hour late to an evening rehearsal, and that the communication came from me instead of my son. It came from me because the music directors have repeated said that these extra rehearsals are “required graded assignments”, meaning students can’t excuse themselves. And, to be clear, I’m in no way saying that S is perfect when it comes to scheduling. He’s 17, with average time-management skills for someone his age, playing in 5 jazz performance groups plus a cross-over band with his friends, taking 7 classes, and in the throes of college applications/prescreens/auditions. I’m sure he could have time-managed better, communicated better. He had explained, apologized.
Then, the second beef was that he’d heard rumors yesterday morning that S was withdrawing before being informed by my S. And he apparently didn’t like the manner in which my S told him. My S finally got a meeting with the Dean at lunchtime, at which time she told him all the necessary approvals had been secured. He then drove to the other high school and because he was scheduled to rehearse with the orchestra, thought he should tell him so that the replacement could use that rehearsal time. The orch director yelled at him in front of the class, called his decision “selfish”. Wouldn’t let my S say anything, so my S apparently just walked away.
I’d scheduled a meeting with the band director to explain and, obviously, the orch director felt that he was entitled to air his complaints. He seemed to think that he’d been seriously wronged.
Yuk! good riddance! And best of luck to you and S going forward!
This may be a very important lesson for your son. My D had similar situations in high school particularly around audition time. But you know … she ran into some of this last year during audition time for grad school…and now for summer programs. Some people will “guilt trip” you to get their way. Their project is so important to them that they cannot see outside of themselves. Saying no is a skill many of our kids have to learn. They cannot be pleasers. They have to be able to disappoint others. Otherwise they’ll be stuck doing too much for too little.
There are too many “opportunities” to do free stuff in the arts … and navigating what free stuff is worth it and knowing when you are being used is important…it can only be learned by harsh experiences sometimes.
So look on the bright side. He’s learning an important lesson that will serve him well in the future.
And btw … the directors emotions are not your son’s responsibility (nor yours). They are his alone. If he’s upset that’s fine. But your son has no ownership of his…tantrum.
My son faced the similar situatuation in high school and had to drop school orchestra after freshman year. The orchestra had a mandatory evening rehearsals that was connected to the orchestra grade. He often had conflicts but had to give the school orchestra the priority over the youth orchestra or the performance elsewhere. In his freshman year when he refused to apply for all state orchestra where he had a great chance to become a first chair, the orchestra director threw a fit. She gave him a lecture about his responsility to school, friends, the orchestra…, and made him feel cornered. My son and I had a long talk with his private teacher, then dropped the school orchestra class.
He is now in his senior year in a conservatory. He still has to deal with somewhat similar incidents. He was invited to a short 5 days music festival just last month but could not attend because the orchestra director would not excuse him from one rehearsal. He has accepted the director’s decision and moved on, but is still sorry he missed the great opportunity.
The hard point is “being nice” and accommodating but not being used or taken advantage of. It is a fine line which our kids have to learn.
Although I sympathize a lot with your son’s predicament, I think there is a difference when this happens in a high school situation vs. a conservatory situation. My daughter’s conservatory is very strict about orchestra. When you are in a rotation you really are not able to be excused, even from a rehearsal, except for dire reason (serious illness, death in the family.) If you have a professional commitment lined up you can request in advance (before the start of the semester) not to be in a cycle during that time, but otherwise if you miss a rehearsal your grade will plummet. I understand why they do it–if they did not, orchestra quality would suffer, as students are always being offered opportunities.
I don’t think its legal in a public high school to require classes or participation outside of the normal school day contingent on a grade. Now a private or a charter school may have different requirements, but some teachers/directors may be stretching the truth in order to “encourage” participation. Of course I have only lived in Virginia Texas Florida California and Arizona, so other states may be different or the laws may have changed. College is a completely different story because it is all tuition based.
I don’t think the orchestra rehearsal @octaves mentioned was a regular meeting of the class, but almost all school orchestras and marching bands I have been around do and can call for evening rehearsals. Band/Orchestra is usually a regular class that meets during the day but they also routinely have ‘special rehearsals’ that can be at night or weekends when things are coming up, like marching band or competitions or stage band/orchestra performances and usually these are mandatory and can affect your grade, I don’t know of any specific law that bans such rehearsals. They might ban regular nighttime rehearsals ie the orchestra meeting every week at night instead of during the day in school, that kind of night school may be banned (not to mention that the teacher’s union would frown on that).
As @glassharmonica said, conservatory orchestras are different, when you commit to the orchestra you are supposed to fully commit to it, that cycle and that performance, and clear the way for rehearsals and the performances before committing to it. One of the problems conservatories face is students, especially those who are already establishing professional careers with solo gigs, competittions and the like, is they aren’t exactly enamored of orchestra, hence the rules because students otherwise might chuck orchestra for the ‘important’ stuff.
I don’t think @Sguti40 was saying that the laws ban evening rehearsals, just that they cannot be required for a grade. Actually, another teacher mentioned this to us. He doesn’t think they’re allowed to “grade” the evening rehearsals but are probably doing it without the school administration knowing. If a parent were to complain, he suspects it wouldn’t be enforceable. Rehearsals can be “mandatory” and non-attendance can have consequences such as loss of chairs, or solos, or other privileges, but they technically can’t dock your grade.
Exactly @ScreenName48105. After school hours are not supposed affect a public high school student’s grade. Again, contracts may be different in a private school setting.
I see what you are talking about, but I suspect that law is kind of meaningless, grading in orchestra or band is basically up to the music director, and because the grading is all subjective, there is nothing stopping them from dropping the grade. A lot of the grade in band/orchestra is based on things like dedication to the group, attitude, effort and so forth, and that covers a lot of ground, and music directors are often the closest thing to a dictator there is. A parent could complain, but the director likely would not be stupid enough to say “oh, Junior didn’t make my evening rehearsal”, he would say that his grade was based on the director determing the kid wasn’t putting in enough effort, and could come up with a ton of other things to justify it. One of the things that is important to remember in all of this is that it is very unlikely that a docked grade in orchestra would hurt a kid, I doubt very much a school of music would look at his transcript and say “hmm, he got a B in orchestra one grading period, must be something wrong with him”, among other things , I don’t think many of them would give a lot of weight to what a school music director says one way or the other, for a lot of reasons.
In our schools, all classes, including band, orchestra, etc., are required to have a published syllabus that clearly defines a grading rubric. Pretty much every point is accounted for and defined, e.g. what “preparedness” means and so forth. What that means, in practice, is that you start with 100 points and get points deducted for things like being late to class, not having a pencil/music/instrument, missing parts of your uniform for marching, concerts, etc. There are also a few performance grades, like chair auditions, technique tests, etc. and, again, grades are based on a rubric. All of these aggregate grades are available online.
In our system, at least, for a student who is prepared and plays well, the director would have a hard time giving a bad grade for not attending an evening rehearsal then attributing it to other things.
Interesting posts! My son (a senior) is in somewhat of a similar situation right now. He is the go-to guy for all things piano for the high school, and was pulled in to help with the musical (which he had initially turned down because of a heavy AP course load and college applications) just one week before it began. His grades plummeted, and he missed some early application deadlines. Now he is trying to play catch up with his grades and has to finish his applications this weekend to meet the next round of deadlines. He is hoping for some talent scholarships but will at the most minor in music.
The one good thing is that he does have a very good relationship with the music director. Yes, sometimes he does feel like he’s just being used, but he has also been given a lot of opportunities. Unfortunately, the time commitment has prevented him from doing other things he’d like to do, like audition for the honors county jazz band. And he has no life whatsoever outside of homework and practice. He didn’t even take lessons for a few years during high school because he spent so much time learning the music that the high school teachers gave him, rather than learning music for his own musical education. I don’t think he regrets it, but I do think he will enjoy going to college and being able to take lessons and focus on himself more. He’ll still participate in a bunch of groups, I’m sure, but it will be nice to start fresh without as many assumed obligations.
I’m just glad that the people at his high school are so nice to him - my son would have given up music altogether if he had to deal with directors like that!
I think, for us, the lesson learned (a little too late) is that all of those “opportunities” weren’t as great or value-added as they seemed, even less so when you consider the time commitment involved.
@ScreenName48105, you are so correct that the time factor, no matter what the opportunity is, is such an important consideration. Sometimes it is difficult to determine the level of “value-added” for the experiences. We weighed attending the Fischoff Chamber Music Competition vs. AP exams, youth orchestra summer tours vs. summer “practice camp” options, invitations to join school performance groups vs. time for doing homework, etc. Ultimately, we decided that if in doubt, the answer was “No” to additional “opportunities”.
The pressure that kids can put themselves under by taking on too much is very real. Before “mine” entered high school I watched the very talented child of a professional colleague fail multiple high school classes while preparing for solo performance with orchestras (this was a surprise to the parents who didn’t realize the school work was not getting done) and another over-burdened child with a suicide attempt. Again, the parents had not realized the degree of stress this apparently very successful young performer was feeling. I’m so glad I learned from these experiences. We want our kids to be happy and healthy and in this for the long term - not burned out before conservatory/college.
I would say that S has almost all his time tied up, but does not live in exhaustion except maybe one day per month. He has just the capability to do the typical heavy-hitting junior homework to keep grades in the 'A’s, and to work on his music skills a less-than-desired amount of the time. This is after dropping high school band. He has been spreading his private lessons further apart because each week is not guaranteed to be a week of progress for that lesson. It is sort of a judgement call that the upcoming summer will be a time to focus on audition material more, and the senior year will have fewer demanding classes (e.g., no APUSH, APChem) such that practice can be better in the fall semester leading up to pre-screen and audition. I would not know how he could do more than 1 serious class-load and 1 serious EC. We are all so thankful for the holiday break that is this week!!