My college kids and I have had this discussion about the definition of racism. They’ve learned the definition that @Marvin100 posts which might be different for many of what we parents have grown up with. The kids and I came to the agreement that we will use the definition for racism discussed above but will refer to incidents like this as prejudice and discrimination. All 3 are not nice things and are wrong.
^^thanks for that @whenhen!
What if the roommate owns the house or dwelling?
In some states putting any discrimination around a rental is illegal, as Whenhen is posting. Now in practice a landlord is going to rent to the person they choose, but they cannot put the discrimination upfront. You can put a total occupant rule in place in my state, but you cannot discriminate on age, sex, racial, religious etc. restrictions. I think in our state a person could certainly place an ad looking for a particular type of roommate and then proceed to look for an apartment, but the landlords in Michigan cannot discriminate with applicants.
@SouthFloridaMom9 California law is different than many other states with respect to owner occupied housing. In an owner occupied situation, the landlord is free to discriminate when renting out one bedroom in a single family house. Because the landlord will share facilities with the tenants, discrimination is ok. I’m unsure if discrimination is allowed under California law if the landlord rents out two or more bedrooms in the place he or she already lives in.
If a person owns a four unit complex and he or she lives in one unit, the complex owner can specify who gets to live in the unit that they reside in. However, he or she cannot discriminate on who lives in the other three units.
Apologies for the murky answer. I work for a larger apartment company so I’m not super clear on how the laws work for smaller complexes/ one off rentals.
@marvin1000
Racism does not require privilege and power.
These are the simple and full definitions according to Merriam-Webster:
Simple:
- poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race
- the belief that some races of people are better than others
Full:
- a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
- racial prejudice or discrimination
Racism per se is a belief, word or act that is based on race, usually – but not always – meant to harm, demean, belittle, or exclude. In this case, the racism is exclusionary.
It’s not illegal, but it is racist.
The question I have is if they didn’t put the POC in their post how many white women would have wanted to stay with 3 women of color? Did they really need to put it there so white people wouldn’t apply? From my experience, it’s unnecessary to try to exclude white people from majority black places. So few of them want to be there anyway. Look at HSBC for example, they give away money left and right trying to attract more white people. They just caused a big deal about nothing because chances are they would have ended up with a black roommate anyway.
^^I would have been ok with three black room mates. I’ve lived in one place in the world where I was a significant racial minority, and several where I was an ethnic minority. My daughter’s room mates 2 of the 4 years she was at summer camp were african american.
I worry WAY more about compatible value systems with the people I’m around than if I can share their hair products.
I don’t think I would ever recommend that my daughters apply to an historically black college because I would feel like if they got in and got big merit scholarships, it would be taking away an opportunity from someone else who may not have the same opportunities my daughters would have in other places. I may be totally wrong here, but that is my initial thought with regards to HBCU’s.
@MotherOfDragons That may be your initial reaction but that isn’t true for everyone. There been plenty of threads right here on CC asking about being white at an HBCU. It’s clearly a concern for lots of people. It’s nothing wrong with being uncomfortable being with being the minority in the room, but for some reason some white people like to dance around it. I think they think people will call them a racist if they say it. I feel uncomfortable when I’m the only woman in a room full of men. That doesn’t make me a man hater.
@albert69 “Imagine if a white student did this, with a “whites only” approach.”
I hate that the color of people’s skin is such a major dividing line, but it’s not like these roommate seekers invented it. The ancestors of many white people subjugated people of color for centuries for their own economic gain. Many white people now live on top of this economic upper hand, even if they don’t realize it.
But the class system isn’t divided by race anymore. Many white people live in the slums, under many disadvantages, while many people of color have lots of privileges. And the cultural dividing line is blurred as well, skin color no longer determining which culture you’re from.
Of course, this isn’t right of them to do. It’s discriminatory and divisive. But, as a white person who has never experienced oppression due to my skin color first-hand, I can’t get too upset when people simply don’t want me as a roommate.
What I do take offense to is the idea that I’ve never faced oppression simply because I’m white. Which isn’t the issue at all here.
But is it possible that there is greater concern or racism when the numerous non-white people at the college are mostly black, versus other minorities? Seems that this type of question does not come up with colleges like many of those in California or Hawaii.
Non-white people in the US are more likely to be frequently in various situations where they are a member of a minority group. But there are many places in the US where it would be uncommon for a white person to be in a situation where s/he is a member of a minority group. So it may be seen as a novel situation by white people more than non-white people.
“He just wanted to live with someone he could to relate to more” – @RightCoaster and that’s probably why the women in the OP wanted a POC. At the end of the day, when you go home, you just want to chill in the easiest way possible. I get it.
@sensation723 as I clearly explained, my concern with an HBCU is not racial, and “comfort” around other races is not an issue with me or my family.
My concern is unfairly taking advantage of a limited amount of opportunities as a caucasian. My aim as a human is to have as much of the world happy and educated as possible, and being mindful of the most equitable way to create as many opportunities for as many people as possible.
I’m white. I don’t take issue with this. Many colleges in the US once excluded people of color from attending, either through outright racist policies, or by cost (as wealth in the US has historically been held primarily within white hands). Even today, white people are generally the most represented of any racial group on campus.
Given the racist roots that so many colleges have, as well as the very real racism that still exists today, I can understand why students of color would prefer living around each other. At the end of the day, you want to come home to a place where you feel safe, where you can talk about your troubles in solidarity with those around you, and where you can have a respite from feeling like the odd one out on campus. You don’t want to constantly feel the need to educate others.
For people whose identities put them in the minority, sometimes the only way you can feel fully comfortable is to surround yourself with others who are like you in whatever respect. I know that college is about challenging yourself and about being uncomfortable, but it doesn’t have to be like that 24/7, especially when it comes to living spaces.
》》 People of color talking about white people don’t occupy positions of privilege or power. 《《
So apparently our president is not black? :-h
- I don't think that the housing decision was racist because one can be uncomfortable around someone of another race for a number of reasons and not necessarily view that race as "inferior" or theirs as "superior."
- That being said, POC definitely can be racist. Racism can happen on an individual level, and one doesn't need system- or institution-backed power to have "power" over someone. I don't know when "racism" became synonymous with "systemic oppression," especially when the term "systemic racism" also exists.
- I hate when POC play the "oppression" card to absolve themselves of any blame. I don't think there should be any double standards when it comes to treating people with respect.
- Despite it being prejudiced and exclusionary--even if it was racist--I still think that if the students have the power to choose their roommate, they should be able to exclude whomever they want. Given that there are many places that would happily welcome a White roommate, it doesn't really hurt them.
- I get the argument for occasional self-segregation, especially in living spaces, friend groups, or clubs. I get that people can be uncomfortable being in spaces where they are in the minority. However, I think that gaining an intrinsic sense of self is important. You shouldn't need to be constantly surrounded by people who look and think like you to feel comfortable. When POC start labelling things as "harmful to my well-being" and "necessary for my well-being," it becomes really easy to justify just about any kind of racism, exclusion, and self-segregation, not to mention moderating the conduct and thought of others. This kind of justification is leading many college students to expect to be able to feel comfortable not only in their own homes, but pretty much everywhere.
This is repeated so often that people just automatically believe this to be true. But the only study of this so far, by a Harvard professor, shows that just the opposite might be true.
However, Roland Fryer’s study found that other kinds of police use of force were more likely to occur to black people who are stopped by police.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0
Note that this is separate from how likely a black person is to be stopped by police in the first place compared to a white person. Differences here could be the result of racial profiling by either police or people who call the police. But combining a greater tendency of police to stop black people and use force on a black person who is stopped creates many more negative experiences with police among black people than white people. Since non-lethal use of force is far more common on the ground than lethal use of force, that contribution to personal experiences preloads people’s attitudes toward police, so that when a less common use of lethal force gets broadcast in the media, it is not surprising how opinions differ.
I agree with your post, OnMyWay2013. If black people want to exercise this freedom of association by excluding certain roommate possibilities, they need to accept that whites or other groups may want to do likewise. As to the idea that only those with power or privilege can be racist: black people have psychological power in this country over whites and use it all the time to shame white people into doing LOTS of things. So, yes, black people can be racist, too.
I agree with everything you posted. However, the lower use of lethal force was a surprise to the professor, and not commonly known. It will be interesting to see if further studies bear that out.
A throwback to the days of segregation.