<p>Don’t forget that your undergraduate years are formative years - your college may determine who your friends are, what career you choose, what cultural events and diversity of thought you are exposed to, how you speak, dress, present yourself, spend your leisure time and where you live. If the choice is between say, UVA and Georgetown, then by all means pick UVA debt-free. But if it is between say, a lower-tier state U or Stanford, I would do everything I could to make Stanford work.</p>
<p>Anonymous1993 -</p>
<p>This question is brought up so often that it should have its own forum. Here is one thread that answers some of your questions from the student’s standpoint. The author did indeed choose cheap over expensive, and seems to be happy about the decision four years later:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/905843-top-student-3rd-tier-school-four-years-later.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/905843-top-student-3rd-tier-school-four-years-later.html</a></p>
<p>It is very personal decision. IMO, no school, including Harvard is worth the debt. More so at UG level. If anything, maybe Medical School, but I personally even against this one. But again, it is my personal preferences, I do not like to be in debt. Others feel different and see debt as inevitable aspect of life. I disagree with one thing that outsiders have sufficient amount of information to give an intelligent advice.</p>
<p>I think there are two, and exactly two, legitimate reasons to pick a higher-ranked school over a lower-ranked school: (1) because the quality of the educational experience is likely to be better, due to better resources and the fact that your peers will tend to be higher-achieving students; (2) because its prestige will help you in the grad school and job market. Those are two very, very good reasons, and for some people they may be worth incurring some debt.</p>
<p>But “who your friends are”??? Good grief. My friends encompass people who went to colleges of all ranks and descriptions, and some who went to no college at all. I went to a fairly high-ranking (though not top-tier) LAC, and made some wonderful friends there. If I had gone to Harvard, I would have made some wonderful friends there. If I had gone to Southern Maine or East Tennessee State, I would have made some wonderful friends there. And I would have been exposed to “cultural events and diversity of thought” in any of those places–perhaps more of the latter, really, at the lower-ranked schools.</p>
<p>You mention political science as one of your interests. Suppose this field really becomes your passion. Upon graduation from college, you have a great opportunity to work on a political campaign will you be willing and able to take a low-paying position that will offer tremendous real-world experience, or will you be under the gun to land a $75k a year job to start paying off your debt? Just something to think about.</p>
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But…come now. Would they have been the right friends…really? lol</p>
<p>My brothers and husband all hire engineers for major companies. The difference in salaries between the MIT/Cal Tech hires and the state school hires (with good engineering) is SMALL. Seriously NOT WORTH big debt.</p>
<p>BTW…my friend’s son graduated from Columbia engineering in 09…he still doesn’t have a job and has big debt…so not worth it.</p>
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And we all know starting salary is the end all reason for choosing a school. ;)</p>
<p>Folks. I think somewhere between the truly utilitarian and the purely aesthetic is where most of us would like to be. The choices our families make are unique and personal and generalizations are very easy to make and very difficult to make stick. IMO, both extremes look kinda silly. But as always, that’s jmo. ;)</p>
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My kid chose the less prestigious UG with no debt and loved it. It allowed her to chose the more prestigious professional school (with big :eek: debt) and she’s loving it, too. But she still dresses, talks, presents herself to others, and “leisures” the same way she did in UG. I guess she’s just pretty comfortable being herself. 
She’s not a very good chameleon.</p>
<p>We took on some debt so that one S could attend his first choice school. In addition to a fine education he had some excellent research opportunities and a senior thesis advisor who collaborated with faculty at the school he was hoping to attend for grad school. Of course, there’s no way of knowing how things would have played out if he’d attended the state U. However, I’m sure the recommendations he had from researchers who were well known in his area of interest where a big boost to his application. In addition to being accepted at his grad school of choice he was awarded an NSF Graduate Research Fellowship that covers his tuition and living expenses (and some travel) without his having to TA or RA. </p>
<p>Like MiamiDAP, we are very debt averse; until now our only debt had been a mortgage and H’s undergrad loans. But, we are feeling like we made a good investment wih this one.</p>
<p>I have neighbors who think nothing of loading up the credit cards for big screen TV’s and ski vacations, who tap their home equity to put in luxurious kitchens and bathrooms, and who lease cars because “why own a honda when you can rent a lexus?”. </p>
<p>I am debt averse- I never want to own anything I can’t afford to pay for. H and I made sure we bought a house we could pay off with one salary (although we’re two working professionals) so we didn’t end up feeling “owned” by the bank. I cannot imagine taking on debt for toys or vacations or for granite countertops- as much as I would enjoy all those things.</p>
<p>These same neighbors would NEVER take on loans for their kids college educations. Then they get all self-righteous about how debt averse they are; private college is for stooges; only idiots would pay for college when everyone knows that directional state U and Yale both teach bio and calculus from the same textbook and are, ergo, the same.</p>
<p>I respect their decisions and wouldn’t dream of telling them that some things are, in fact, worth going into debt for. Moreover, investing in one’s own human capital is probably the only type of debt where there is a remote chance of a positive ROI over time. (Believe me, in a down housing market, nobody is getting excited over someone else’s backyard hot tub or jacuzzi.)</p>
<p>OP- debt is a serious long term obligation. Only you and your parents can determine the right course of action, but to me, taking on ed loans is a much better use of debt than buying a car or a vacation.</p>
<p>its impossible to answer this without knowing A. Which state flagship B. Which “dream school” C. How much debt D. any other personal charecteristics of a student that might make a large state flagship a poor fit. Or not.</p>
<p>OP may not have intended it, but posting the “dilemma” in such generic terms, is less useful to answering the question, then in starting another generic CC flagship vs dream debate.</p>
<p>I would not support big debt for either choice…pricey kitchens, cars, flat-screens or pricey schools…not when there are less expensive choices available that can achieve the same thing. </p>
<p>*My brothers and husband all hire engineers for major companies. The difference in salaries between the MIT/Cal Tech hires and the state school hires (with good engineering) is SMALL. Seriously NOT WORTH big debt.</p>
<p>And we all know starting salary is the end all reason for choosing a school. 
*</p>
<p>LOL And within several years…those who are the performers are making the most money…no matter WHERE they went to college. </p>
<p>Frankly, what some do is go to a less expensive (but good in Engineering) school for undergrad, and then get their grad degrees from “name” schools on someone else’s dollar. Who is even going to care in the least that your undergrad engineering degree is from - say CSULB - when your grad degree is from a name school?</p>
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<p>Exactly. The answer to such a generic question is “it depends”.</p>
<p>$25000 debt to go to MIT as opposed to unknown flagship State U (there are 50 states, not all flagships are that well known and in States like California, there are several top state U’s) may be worth it. Or it may not be worth it. OP needs to be specific. A generic question will get a generic answer. A focused question with all details, will get you a better answer.</p>
<p>“Who is even going to care in the least that your undergrad engineering degree is from - say CSULB - when your grad degree is from a name school?”</p>
<p>But, one has no way of knowing where one will be accepted for grad school; while one will know what the options are for undergrad. DH got his SB (in engineering) from a “name” school. He went on to get his PhD from a UC because he was able to do it while working. (He has had four jobs since he got the SB; two in industry and two in academia. Every person who hired him was a graduate of his “name” school, both in CA and in the east (so it was not a case of regional bias). )</p>
<p>I have to laugh at the notion that Harvard is worth big debt. Some of their undergraduate courses are huge and taught by TA’s. I’ve met a Harvard grad who was so stuck on herself that she truly could not function in most social circles. </p>
<p>Please, all, keep in mind how the world’s economic landscape has changed over the last two years. A graduate in 2007 with a name brand degree and a big debt load had a real hope of landing a well paying job to deal with that debt. But in 2010? Right now (and for the near future) it seems very, very wise to keep debt loads to a minimum. Not only may there not be a job that pays well . . . there may not be a job, period. </p>
<p>A college (of what ever “tier”) that has strong internship opportunities might hold a brighter future than any well known bumper sticker school. </p>
<p>A few years ago “math or science” was a hot ticket. As the economy has tanked, these majors are starting to bulge and we may see an overflow of candidates in these fields – including engineering. A neighbor is a chemist and he brought over a journal that described the current hiring picture for chemists: kinda ugly and not forecasted to improve soon. </p>
<p>Big student debt is so “00’s”. Slim is the new “in” IMHO.</p>
<p>" I’ve met a Harvard grad who was so stuck on herself that she truly could not function in most social circles. "</p>
<p>And you think that the result of her Harvard education?</p>
<p>^I doubt her Harvard education was the cause of the self-adhesion. But it’s true that the Ivies, and Harvard in particular, will tend to have a strong attraction for the chronically self-adhered. That’s no knock on the university or the many sensible and reasonably humble human beings who study and teach there; it’s just a fact of life.</p>
<p>Nightchef, you should move to my neighborhood, where the “chronically self-adhered” tend to come from our state’s flagship and local CC. If it wasn’t invented here it’s probably not worth what you paid for it. A neighbor recently commented on a mutual acquaintance who is getting chemo at Sloan Kettering “As if you can’t get Chemo at ABC hospital down the street! Imagine commuting for chemo!”</p>
<p>Like someone is crossing the state border to buy a gallon of milk! All I could say was, “Gee, every cancer is different and all we can do is pray her medical team is on top of it”.</p>
<p>So the chronically self-adhered live among us regardless of where or if they went to college.</p>
<p>"I’ve met a Harvard grad who was so stuck on herself that she truly could not function in most social circles. "</p>
<p>If I were to post an unflattering anecdote about a stereotypical State U grad, with the implication that A. it charecterized most State U grads, and B. Was at all relevant</p>
<p>I would be toast here, and rightfully so. </p>
<p>Really this topic is poison.</p>