Debt: The Silent Killer

[lskinner]

<p>

A couch-surfer doesn’t need to support a family, agreed?

</p>

<p>I agree, and we were talking about 2 separate issues.</p>

<p>First, since you were singing the praises of the couch-surfer lifestyle, I pointed out that you can live that lifestyle as a law school graduate simply by defaulting on your debt, even without the benefit of the Yale loan repayment program.</p>

<p>Second, I also pointed out that it would be more difficult to sustain a middle class lifestyle in the suburbs having gone to Harvard or Yale Law School even with the benefit of the loan repayment program.</p>

<p>You decided to pretend that I was confusing these two separate issues, apparently in order to distract from your own weaseling.</p>

<p>Sorry, but I do not engage with people who engage in these sorts of tactics. </p>

<p>Bye.</p>

[Americanski]

<p>

Even if you were a “fake” FT student, you would still have more study time than somebody who actually is indeed studying part-time, and hence, should be earning higher law-school grades.

</p>

<p>And that was exactly my point. If you try to work your way through law school, you’ll be competing with people who are studying all day (despite being in the PT program), which means they’ll probably have better grades than you. This will hurt your future earning potential, probably well in excess of whatever you were able to avoid borrowing by working.</p>

<p>

Let me provide some examples

</p>

<p>How about some examples of jobs that are actually available to more than a tiny percentage of law students? An out-of-shape humanities major (which describes a lot of law students) can’t become a personal trainer or IT guy. Most of the jobs they could get wouldn’t allow them to take the entire summer off, and they’re unlikely to be re-hired, since they’re obviously going to leave in a few months.</p>

[UKdude84]

<p>I finished my UG and MA combined with about £20k debt, so $30,000. I am concerned at my debt levels, you lads and lasses have it tough.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

First, since you were singing the praises of the couch-surfer lifestyle, I pointed out that you can live that lifestyle as a law school graduate simply by defaulting on your debt, even without the benefit of the Yale loan repayment program.

</p>

<p>Sure, but why do so, and damage your credit rating, when you can simply take advantage of the LRPP instead? Certainly, I can agree that some people don’t care about their credit rating, but other people obviously do. </p>

<p>

Second, I also pointed out that it would be more difficult to sustain a middle class lifestyle in the suburbs having gone to Harvard or Yale Law School even with the benefit of the loan repayment program.

</p>

<p>But so what? The truth is, you’re still far better off than most regular people. Let’s face it - the average suburban lifestyle is difficult for most people to sustain reliably. </p>

<p>I think we can agree that most HLS or YLS graduates can surely find a laid-back law job that pays $40-60k a year, and that fact alone already makes them better off than the average American. Sure, both of them may have difficulty sustaining a middle-class suburban lifestyle. But the HLS/YLS grad can nevertheless enjoy a relaxed lifestyle, whereas the average American can’t even do that. </p>

<p>

And that was exactly my point. If you try to work your way through law school, you’ll be competing with people who are studying all day (despite being in the PT program), which means they’ll probably have better grades than you. This will hurt your future earning potential, probably well in excess of whatever you were able to avoid borrowing by working.

</p>

<p>Actually, that is precisely my point. Many (probably most) PT law students will be working throughout the day. Hence, because grades are usually based on curves, you will be no worse than any of them. </p>

<p>

How about some examples of jobs that are actually available to more than a tiny percentage of law students? An out-of-shape humanities major (which describes a lot of law students) can’t become a personal trainer or IT guy.

</p>

<p>That’s highly ironic, considering the, frankly, out-of-shape personal trainers I’ve known, and especially the out-of-shape IT workers I’ve known. Heck, frankly, it’s rare to find an IT worker who isn’t out of shape. </p>

<p>And, frankly, it isn’t that hard to obtain a low-level IT job. There are people who are dropped out of high school who work in IT, and even some high school students work in IT part-time. Surely, somebody who can win admission to YLS or HLS can obtain those types of jobs without significant difficulty. They really aren’t that complicated. Seriously, if you’re a YLS student, you obviously know how to learn and process information rapidly, so it really take you that long to read a few IT books, which are readily obtainable in your local bookstore. </p>

<p>Otherwise, what are you saying? A high school drop-out can obtain an IT job, but you, as an YLS student, can’t? Really? Seriously, come on. Trust me, those jobs are really not that hard at the lower-end. Granted, IT jobs can become extremely complicated at the high-end, but you’re not interested in that. You’re just interested in a low-end IT job, whose responsibilities don’t change much.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>

@sakky

. . .

</p>

<p>I no longer engage with this poster.</p>

[PimpDaddy1]

<p>I’m not going to stumble through this thread but I don’t think any school outside of HYS is worth full-sticker, especially in this economy. I saw someone say you should take Columbia over a full-ride Georgetown and I think thats just false. Full-rides are pretty much risk-free and nothing is guaranteed in this economy, avoid debt as much as you can. </p>

<p>I almost regret turning down huge scholarships at Columbia/Chicago for HYS and I can’t imagine justify turning down money for a non-HYS school.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

I no longer engage with this poster.

</p>

<p>Ironic that you choose to respond to my post saying that you don’t want to respond to my posts. </p>

<p>Look, my point stands: those who enter debt to graduate from HLS and YLS have perfectly respectable exit opportunities simply by fully leveraging the schools’ LRPP’s. Granted, they’re not the best opportunities. But they’re not bad. Let’s face it: it’s not that hard for a HLS or YLS grad to find a laid-back law position if they only want to be paid $40k a year. Believe me, plenty of Americans would love to have a laid-back job that paid them $40k a year. Many of them have jobs which force them to bust their tails, yet still don’t pay $40k a year. </p>

<p>It has been contended that it is difficult to support a family on only $40k a year. Sure, but plenty of Americans do precisely that. Last time I checked, American families where the breadwinner was making $40k a year weren’t consigned to starvation and homelessness. The lifestyle is surely frugal, but they’re hardly consigned to poverty. If they can do it, why can’t you? </p>

<p>Which gets to a key point I’ve been making throughout this thread: the average American doesn’t make much money. However penurious you may think a $40k salary may be, you’re still going to be better off than many Americans.</p>

[zaprowsdower]

<p>

If they can do it, why can’t you?

</p>

<p>The question is, why should you? Disappointment is relative; the average American doesn’t have a college degree, let alone a law degree, let alone a JD from Harvard or Yale. Why should someone who does be content to live the life of a junior college dropout?</p>

[sakky]

<p>

The question is, why should you?

</p>

<p>Uh, no, that’s not the question. The question isn’t why should you, because I never said you should. Obviously those who can make high incomes doing what they like should do exactly that. </p>

<p>The question is indeed, why can’t you? It’s not that bad to live the life of an average American. Billions of poor people around the world would like to enjoy that kind of lifestyle. Put another way, HLS and YLS provide students with a quite livable escape hatch: if they can’t find a high-paying corporate law job - or even if they can, but find that lifestyle unbearable - they can revert to living the life of an average American without having to pay a dime of law school debt. Sure, that’s not the best lifestyle in the world, but it’s not bad either. </p>

<p>

Why should someone who does be content to live the life of a junior college dropout?

</p>

<p>No, you’ll be living far better than that. Like I said, the average American has to bust his rear end to make $40k a year, yet a HLS or YLS grad can surely find a highly laid-back law position that will pay them them that salary, where you may not even really have to put in 40 hours of work a week. As I explained, there are probably some law firms who would pay $40k a year just to be able to say that they have a HLS/YLS graduate on staff, and any work you actually complete is a bonus. </p>

<p>And besides, it is precisely that sort of mentality that only reinforces the materialistic stereotypes of modern-day law students. Why does a law career have to be solely about making money and living large? Aren’t there supposed to be plenty of people pursuing attending law school - even HLS/YLS - to fight for goals that have nothing to do with money? Assistant District Attorneys in Boston, which surely some HLS grads aspire to become, were paid a starting salary of only $35k in 2006. Most nonprofits pay conspicuously low starting salaries to newly hired lawyers. They seem to be content living the life lifestyle - at least financially - of, as you put it, a “junior college dropout”. </p>

<p>The starting salary for assistant district attorneys is $35,000</p>

<p>[Prosecutors</a> moonlight to make ends meet - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/04/22/prosecutors_moonlight_to_make_ends_meet/]Prosecutors”>http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/04/22/prosecutors_moonlight_to_make_ends_meet/)</p>

<p>Perhaps you would like to tell them that they should not be content with their small paychecks, and all of them should quit to work for BIGLAW?</p>

[zaprowsdower]

<p>

Sure, that’s not the best lifestyle in the world, but it’s not bad either.

</p>

<p>But it’s pretty disappointing, right? It’s tough to think they wouldn’t feel like they’d just wasted three years of their lives since, really, they had.</p>

<p>

yet a HLS or YLS grad can surely find a highly laid-back law position that will pay them them that salary,

</p>

<p>Not really, but you’ve chosen to ignore people who actually know what they’re talking about when they tell you that this isn’t true.</p>

<p>

Perhaps you would like to tell them that they should not be content with their small paychecks, and all of them should quit to work for BIGLAW?

</p>

<p>Well, no, because you’re the one who thinks an HLS grad should be perfectly content to do menial work for little pay. In fact, you think they should be content to do literally nothing in exchange for the use of their school in marketing, an arrangement that has almost certainly never existed in reality.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

But it’s pretty disappointing, right? It’s tough to think they wouldn’t feel like they’d just wasted three years of their lives since, really, they had.

</p>

<p>Are the Boston ADA’s making $35k wasting their educations.</p>

<p>

Not really, but you’ve chosen to ignore people who actually know what they’re talking about when they tell you that this isn’t true.

</p>

<p>No, not really, because they don’t know what they’re talking about. Again, when even a college dropout who learns basic IT skills can earn $40k a year, it’s very hard to believe that HLS/YLS grad can’t find a laid-back law job can’t earn $40k a year. For those who disagree: tell me why not? </p>

<p>

Well, no, because you’re the one who thinks an HLS grad should be perfectly content to do menial work for little pay.

</p>

<p>When did I ever say that they should be “perfectly content” with the arrangement? I simply said that it’s not that bad. Obviously, everybody would like more. But if that’s all you can get, it’s not that bad. </p>

<p>

In fact, you think they should be content to do literally nothing in exchange for the use of their school in marketing, an arrangement that has almost certainly never existed in reality.

</p>

<p>I’m quite certain it does exist in reality. After all, companies pay large sums of money for far less effective marketing. As an analogy, I can think of quite a number of IT companies who will pay large sums of money simply to “rent” people with certain IT certifications which are far easier to obtain than a HLS/YLS diploma. </p>

<p>Like I always said, if truly, you can’t find anything else, you can always resort to simply working for an admissions consulting firm that advises students on how to win admission to HLS/YLS. I think we can all agree that there are plenty of people willing to pay small fortunes for advice on how to be admitted to those schools. But those positions are obviously only available to those people who themselves graduated from HLS/YLS.</p>

[zaprowsdower]

<p>

Are the Boston ADA’s making $35k wasting their educations.

</p>

<p>Can you perceive any difference between being an ADA in a major city and doing menial work for a small-time firm?</p>

<p>

Again, when even a college dropout who learns basic IT skills can earn $40k a year

</p>

<p>LOL, I hope you will let the millions of unemployed Americans know that they can walk into a $40K job as long as they pick up some basic IT skills.</p>

<p>

After all, companies pay large sums of money for far less effective marketing.

</p>

<p>Except it’s not effective, and small firms don’t spend $40K on marketing, anyway. If they really thought this was effective, they could just spend far less money to take some courses from the Harvard Extension School and call themselves “Harvard-educated”. What exactly leads you to believe that this is so effective, anyway?</p>

[sakky]

<p>

Can you perceive any difference between being an ADA in a major city and doing menial work for a small-time firm?

</p>

<p>Look, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying it’s a great lifestyle. Certainly I would not choose that for myself. </p>

<p>What I am saying is that it’s not that bad. Sure, you’re doing menial work for a small-time law firm. You’re still better off than are most Americans. Let’s face it: most Americans don’t live particularly well. </p>

<p>

LOL, I hope you will let the millions of unemployed Americans know that they can walk into a $40K job as long as they pick up some basic IT skills.

</p>

<p>Well, to be perfectly honest, they can. Granted, it’s more than simply ‘walking into’ a $40k job. The skills take time to acquire. You need to develop some experience.</p>

<p>But again, you’re a HLS/YLS graduate, which should mean that you’re a far faster learner than is the average American. Otherwise, the average American can also be admitted to HLS/YLS, which is clearly not the case. If the average American can pick up IT skills, you should too. </p>

<p>

Except it’s not effective, and small firms don’t spend $40K on marketing, anyway.

</p>

<p>Come on, use your creativity. I never said firms would spend $40k on just marketing. You would be doing legal work for them too. The marketing therefore simply becomes a bonus. </p>

<p>Again, I ask: do you honestly think it so difficult for a HLS/YLS graduate to find a laid-back job at a mediocre law firm that pays only $40k a year? To reiterate, I agree that this is not the most desired solution. Obviously everybody wants to do better than that. But as a worst case scenario, it’s not a bad fallback. Plenty of Americans bust their rear ends while making less than that, yet they’re still able to put food on the table. </p>

<p>

If they really thought this was effective, they could just spend far less money to take some courses from the Harvard Extension School and call themselves “Harvard-educated”.

</p>

<p>I suspect some already do. See below.<br>

What exactly leads you to believe that this is so effective, anyway?

</p>

<p>Let’s see: how about all of the law firms who do so already?. </p>

<p>Don’t YOU deserve a Harvard Lawyer?</p>

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<p>Evidently, these firms seem to think that such credentials marketing works, otherwise they wouldn’t be touting it so gaudily. Are they all just being stupid?</p>

<p>Frankly, I find the defeatism within this entire thread to be striking and sad. As a point of comparison, graduates at the 25th percentile from Southwestern Law School - an average law school at best - and who choose private practice make over $60k a year. Even the lowest paid SW graduate made $45k a year. And you, as a HLS/YLS grad, can’t even find a job that pays $40k? Come on. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/careerservices/gradreport09.pdf[/url]”>http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/careerservices/gradreport09.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[sakky]

<p>

Frankly, I find the defeatism within this entire thread to be striking and sad. As a point of comparison, graduates at the 25th percentile from Southwestern Law School - an average law school at best - and who choose private practice make over $60k a year. Even the lowest paid SW graduate made $45k a year. And you, as a HLS/YLS grad, can’t even find a job that pays $40k? Come on.

</p>

<p>To emphasize this point, consider the Thomas Jefferson School of Law, a 4th tier law school without question. Yet even the graduates of TJSL who join law firms earn an average starting salary of $62k and those joining businesses earn 90k. Yet you - as a HLS/YLS grad - aren’t able to find a law job paying $40k? </p>

<p>[Employment</a> Statistics | Thomas Jefferson School of Law](<a href=“http://www.tjsl.edu/employment_statistics]Employment”>Homepage - Thomas Jefferson School of Law)</p>

[parentstwo]

<p>No to take away from Sakky’s larger point , but it is worth noting that salary figures such as these are often suspect. They only reflect the feedback of graduates who actually fill out a survey giving their salary. If someone is not working or couldn’t find the job they wanted, they are much more likely not to fill out the survey.</p>

[zaprowsdower]

<p>

What I am saying is that it’s not that bad.

</p>

<p>And what I am saying is that “not that bad” is relative. Compared to a starving Ethiopian child, a homeless man in NYC lives like a king. Compared to the average HLS grad, somebody making $40K for some ambulance chaser is doing really poorly.</p>

<p>

Well, to be perfectly honest, they can.

</p>

<p>Link?</p>

<p>

Granted, it’s more than simply ‘walking into’ a $40k job. The skills take time to acquire. You need to develop some experience.

</p>

<p>In other words, it’s not really anything like “picking up some basic IT skills” and simply being handed a $40K job.</p>

<p>

Evidently, these firms seem to think that such credentials marketing works

</p>

<p>Except there’s no proof that it actually does. Are any of those firms using the “marketing” arrangement you proposed? It sure doesn’t look like it. I doubt that touting HLS credentials they already have would hurt them, but I see no proof that it’s doing much for them, either. Here are five small firms with HLS (and some YLS) partners that don’t use their credentials as a major selling point:</p>

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<p>Are they just too stupid to realize that they’re sitting on a gold mine?</p>

<p>

Again, I ask: do you honestly think it so difficult for a HLS/YLS graduate to find a laid-back job at a mediocre law firm that pays only $40k a year?

</p>

<p>Of course. Their credentials can actually work against them, since mediocre firms will know that they’re less likely to stay than TTT grads, both because they’ll have other options and because they’ll probably be less satisfied with the work. Associate jobs at ID or PI firms are usually far from “laid-back”, despite the low pay. The partners at these firms often make less than biglaw associates; $40K is a significant amount of money for them, and they’re not going to give it to somebody who doesn’t want to work hard. </p>

<p>

I never said firms would spend $40k on just marketing. You would be doing legal work for them too. The marketing therefore simply becomes a bonus.

</p>

<p>I thought they were paying for the marketing benefit and any work you did would be a bonus? That’s what you said in post 189. Which is it?</p>

<p>

Frankly, I find the defeatism within this entire thread to be striking and sad.

</p>

<p>What’s more defeatist than suggesting somebody with an HLS JD should be perfectly content to make $40K doing menial work?</p>

<p>

As a point of comparison, graduates at the 25th percentile from Southwestern Law School - an average law school at best - and who choose private practice make over $60k a year. Even the lowest paid SW graduate made $45k a year.

</p>

<p>These stats are almost certainly inaccurate. With no indication how many students reported salary data, the numbers don’t mean anything. Considering the majority of SMU grads who end up at firms end up at very small ones, I’m about 100% confident some are making less than $45K. And, obviously, the less-successful grads are less likely to report salary data.</p>

[Patriot1208]

<p>parentstwo is being generous, it is widely thought that MANY of these lower tier law schools simply lie about their employment prospects, and at best they are misleading. Your naivety with employment prospects is a little surprising sakky.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

And what I am saying is that “not that bad” is relative. Compared to a starving Ethiopian child, a homeless man in NYC lives like a king. Compared to the average HLS grad, somebody making $40K for some ambulance chaser is doing really poorly.

</p>

<p>But he’s still living quite well compared to the average American. That’s the point. </p>

<p>

Link?

</p>

<p>See my past posts. </p>

<p>

In other words, it’s not really anything like “picking up some basic IT skills” and simply being handed a $40K job.

</p>

<p>Of course it’s not a matter of just picking up some basic IT skills and then being handed a $40k a year job on the spot. It might then take a few years of experience to be making that sort of salary as an IT worker. </p>

<p>On the other hand, you just spent 3 years in law school. Somebody with basic IT skills and 3 years of experience probably does indeed make $40k a year, and often times far more than that. </p>

<p>

Except there’s no proof that it actually does.

</p>

<p>It doesn’t matter whether it actually works or not…it only matters whether some law firms think it works. Plenty of companies waste plenty of money on failed marketing expenditures, and the advertisers aren’t giving any of that money back. </p>

<p>

Are any of those firms using the “marketing” arrangement you proposed? It sure doesn’t look like it.

</p>

<p>Uh, well, those firms aren’t doing so because they don’t have to; as they already have the YLS/HLS lawyer on staff. On the other hand, most law firms don’t. Some of them would surely pay to do so. </p>

<p>

I doubt that touting HLS credentials they already have would hurt them, but I see no proof that it’s doing much for them, either.

</p>

<p>Again, it doesn’t matter whether it actually works or not, only that they think it works. Otherwise, why would they promote their credentials so prominently? </p>

<p>

Here are five small firms with HLS (and some YLS) partners that don’t use their credentials as a major selling point:</p>

<p>GCG | Attorneys</p>

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<p>Are they just too stupid to realize that they’re sitting on a gold mine?

</p>

<p>That doesn’t matter, for all you need to do is find one law firm who believes that such marketing might work. What the other law firms do doesn’t matter to you. </p>

<p>

I thought they were paying for the marketing benefit and any work you did would be a bonus? That’s what you said in post 189. Which is it?

</p>

<p>They are receiving the marketing bonus, and also receiving whatever work you would do. That package could be easily sold for more than $40k a year. </p>

<p>

What’s more defeatist than suggesting somebody with an HLS JD should be perfectly content to make $40K doing menial work?

</p>

<p>What’s more defeatist? How about the attitude that somebody at HLS can’t even find such a job at all? Otherwise, you must concede that such a grad could in fact find such a job. Would it be an optimal outcome? No, and I never said it was. What I am saying is that he could do it. </p>

<p>

These stats are almost certainly inaccurate. With no indication how many students reported salary data, the numbers don’t mean anything. Considering the majority of SMU grads who end up at firms end up at very small ones, I’m about 100% confident some are making less than $45K. And, obviously, the less-successful grads are less likely to report salary data.

</p>

<p>

it is widely thought that MANY of these lower tier law schools simply lie about their employment prospects, and at best they are misleading. Your naivety with employment prospects is a little surprising sakky.

</p>

<p>I agree that there are problems with missing data, probably on the lower-end of the salary spectrum. </p>

<p>But on the other hand, we are talking about low-tier law schools. The notion that a HLS/YLS grad can’t even match what the salaries of the graduates of a low-tier law school, even if the official salary figures are skewed - that is what I would call naive. </p>

<p>Let me pose the question simply: how many of you would continue to argue that a HLS/YLS grad is truly unable to find a laid-back law job that pays only $40k a year? If nobody is arguing this point, then my point is proven. Everything else is window dressing.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

And what I am saying is that “not that bad” is relative. Compared to a starving Ethiopian child, a homeless man in NYC lives like a king. Compared to the average HLS grad, somebody making $40K for some ambulance chaser is doing really poorly.

</p>

<p>Why it is particularly meaningful to compare an HLS grad to the average HLS grad? After all, compared to the average NBA player, those players being paid the minimum salary mandated by the NBA collective bargaining agreement are clearly doing far worse than the average NBA player who is paid over $5 million a year. But it’s hard to feel sorry for those players, as even a rookie in the NBA is mandated to make over $470k a year. Similarly, frankly, it’s not easy to feel sorry for the HLS grad who is relegated towards making “only” $40k a year, as he’s still better off than most Americans. </p>

<p>Your argument seems to stem purely from social psychology, in that the HLS graduate in question would feel a loss of social standing that his former schoolmates are doing better than he is. I agree that that would happen. </p>

<p>But that has nothing to do with his financial status. From a purely financial standpoint, HLS is a high percentage play because of the downside protection provided by the LIPP. During strong, or even average, economic times, a HLS graduate is highly likely to land a lucrative private sector position - perhaps not at a top firm, but at some private sector position. Even in the worst case scenario, he would retreat under the LIPP umbrella by assuming the aforementioned $40k job which I think we all agree a HLS graduate should be able to find (or does anybody still wish this argue this point?). </p>

<p>Again, nobody is arguing that having to take a $40k a year job as a HLS graduate is a desirable outcome. Nobody wants that to happen. However, that is the worst case scenario of a spectrum of potential outcomes, which means that the calculated bet seems to be favorable.</p>

<p>What matters in the context of this thread are the actual opportunities available to a particular person. I agree that a homeless man in NYC lives far better than a starving child in Ethiopia, but that inequity is enforced by the fact that the starving child has no opportunity to immigrate to New York, even to become homeless. On the other hand, a college senior who is admitted to HLS should probably go, depending on what other opportunities he has available, which may not be plentiful. After all, let’s face it, there aren’t exactly a lot of enriching job opportunities for new college graduates right now. By attending HLS, he provides himself with an opportunity to land a high-paid private sector law position, and even in the worst case scenario, he simply takes a $40k low-end job…which, frankly, probably would not make him much worse off than if he had never gone to law school at all.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

These stats are almost certainly inaccurate. With no indication how many students reported salary data, the numbers don’t mean anything. Considering the majority of SMU grads who end up at firms end up at very small ones, I’m about 100% confident some are making less than $45K. And, obviously, the less-successful grads are less likely to report salary data.

</p>

<p>

parentstwo is being generous, it is widely thought that MANY of these lower tier law schools simply lie about their employment prospects, and at best they are misleading. Your naivety with employment prospects is a little surprising sakky.

</p>

<p>Then let me put it this way. The Department of Labor reports that the median lawyer, 9 months after graduation, earns $68.5k a year, with private practice lawyers with that level of experience earning a whopping $108.5k a year. While I can agree that there may be misleading data within the websites of individual law schools, surely you would not accuse the government of posting deliberately misleading data? </p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#earnings]Lawyers[/url”>http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#earnings]Lawyers[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Hence, I ask again, if the median private practice lawyer from the entire gamut of law schools with merely 9 months of experience nevertheless makes 6 figures, why is the notion that a HLS graduate finding a laid-back job paying only $40k so outrageous?</p>