@SculptorDad And they consider science majors at Skidmore which may be a unicorn. @NEPatsGirl 's daughter was accepted as such and they have an agenda to bolster that program. She received a very good fun aid package and NePatsGirl’s DD also having a great opportunity to study abroad in Budapest. They probably looked at 20 LACs and colleges in NE. Saratoga Springs is a nice area.
@gearmom, Coincidentally, It was recommended today at my another group. I will look into it carefully. Thanks.
we get it; your D wants to showcase an EC and art is one of her ECs. cool! i think it shows another dimension to her. I think some of the other posters have it right; have an art supplement ready to go from past projects or from a class or two in HS. I’d only encourage AP art and its demanding full portfolio if she has the time and interest. Maybe she could work on some community pieces or such. Or a broad range of her work; it doesnt have to be a set portfolio like AP art.
Like many others here, my D took AP art her senior year; started working on projects her junior year. It is a lot of work and quite time consuming. She ended up doing nothing with her portfolio as she’s not majoring in art; but still LOVES it. She really liked the time spent in her art classes; it offset the other more academic classes.
If she isn’t applying to art school (BFA) but is applying to universities or colleges for a BA or BS, she does not need a full portfolio. She can submit a few works with a resume. However, the works should not be from middle school and should be within the last year or two I would think (ask).
Any art supplement will help with admission if talent is sufficient.
You said her art is “classical.” Maybe she would enjoy doing some abstract work, mixed media or collage. For fun.
If I were you- and I’m not- I would put my foot down with this hyperintense focusing on one thing at a time. There is no need to take science outside of school if AP’s are offered, or in the summer for that matter. There is plenty of time to do science.
If her science is making her too busy to do art or EC’s or whatever else might contribute to a balance life- including relaxing- there is something wrong with the picture.
I know we all say let the kid do what she wants etc. etc. but this is a case where intervention might be needed.
I know you are a devoted parent and care a lot so please take my comments in that context. And of course we don’t know you or your daughter and are just writing on an online forum 
I don’t think she needs an art school type portfolio either if she’s not going to art school. I think that something a little less thorough will be fine. - that’s what I was thinking of when I said what she’d got now would be good enough. But again, she’s only a sophomore. She’s got lots of time.
My younger son is not an artist (though he actually really enjoys digital painting too!) He spent a lot of time making origami earrings junior year. Vassar gave students (that year at least) the opportunity to send something creative in so he sent in a pair of earrings. He sold them at local galleries and art shows.
My older son is the world’s most introverted kid. I made him volunteer at the senior center one summer. He helped out in the computer lab - mostly showing people how to double click and use their e-mail. Speaking as an introvert myself - it’s good to get out of your comfort zone from time to time. There are many ways to volunteer and not all of them involve being gregarious.
It’s a delicate balance both letting kids be kids, explore what they want to, and make sure that they aren’t too hyperfocused or too scattered. I had two kids who were completely different. Not sure we got the balance right on either of them, but they are now productive members of society - so I guess we did okay!
Why would a non-art major ever submit a portfolio for college admissions?
Does your daughter understand that, except for art BFA programs, most colleges would not be interested in seeing a portfolio. As @compmom and @My3Kiddos point out, there is a huge difference between an arts supplement and a portfolio. There would be no need for extensive prep for a supplement – if she was still interested in art then she could include one or two samples of her best recent work. If she is doing art, there will be work to show. As a non-art major applying to a LAC, no one is going to be evaluating the art work in a competitive setting – it would just be a way of rounding out the application and showing something more of herself.
Or is the problem really that she is undecided and wants to still keep the potential of applying to a strong visual arts program open as a possibility?
It won’t.
College admissions is all about the college selecting the students that best meet ITS needs. Sports or instruments add value to colleges because they are bringing in students who can play on their teams or in their orchestras. But an EC, hobby or passion that is essentially a solitary endeavor (rather than team or groups based) – doesn’t bring that added value to a college. Sure, colleges have art exhibits from time to time, but it really doesn’t make a difference what array of artistic talent they have.
That is very bad advice.
I would suggest that you stop consulting with college advisors for now because you are talking to the wrong advisors who want to “package” your daughter, and that is bad for your daughter and probably bad in the long run for getting into colleges. Your daughter is a smart and talented young woman who will be able to get into colleges based on her genuine talents and interests. As far as getting accepted, strength in STEM areas is more of a bonus point for women applicants than strength in arts and humanities, especially at LAC’s.
^ huge difference between an arts supplement and a portfolio.
I was confused. Thanks for pointing it out. I think I meant an art supplement with quality of a portfolio.
^ wants to still keep the potential of applying to a strong visual arts program open as a possibility?
That will be lovely. But no.
^ solitary endeavor (rather than team or groups based) – doesn’t bring that added value to a college.
We have learned that in her high school admission. Still hoping that colleges would be able to support arts more for the sake of diversity.
^ That is very bad advice.
Wholeheartedly agree.
^ you are talking to the wrong advisors who want to “package” your daughter, and that is bad
Very bad. We are not talking to them any longer. Nonetheless, their tactic seem to bring some short term result.
^ strength in STEM areas is more of a bonus point for women applicants
That’s an encouragement.
@calmom but not all students that have a significant EC in sports or music pursue that as a major or intention in college and these ECs still help the application to show that the student is not all academics. Same with OP’s daughter.
OP, arts have been and will likely continue to be a big part of your D’s interests. Showing her lifelong passion for art in her application is just a matter or including it as an EC, talking about it in essays and maybe showing it in a supplement. Likely, recommendations will also mention it. It’s a great EC.
I would strongly discourage her from taking more CC courses in the summer. She should get out of her comfort zone a bit.
OP,
Sharing my middle son’s experience, as it might be helpful.
He was not going to be a music major at all, but cello was his biggest EC by far. He submitted a music arts supplement to all schools that accepted them, along with a music resume and letter of recommendation.
He had never taken an art class, but did take two semesters of animation and had dozens of notebooks full of “creatures”, sketches for his video games that he wanted to make. He chose to submit a very weak visual arts supplement to about five schools where he was applying as either a fine arts major or an animation major.
He was not a terribly strong applicant, though he had a good SAT, good grades (but he had three Bs in community college classes) and fairly weak rigor.
Still, he got into many good colleges including Penn as a Fine Arts major, Northeastern as an animation major, UCSD as an ICAM major, UCI as a Computer Game Science major, and U Rochester as (I forget what major, but something kind of creative). He got a 17K music scholarship at U Rochester. He didn’t get the music scholarship at Northeastern.
Don’t contrive this, but let her work on art as she wants to. If she produces some lovely pieces in the next two years, she can submit a portfolio; she doesn’t need to take AP Art.
As a college consultant, I recommend students only submit arts supplements that are the very best; otherwise, a less-than-stellar supplement can count against a student at places such as Stanford or Yale. LACs typically are a little more flexible, but be on the look out for ones that require an arts resume and art teacher recommendation.
If she wants to do it, look at specific schools’ policies on arts supplements and plan accordingly.
I’m not so sure that taking an AP Art course, if she wants to do that, would be such a significant drain on her time as some people are suggesting.
My kid took AP 2-D Art during her senior year and she rarely, if ever, worked on any of her portfolio pieces outside of her AP art class period. She managed to score a 4 on it. Her style of art is very detailed, but she can complete pieces relatively quickly with the medium she uses. In any case, her academics didn’t suffer, nor did anything else (her other EC’s or free time). In fact, art probably took the least amount of time than any of her other EC’s which were a sport (huge time commitment outside of school) and school choir (less than her sport, but still a considerable time sink). She didn’t get to submit her AP portfolio with her college application since she took the class as a senior - and she actually never even considered submitting her available artwork - just didn’t realize that was a thing for non-art majors. But she did list her membership in the National Art Honor Society on it (she’d taken regular art her junior year and the art instructor recognized her talent).
She also received a full tuition scholarship offer based on her “arty” interests from a lower ranked LAC even though she was not applying as an art major. She didn’t even apply for the scholarship - the school evaluated her application and told her she was selected to compete for one of their endowed scholarships that was specifically for students with creative talents. She got the scholarship offer after accepting the invitation to attend the school’s scholarship weekend and showing the interview committee some of her creative high school work - which included a graphic novel about Hamlet that she had made for an AP English Lit assignment.
So I agree with the OP that art doesn’t have to correlate in some way with her academic strengths in order to be a good EC. Colleges want to see an applicant’s talents and interests and the OP’s daughter seems to have an impressive talent that would be worth showcasing. I think it’s a good thing to flaunt what you’ve got. We were very surprised at how that worked out for our daughter (who was also awarded a diversity scholarship at highly ranked LAC - even though she is an over represented minority - but the school is in a remote location in mid-America where her ethnicity isn’t well represented).
That’s fine, but she doesn’t need an art portfolio to show that. The point is she is not competing for admission as an art major to an arts school-- so no one is going to be evaluating the quality of her art in making an admissions decision.
The dad says they need financial aid for a private LAC and from his posts it sounds like they will want merit money – and that means that the daughter would likely be focusing on LAC’s that give merit money to students, where the student is likely to be admitted in any case. For a prospective STEM major, GPA and test scores are going to be more important for merit money than art work.
“so no one is going to be evaluating the quality of her art in making an admissions decision.”
Probably not, but see my post above where my daughter was offered a full tuition scholarship out of the blue because I guess she mentioned in her application that she was a member of the National Art Honor Society - and possibly because she had listed AP Art in the senior schedule section. I really don’t know what she listed, but it got someone’s attention.
And she did not apply as an art major - or anything related to art.
Granted it was not a top 100 LAC, but I don’t think one can make any kind of blanket statement about what types of EC’s are going to be beneficial for applicants at any school.
I would be in favor of submitting an arts supplement, especially at small liberal arts colleges, even if your daughter ends up never taking a visual arts class. I see no down side to doing this and plenty of positives.
Involvement in the arts is a positive EC, and visual arts certainly qualifies even though it is a less organized activity than music, dance or theater. Basically, colleges, especially smaller ones, look for students who can contribute to the mix of the campus community. The STEM major who is also an artist, a musician or an actor is quite common at many highly selective schools.
From your description, she needs a serious EC and visual arts seems like a natural for her, so in my opinion, yes, at least to the significant time and effort part. She may be able to accomplish what’s needed without the AP studio art course, but having professional guidance would make assembling her work easier.
And yes, the quality of her art may well be evaluated for admissions decision. That is exactly the point of the art supplement! It is encouraged by many academically rigorous colleges, even though majors need not be determined until sometime in the sophomore year.
Whether you call it a supplement or a portfolio isn’t really the point, although admittedly applying to an all-purpose liberal arts focused school is a different process than applying to an art school or a BFA program at a university. Most colleges post instructions on their websites about their expectations.
Here’s what Williams, which you may know has excellent sciences, has to say:
And Amherst’s instructions:
And Pomona:
@LeastComplicated - I’m assuming that your daughter was doing or had done what she wanted to do, not what she thought might help with college admissions or a scholarship. The OP is basically asking whether a 10th grade who no longer wants to pursue art in the same way as she did when she was younger should enroll in courses or put effort into preparing a portfolio on the off chance that it might help .
Re your daughter:
It sounds like that particular school has an endowed scholarship specifically earmarked for students with artistic talent or interests - so it may well be that it was more of a process of the college wanting to find students that fit into the niche that they had money to award. So yes, having that art interest qualified her – but it’s quite likely that the reason she was invited was because her academic credentials were stronger than the other artsy students applying that year., rather than her artwork being more impressive. Whether she had submitted a portfolio or an arts supplement, or merely have written about her art in an essay might not have made a difference. So I think colleges may sometime identify the students who are academically strongest, and then look to see which of multiple earmarked scholarships they might qualify for.
If the OP’s daughter was now a senior doing college applications, with a still avid focus on art, and was asking whether or not is was worth the effort to put together a portfolio including her work over the past two years… my answer would be different.
But it seems that the OP is coming from a different place - he has a daughter who is very talented and was passionate about art in middle school; now the daughter’s interests are shifting and it seems a shame to let something like that go. But the bottom line is that the daughter’s interests are shifting as she matures – and part of supporting her may mean a willingness to let go and allow the daughter to shape her own interests. And to structure the college application in 2019 around the student she is then. I assume that a poster with the user name “SculptorDad” probably has a strong emotional investment in the art – I could have easily joined CC years ago and called myself “Dancemom” since there was a time when our lives revolved around dance classes and auditions and competitions and recitals, so I know how difficult it can be to let go - but kids grow and change, and parents need to help foster that growth.
@SculptorDad - can you clarify your financial situation? Would a college that provides full need-based aid be affordable? Or is your EFC high enough that your daughter would need significant merit aid to make a private LAC affordable? (A common problem for upper middle class families)
This is important because I think some of the advice you have been given is geared to competitive admissions at schools that offer little or no merit money. So when posters refer to Willams, Amherst, Pomona, Stanford, Yale, etc. – it may very well be that a perfect portfolio would be the tipping point for admission for a STEM major – those schools all offer generous need-based aid, but no merit money.
But if your daughter will need merit money, then the path to admissions and money is a different – your daughters will do best if she has very high stats (grades and test scores), so that she is at the upper end of the applicant pool for admission. And that’s what my posts have been targeted at – those are schools where your daughter’s admission is highly likely-- and that is where you are likely to get the most money if your daughter’s qualities fit what the college is looking for and needs. So if some college was trying to bolster its art department in the year your daughter applied – then a strong portfolio would certainly help – but I think you will find more colleges these days putting their money into their STEM offerings.
@calmom, Either aid will work. We would aim both the lower ranking LAC with significant merit aid for strong artist (or scientist), and the full need-based aid from the top LAC. Strong academics (including STEM) and art supplement may be needed by both of them. I don’t worry about her academics though.
^ “SculptorDad” probably has a strong emotional investment in the art
You guessed it right. How many 8 yo has fine motor skill to fold the tiny origami crane in my avatar, and would spend majority of time on sculpting always developing new ideas and techniques year after year? I have seen my fair share of prodigious kids with talent and passion in all other areas. But she has been unique in sculpting.
I agree with momrath that colleges are assembling an interesting mix for the entering class and an arts supplement can add to the impression that a particular applicant will enhance that mix.
However, it is not necessary to take AP Art if that is geared to portfolio or has a rigid curriculum or whatever. Every community has art classes: I would encourage a freer environment versus academic art classes. And an 8 year old may have incredible technique, but might lack the maturity for true originality. So art might be very different in later high school. But she should ONLY do art if she wants to, not for admissions.
The path of prodigy is often disappointing. Kids need to be protected from the pressures of precocious achievements. Doing art for fun without any attention from adults or relationship to admissions might be liberating for your daughter.
If I were a college admissions officer, and saw science classes in a private school, similar science classes at community college, and summer science classes, I would have serious concerns about this student. I do not think that doing all theses classes is going to help with admissions, and possibly the opposite. And the fact that this academic hyperfocus leaves no time for anything else is of real concern.
Remember that “character” is important for colleges. I wonder if your daughter could volunteer in her community. That can really broaden interests, make connections with a wider circle of people, and provide a lot of satisfaction for helping others. Perhaps she can channel some of her interests into service rather than achievement at times.
^ However, it is not necessary to take AP Art
That much seems very clear to me now.
^ But she should ONLY do art if she wants to, not for admissions.
That’s not inherently immoral and therefore my role ends with sharing detailed pros and cons. I stopped making decisions for her several years ago. Personally I am not sure if she should though. I feel there is a fine line for becoming naive here. People do a lot of things just for admission, such as taking standardized tests. It’s about balance and not principles.
^ Doing art for fun without any attention from adults or relationship to admissions might be liberating for your daughter.
It is and she does it with new medium. Not much to put on her art supplement though. It’s just for pure liberation.
^ I do not think that doing all theses (science) classes is going to help with admissions, and possibly the opposite.
I agree. But if she really wants to learn and enjoy it, then the consequence is is acceptable, and likely is also manageable. There might even be some colleges that will value it.
^ Remember that “character” is important for colleges.
I know. But some people are just introverted. They avoid service not because of selfishness but because it’s too stressful. Giving it up is a huge stress relief. There must be other ways to contribute to the community, eventually and not for just admission.
@SculptorDad I’ll just chime in here since my DD was mentioned as a Skidmore student. @gearmom is correct in saying that my D was provided a great finaid package in the school’s quest to build their STEM departments. Skidmore was chosen based on COA as no other school came close, even our state (safety) schools. We kept our fingers crossed that they could provide her with the classes she would want or need and that has certainly been the case. They have gone over and above to make sure she is getting the best education they can deliver to her. And, yes, after considerable effort, D was able to convince them to approve the AIT Budapest program for Software Engineers and Computer Science majors as her study abroad, by all accounts a highly regarded program among top LAC and Universities in the US. And the icing was her finaid package for the Budapest semester was even better than her Skidmore semesters. So far, so good. No buyer’s regret. She continues to put one foot in front of the other and tap into all the resources Skidmore offers.
@SculptorDad There are a lot of ways to volunteer solo. A charity run, a clothing or school supply drive that might just need an announcement at school. Yard work for elderly, volunteering for your local library or hospital. She could paint a mural for a local preschool. Plenty of things to do if she wants to. Animal shelters need people. Food pantries. Environmental clean ups. Many things could be done solo. Make holiday cards for elderly at assisted living homes. Make hand made birthday cards (blank) that the elderly can use for their families.