Decision input: Swarthmore vs. UChicago vs. Pomona

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>The thread title pretty much explains it. This is going to be an incredibly tough decision, and I need all the help I can get. I hope it's not excessive or obnoxious that I've posted this thread in all three forums; I'm interested in getting some balanced or at least equally biased input from various sources. Some useful information:</p>

<p>Prospective majors: Mathematics and Physics (but uncertain...also interested in Music, Philosophy, Art History, and Swat's Interpretation Theory minor)</p>

<p>I'm from a small college town (town's putting it strongly...village?) in upstate New York, so I know how miserable such an atmosphere can be. I was initially looking almost exclusively at urban universities [I EDed at Columbia (deferred --> rejected)], but Swarthmore's campus is beautiful and Philadelphia is, I hear, relatively accessible. I do love Chicago though, and the West Coast. </p>

<p>As is probably apparent from my college list finalists, I expect to work hard in college. If anyone has some unique insight into these colleges' social and academic atmospheres, especially compared to one another, I'd really appreciate your advice. </p>

<p>I'm sure there's some info that might be useful that I've neglected to include...just ask. Thanks for your advice.</p>

2

<p>AxelNofz,</p>

<p>Congrats on getting into Swat, Chicago, and Pomona! Each are very good schools (or so I hear). I will give you my totally biased Swarthmore first-year student opinion on your choices.</p>

<p>University of Chicago is actually in the city, which sounds like it would be a plus for you. I looked at Chicago during my college process, and, at least at one point, Swat and Chicago were at the top of my list. I understand your wanting to work hard, and both places would give you ample opportunity to do that.</p>

<p>The impression that I get about Pomona (again, totally subjective) from other Swatties is that its much easier than Swarthmore. I know someone who did a semester at Pomona (Swat has a domestic exchange program with them) junior year and it was their easiest semester. Not that you won’t work hard at Pomona, I just don’t think it is the same level of work as Chicago or Swarthmore.</p>

<p>You would definitely be able to do Math and Physics at Swat in addition to exploring classes in those other departments. The Math major at Swarthmore is 10 credits and the Physics major is basically the same (there are other courses required for it, but some are in math so you will already have those). This leaves a lot of open space in your schedule to explore other departments. It sounds like your interests will lend easily to meeting the division requirements at Swat. </p>

<p>A lot of the same can probably be said for Pomona. Chicago has their core curriculum, so I am not sure how that would lend itself to double majoring and exploring the departments you want to explore. </p>

<p>Philadelphia is easy to get to on the train. A regional rail stop is located right at the base of campus. While I only go to Philly occasionally, it is definitely nice to have easy access to a large city. While Philly is not as large of a city as Chicago, there is still plenty to do. And, once you want to leave the city, 25-30 minutes, you are back to the sprawling greens of Swarthmore.</p>

<p>You have probably heard the saying “where fun goes to die” when people talk about UChicago. While I do have a lot of work to do all the time at Swat, there is still time to get away from your work. There is definitely time to just decide to sit back and relax and enjoy time with your friends. While some days will be busier than others, I find that I can get away with taking a complete break from work on Friday nights and often Saturdays (if I don’t have other things going on). Sundays are always very busy, but if you plan ahead and work a lot Monday-Thursday, you will still be stressed sometimes although you at least took a break from your work for a day or two. Swatties are really chill and do still have fun at on-campus parties on the weekend (which are open to everyone) and just hanging out with friends. The work will overwhelm you sometimes, but it sounds like you are looking for this to happen (as I did). I really think it has turned out to be the perfect balance.</p>

<p>I hope that this answer will help you with your decision. Swarthmore is a really great place, and I would encourage you to come to Ride the Tide to experience more of the awesomeness. Good luck with your decision!</p>

3

<p>I agree with Pomona being more laid-back, both academically and socially, than Swat or Chicago. That probably translates to less work and breadth/depth in coverage, but not necessarily less intellectual rigor.</p>

<p>In terms of GenEd requirements, Swat and Pomona will both be very easy for someone with division-spanning interests. Chicago–well, you know about the Core already, and only you can decide whether it’s a plus or a minus. I personally came in as English/Computer Science double major with tons of other interests; I’m now hoping to major in Linguistics with two minors and some electives on top of that. SUch a program is logistically impossible at Chicago–but there’s definitely more opportunity for interdisciplinary (and classical/historical) study with the Core, so if that would satisfy you, then go for it. I wasn’t interested in four semesters of interdisciplinary science, and I wanted to get disciplinary exposure in lots of different departments.</p>

<p>I know people who go into Philadelphia every weekend, which is more problematic due to cost than due to scheduling–I think most people take long breaks from work on the weekends. It’s about $10 round-trip to take the train into the city.</p>

4

<p>Great post, you guys! Thanks for the info–esp regarding Swarthmore. D got into Carleton, Kenyon, Kalamazoo, Reed, Swarthmore & Seattle U. The first two schools are enclaves onto themselves. The latter are near metropolitan areas. (The last one was a safety & “too close” to home for D.) She does love Swat; we’ve called the school to ensure that they DID get all our financial aid docs–so we’re patiently waiting on this pkg during the interim (same for Reed).</p>

5

<p>thanks a ton!</p>

6

<p>i attended RTT last week and pomona’s admissions day on monday. i absolutely loved swarthmore. i was a little underwhelmed by pomona. the student body struck me as a bit singlemindedly nerdy, as opposed to swarthmore, where the student body was academically-driven but also politically-active and more deeply interested in a broad variety of cultural activities, global causes, etc. i was also a bit disappointed by pomona’s infrastructure. many classrooms (in particular the robert millikan lab building) seemed pretty run-down. i was told that this was largely because of a former president who was philosophically opposed to spending money on maintaining and improving facilities (saw it as purely cosmetic and wasteful). all this is not to say that pomona didn’t seem like a wonderful school with exceptionally nice people. these are really minute distinctions. </p>

<p>still, long story short, my decision at this point is swarthmore vs. chicago. i visit chicago this weekend.</p>

7

<p>Interesting perspective on Pomona, Axel.
What dorm did you stay in at Swat?</p>

8

<p>When you are visiting Chicago, I suggest that you ask folks about TAs. When we visited, the two student guides kept talking about how wonderful their TAs were. I asked what percentage of classes had TAs and they said 80%. Then I asked the admissions person because I was really stunned at that number. He said that TAs are selected through a competitive process and have to show an aptitude for undergraduate teaching (if they don’t they will be research assistants instead). The courses are not solely staffed by the TAs; rather, a TA functions a liaison between the professor and the students and helps the students. One class that my daughter visited had no TA; at the other class (biology), there were 12 students, a TA, and the professor. The professor talked for a few minutes but the class was led by the TA and the students interacted with him. His job was to “translate” the professor’s complex lecture. I still am surprised by all of this and wonder if TAs really are the pervasive presence at Chicago they seemed to by when we visited. You could check this out. At Swarthmore, my daughter has direct access to the professors. They are in the buildings evenings and weekends as well as during the day and she can run down the hall and ask them questions. Even though the science labs have lab instructors, the professors are frequently in the labs with the students. Her organic chemistry professor came to Thursday and Sunday evening study sessions (recitations) and worked with the students directly. I think Chicago may save its professors for the Ph.D. students; at Swarthmore, there aren’t any doctoral students competing for your professors’ attention. The professors’ sole focus are the undergraduates.</p>

9

<p>libartsmom,
My oldest son is a Swarthmore grad and now studying for his Ph.D. at Chicago. He has been a T.A. there for the past couple of years. The professors for the classes he has T.A.'d in (Political Science Dept.) give the lectures twice a week to the large group, and then the large group breaks down into smaller sections once a week (~22-30 students) for a discussion section lead by the T.A. The T.A. also maintains office hours and grades exams and papers. This quarter my son (he’s a 4th year Ph.D. candidate) is teaching his own course with a topic he developed. He has under 25 students in his seminar and is responsible for everything.</p>

<p>Although I am sure that he is a great T.A., :), having being educated as an undergrad at Swat, he would tell the OP to go to Swat for the academics.</p>

10

<p>Ride the Tide was run absolutely phenomenally. Swarthmore should really get props for doing such a great job. It made my decision for me.</p>

11

<p>This is great to hear, raiderade! My current Swat student hosted several prospies at RTT and is a Tour Guide. I’ll pass along your comments so that he can forward them on to the folks in Admissions.</p>

12

<p>Please do! Unlike other accepted students days, Swarthmore really gave me the ability to feel out what the current students were really like at Swarthmore. I was given a million opportunities to ask questions and chances to sit in on actual club meetings. I wish every school ran their accepted students weekends/days like Swat.</p>

<p>Also, not sure if all dorms are like Wharton where I stayed but the quad/suite style living was great because I got to know several other kids other than my host. I really liked my host but had I not, it would have been good to get to know the suite mates pretty well too. At Bryn Mawr I didn’t hit it off with my host too well and she was in a single and wasn’t overly social so I didn’t get to meet many other students or prospies which was unfortunate.</p>

13

<p>^So you’re definitely coming to Swat?</p>

14

<p>Yep, I made my decision. I’m so excited! Thanks for answering all of my questions, you were so helpful.</p>

15

<p>raiderade,
Just in terms of full disclosure ;), most of the dorms at Swat are quite different from one another with the exception of Dana/Hallowell and Alice Paul/David Kemp. (Those are sort of twin pairs.) That Wharton set-up you stayed in is considered to be one of the more desirable living spaces for freshmen on campus. Not that the other dorms are terrible or anything, it’s just that living in Wharton is sort of the jackpot. :)</p>

16

<p>D2 had narrowed her final choices to UChi and Swarthmore after deciding NU was too pre-professional in its focus. Did RTT and an overnight at UChi this past week. It was a tough decision, but D informed us this morning she will attend Swarthmore. Did not provide a detailed explanation but felt more comfortable at Swarthmore. Said both places felt intellectual but Chicago seemed to be focused more solely on academics whereas Swarthmore included a broader social activism engagement as well. </p>

<p>She also felt the absence of TAs and grad students would be preferable and liked the engineering option not available at UChi; also liked the 1st semester pass/fail transition and the honors program option. Not that keen on the Consortium (reason she didn’t like Pomona as much), but liked the opportunity to take a class or two off campus just for the experience. East coast access also probably played a part as many friends will be attending schools within a couple hours train distance.</p>

<p>Overall, parents happy with the decision as we think LACs in general, and certainly one as excellent as Swarthmore, are preferable for undergraduate study, especially if major is undecided as a 17-year old. We didn’t press her and allowed her to arrive at her own decision, in the recognition they were both great schools. I wouldn’t be surprised if she ends up in grad school at UChi.</p>

17

<p>Well, grad school is much different from undergrad, but still, it’s great that she’s going to Swarthmore. I myself had to choose between the two, but I ended up picking Swarthmore because it was more affordable.</p>

18

<p>counsel,
What you described is exactly what my S#1 did. Swarthmore undergrad. UChicago grad.
He did not want to be taught by TA’s/grad students as an undergrad. So, guess what he’s doing at UChicago now? He’s a TA. :slight_smile: But, that’s OK because he got such a good education at Swat that he’s a very good TA. :)</p>

19

<p>Counsel and Momof3sons–my D came to the same conclusions when faced with the same decision, and ended up at Swarthmore. She’s now at UofC for grad school and will eventually be a TA there! But her undergrads will be the better for it–IMHO ;)</p>

20

<p>for the record, i chose swarthmore. i would say that ultimately the deciding factors were RTT, grad school placement, size, and political activism. momof3sons, my host’s room was in hallowell, but i didn’t actually stay there because i did lust on the beach (for any RTT-ignorant observers, i basically spent the night on the main lawn). from what i saw, the dorm was ugly but serviceable, and my host was very nice and helpful (although i mostly hung out with fellow specs).</p>

<p>really though, making a decision between two fantastic schools like swat and chicago is like splitting hairs (excuse the cliche). it got to the point where thinking and worrying about it anymore was pointless. i’m satisfied with my choice and can’t wait for the fall!</p>