<p>3Ks, not really. Where it gets sticky is the OP has not accepted or declined the ED offer so in theory everything the OP has done is “still in play.” The discussion is more tiltled toward the “spirit” of the agreement. Pretty much everyone thinks either wholeheartedly or grudgingly that it’s Ok to decline the Penn ED offer to accept the state school full ride. But the speculation is if it OK to leave the MIT application in play and is it OK to decline the Penn ED on the basis of Penn not providing enough finaid and accepting an offer from MIT if the OP is accepted at MIT. Some think yes, some think the MIT application should be cancelled, some aren’t sure and some think that it is totally unethical to turn down a Penn ED for an MIT EA.</p>
<p>Dstark, nothing you posted counters the fact that now OP needs to withdraw the MIT EA application.</p>
<p>Once an ED offer is made/OP is accepted to an ED school, all apps must be withdrawn. it is rather simple, in my opinion.</p>
<p>OP withdraws the MIT app, tells U of Penn the financial aide offered isn’t adequate, and attends Penn State on Full ride, if U Penn’s financial aide truly isn’t adequate.</p>
<p>It is on the OP to prove/justify that financial aide isn’t adequate. It is up to OP to withdraw the MIT app. It was up to OP and family to understand what they signed, and there has been no indication that they didn’t.</p>
<p>The letters students receive with ED FA offers include a time frame (two weeks or more seems common) by which students must respond, and, if yes, that they then must withdraw other apps; instantaneous decisions are not required. This goes along with the Common App instructions “Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment.”</p>
<p>ED is a contract, and OP is gaming the system. But the system has been set up rather cynically, by a group of institutions with multi-million or billion dollar endowments. Like most things, it works in favor of the wealthy. “Taking 45% of the class ED” often means 'taking much of the class full-pay". I, like most of us, have been careful to follow the rules all my life, and I believe these rules protect us all. But if I’m going to be cynical, it’s going to be toward the immense institutions that make rules for their own benefit, not toward a student of modest means, and apparently some ability, who considers breaking those rules.</p>
<p>You’re wrong, 3321.</p>
<p>I quoted from your own link.</p>
<p>There is a person on the UPENN boards who was deferred from ED. Has wonderful stats and a true desire to attend but now only has a 10% chance of admittance in the RD round. If OP had not taken an ED spot, perhaps this other worthy applicant would have gotten it. It’s not just a matter of big school/corporation vs. the little guy. There are many “little guys” playing by the rules and being hurt by other “little guys” who aren’t. It’s so convenient to decide which contracts we’ll honor and which not-- aperfect example of rationalizing. I think many of the people on this board would benefit from taking a philosophy course in ethics.</p>
<p>Through the years there are been many contentious threads about ED, I have to say this is one of the most thoughtful and useful threads and should be “must read” for people considering ED.</p>
<p>There is NO CONTRACT.</p>
<p>The finances have NOT BEEN AGREED ON BY BOTH PARTIES.</p>
<p>Dstark, we are posting at the same time. My earlier post dealt with a post of yours discussing the differences between MIT EA and Penn ED.</p>
<p>I agree it isn’t binding due to the financial issues. If an applicant who has been accepted ED can’t afford it based on the financial offer they can decline.</p>
<p>They can surely appeal the financial aide. But it is on the applicant to prove the offer isn’t adequate. Proof isn’t that another school offered a full-ride.</p>
<p>My understanding of what I read about ED(and what I linked) is OP can decline due to an inadequate financial aide offer, which she has to justify, and then can pursue MIT and compare to Penn State. Or she can withdraw MIT, negotiate U Penn’s financial aide offer, and then decide. She needs to do this by Jan. 1st. </p>
<p>She can’t ethically bring MIT into it, unless she declines U Penn.</p>
<p>Her choices boil down to U Penn versus Penn State or MIT versus Penn State.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Read what I said very carefully. I think that under no circumstance can she turn down a Penn ED for an MIT EA with out giving UPENN every opportunity to make it possible for her to attend UPENN. MIT won’t agree to this anyway. The only scenario for which this even comes into play is if all parties agree that MIT’s independent determination of her financial need is significantly greater that UPENN’s final determination. In that very unlikely scenario, how can MIT say that we have determined that you need X, but since you applied ED to UPENN, and they only offered you Y, a number which we ourselves have determined is insufficient, we have to withdraw your EA offer anyway.</p>
<p>
Agree. Except, she can use MIT’s determination of her financial need as leverage for UPENN. I have no problem with that.</p>
<p>No, dstark, 3321 is correct.</p>
<p>From the National Association for College Admission Conseling (NACAC) Statement of Students’ Rights and Responsibilities in the Admissions Process:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nacacnet.org/AboutNACAC/Policies/Documents/StudentsRtsNEW.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nacacnet.org/AboutNACAC/Policies/Documents/StudentsRtsNEW.pdf</a></p>
<p>The OP received an ED acceptance from Penn along with a financial aid package. S/he must immediately withdraw the MIT application.</p>
<p>Proof is a subjective point.</p>
<p>The MIT vs Penn issue is tougher. </p>
<p>If the OP tells Penn the financial aid offer is inadequate, and Penn says it will take a few days to get back to the OP, I don’t see why the MIT application has to be withdrawn.</p>
<p>If Penn comes back with an offer before the MIT decision… things get murky.</p>
<p>p.s dstark, you didn’t post the whole quote from my link. My link does indeed demonstrate what I have been saying. </p>
<p>In addition a contract was signed. It was signed by all parties (parents, guidance, student) when OP applied ED.</p>
<p>OP hasn’t accepted the ED offer, so in that sense you are right…no contract since the original one. </p>
<p>My link doesn’t state the withdrawl process of other apps occurs when OP accepts the ED offer, but when the ED offer is made, the applicant needs to withdraw apps.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Implies that if the financial aid is insufficient for you to attend, then you need not withdraw other applications.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>CC Rapid fire!</p>
<p>I think we are converging to a solution.</p>
<p>Well…wjb, the NACAC is wrong.</p>
<p>It’s statement is incomplete. I think they ran out of room on the page.</p>
<p>dstark, I agree with your stipulation that if it takes U Penn a few days, OP probably doesn’t have to withdraw MIT.</p>
<p>Yikes, you guys are so fast and I’ve only had my first cup of coffee.</p>
<p>My S is about to graduate from MIT, so it has been awhile and perhaps things have changed. As I read the blogs, the FAQ’s and the admission material, you can only apply to other schools if their admission policies permit. So other EA apps such as U-Chicago are commonly in play. You can’t apply to Stanford SCEA for example. Georgetown describes the limits of EA to other EA programs in more specificity. </p>
<p>MollieB on her MIT FAQ post, “MIT’s EA program is non-restrictive (you can apply to other schools, as long as those schools allow applicants to apply early to other places) and non-binding (after you are admitted, you can choose whether or not to attend).” </p>
<p>As for financial aid comparisons, MIT doesn’t prepare the financial aid package until Spring. Again, perhaps this has changed this year.</p>
<p>These distinctions between the various Early Admissions policies seem more vague than I remember from the past. As I read U-Penn limitation to only one ED institution, I’m not sure how that works with an EA application.</p>
<p>Where are the real estate agents? To me, this is so similar to a home purchase. We have experienced a young buyer who backed out of a purchase agreement, it was ugly and had nothing to do with money except that the buyer found something he liked better and it supposedly it was a slightly better “deal” and theoretically we could have taken the buyer to court and enforced the contract but just wanted to get the condo back on the market and get a “real” sale… but what college or university is going to play it out? So is it a true contract - maybe. Are colleges willing to play it out legally - no. Could they blackball the OP or the OPs school - sure and some colleges will. The person who backed out of our agreement is fairly well known in our area and we have nothing “good” to say about this person. Lots of similarities to ED in the purchase agreement of a home. And Rocker I am in total agreement with everything you are saying. I think I see it as you see it.</p>
<p>“An admissions dean … told me that a listing of ED acceptance decisions for each member University and college is distributed among the member colleges and universities. … If the state school is a member institution, it may automatically (eventually) withdraw the previous offer of admission.”</p>
<p>Might need a different type of letter if this actually occurs:</p>
<p>"Dear UPenn,</p>
<p>HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME??? MIT and the full-ride schools have withdrawn their offers of admission, AND ITS ALL BECAUSE OF YOU!!! Invoking that ED clause about withdrawing other applications HOW COULD YOU???</p>
<p>Well, no use crying about spilt milk. The other schools are now out, so I elect to withdraw my prior letter of withdrawal. I look forward to attending UPenn as a member of the class of 2014.</p>
<p>(signed) Disgruntled but resigned freshman-to-be
"</p>