<p>Yes, 17 year olds might not be mature enough to sign a contract, which is why the parents and guidance counselor also sign.</p>
<p>This thread’s gotten so long …</p>
<p>I don’t recall any posters describe as “laudable” the OP’s proposal to withdraw her ED application. Were there some questionable assumptions made by the young lady and her parents? Absolutely. Could she negotiate withdrawal of her ED application? Very likely. Are there twenty pages of nuances in this whole ED episode? Definitely.</p>
<p>CRD: I have read your posts. I posted this quote for those who were truly trying to be helpful to the OP in good faith. </p>
<p>I don’t think she’s a ■■■■■ (although hard to believe she’s a fresh immigrant in this country for 2.5 years?) but just trying to find a way out of her ED?</p>
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<p>Both student and parent sign the ED agreement.</p>
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<p>Thank you. Your point being that a student from a rich family is bound by ED, but one who qualifies for assistance, however small, has the ability to back out because the “student and family decide if the need is met”, and they can decide that 1% is too much of a need. Then when they withdraw, presumably, the student is starting from scratch with no pre-conditions, and hence can accept another university that gives less than the ED s/he withdrew from.</p>
<p>I thought the gist of the anti ED argument was that it discriminates in favor of the rich. When you factor in the family deciding when the need is met it’s exactly the opposite.</p>
<p>I looked over the OP’s posts. They are pretty damning. It’s too bad. I was under the impression that she really wanted to attend PENN. I thought I was trying to help her. </p>
<p>She cannot attend MIT just because she likes it better. MIT won’t allow it. IMHO, there is a window with an infinitesimal probability that I have outlined that would permit her to attend MIT. She cannot at this point game the system to get there. That ship has sailed. She would have to convince MIT that the difference between PENN’s offer and MIT’s offer is sufficient to make attending MIT possible and PENN impossible. I think its highly unlikely. I don’t think she would even get an MIT FA offer. My discussion was for the most part theoretical.</p>
<p>Another great post, Dad<em>of</em>3. Exactly what I was thinking, but you said it better. Full-freight? You’re bound. Qualify for aid, however much or little? You’re free as a bird to walk away from the ED acceptance.</p>
<p>ED can’t be truly binding b/c the school can’t force the applicant family to pay/attend. The ED school can, however, contact other schools and make it difficult for the applicant to be admitted - - except for state schools. Since, in this case, (1) OP is opting for StateU over ED school and (2)the ED offer came on the heels of the StateU finaid package - - probably no harm, no foul.</p>
<p>But while a school’s calculation of what the family can afford may be financially possible, the financially possible may be more financially painful the the family hoped/anticipated - - so students who want/need to compare finaid packages should not apply ED.</p>
<p>I’m not going to begrudge people who need FA. I got a full ride from MIT. I grew up understanding financial stress and pain all too well, so I was sympathetic to the OP. Poverty sucks, even middle class poverty. I am very fortunate to now be able to pay full freight for my kids.</p>
<p>My understanding of ED agreements is that both the student and parent have to sign. If OP’s parent’s signed then, as responsible adults and parents they should honor the agreement. I understand that the economy is not stable and a lot of people are walking away from their financial obligations, but to teach anyone that that is the right thing to do is unethical. I agree wholeheartedly with treemaven. If a college offers someone a financial package and then takes it away because “they changed their mind” I bet we would see lawsuits filed all over the place. People MUST learn to think before they commit to anything - college acceptance, marriages, purchase agreements - everything. If our society was more honorable in this regard our country probably wouldn’t be in the fix it is right now. There comes a time when people have to learn to be responsible for their actions.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad, I thought MIT was a private institution? Isn’t the poster referring to a state flagship? (Although I see what she was saying about MIT as well)</p>
<p>CRD I still think this thread is great and very informative. I appreciate all your posts. Those of us who glanced at the OPs chain of posts yesterday think there is an ulterior motive, The fact that the OP disappeared early seems to add credence, but the gist of this thread really is still very important. The nuances of the discussion will, I think, help some parent down the road. I have really struggled with the concept of ED,EA etc. this year with #2. I finally decided no way to ED and told son #2 why we felt that way. I imagine many struggle with the perceived tip in admissions vs. the pocketbook issue.</p>
<p>It is not unethical for colleges to have ED. It is a business and they are offering incentives to attract paying students. If students and their parents are so easy to take these incentives without really looking at what it means financially, then they are acting stupidly. I don’t think any business, a university or any other type of business, should be responsible for irresponsible actions of overzealous parents or students. When will people start acting responsibility for their own behavior instead of expecting excuses when they act impulsively without foresight?</p>
<p>My understanding is that the GC needs to sign to show that s/he discussed the ramification of the ED commitment with the student and parents and that they understand. I think that they knew exactly what they were signing.</p>
<p>I’m in the camp that says sure she can back out of the ED, but it is unethical and she will pay the price in other potential acceptances. The school has most likely offered a FA package that follows the established norms and formulas used to determine EFC, and it is up to her to show why this amount makes it impossible to attend.</p>
<p>This is one of the fastest moving threads I’ve seen recently on CC! Well, let me add a bit more to the momentum:</p>
<p>I have nothing but contempt for students and parents who ‘game’ the ED system to get an acceptance and then back out of it when better offers come in.</p>
<p>I have nothing but contempt for colleges that ‘game’ the ED system to climb up in the rankings and mislead students and parents into binding agreements (with the complicity of guidance counselors).</p>
<p>Parents and students are going through the system once and often don’t understand these agreements fully when they sign up. All they are thinking of is “it will be easier to get into the college ED, so let me do ED”. </p>
<p>Colleges go through this system every year, thousands of times. Their lawyers have carefully parsed the ED agreements and their admissions reps have been coached to market the college and market ED to students and parents.</p>
<p>When looking at the two sides, it is clear where my sympathies lie. If more kids did what OP is proposing to do, these colleges might finally abandon ED, and that would be a good thing.</p>
<p>"I have nothing but contempt for colleges that ‘game’ the ED system to climb up in the rankings and mislead students and parents into binding agreements (with the complicity of guidance counselors).:</p>
<p>How are the colleges and GCs misleading students? I feel that any students/parents who are bright enough to be applying to an ED college are bright enough to figure out whether this is in their personal interest.</p>
<p>Certainly that’s true when it comes to students/parents who are accepted ED to places like Penn.</p>
<p>I have only contempt for the students/parents who use ED to try to game the system.</p>
<p>I am among the majority of parents in this country for whom finances are a consideration when it comes to our kids’ colleges. I don’t think that because I’m not wealthy, I get a pass to be unethical.</p>
<p>I’m still back on page 12 of this thread (boy, it exploded overnight!), but I don’t know if anyone has considered this issue:</p>
<p>OP is NOT going to know the MIT FA package until April. They do not give an advance read on FA. Therefore, getting a better FA package from MIT to bargain with Penn over is not going to work. (S1 had an MIT EA acceptance two years ago. No FA award til April. Will also say it was the lowest award of any school to which he applied – but we fall into that dark hole of close-to-full-pay-with-medical-circumstances.) </p>
<p>This assumes one feels she should keep the MIT app in play after declining Penn ED.</p>
<p>Northstarmom re: post #316 …Well said. I agree. This thread has been a great resource for students and parents considering ED.</p>
<p>Believe you me, you understand what the ED agreement is. It’s in no way, shape or form unethical for a college, which need I remind people is a business to offer ED. How is it any different than a school even the Ivy’s that offer early decisions to athletes??? This is ridiculous for people to try to twist this into making the college look like the bad guy. I see it kind of like a scholarship. We offer merit scholarships to really smart kids and this is basically like a little award that is given to kids if they meet the mold of what the school is looking for by means of giving them a early decision. Many of the best applicants for schools that offer ED are the strongest applicants that apply to that school. If I kid knows it’s absolutely their first choice, than how is it unethical for that school to offer them an ED consideration??? Athletes find out sometimes months before regular admits. Is that wrong??? All parties including the parents know the rules of engagement. It’s written in very basic terms and I have heard of no guidance counselors that enter into this agreement lightly. To try to blame this on the school is dismissing the fact that the OP knew what she was getting into ahead of time.</p>
<p>Northstar – Chicago FA bases their estimate for this year’s applicants on 2008 returns. We get to file everything again with 2009 figures in Feb. This is how the awards could be different. And, yes, scholarship awards don’t come out til early April. They don’t make it very user-friendly.</p>
<p>I see a few folks did mention that MIT doesn’t give preliminary FA awards.</p>
<p>ED is an honor system; “legal” doesn’t apply, so there’s no need to raise that issue.</p>