<p>People get hung up on the word binding. It’s a false word. It’s manipulative. You can’t force somebody to go to your school.</p>
<p>And how is something binding when you don’t agree on the price to attend the school?</p>
<p>You can not have an agreement without the price.</p>
<p>Makes no sense. Already, the schools are teaching the students junk.</p>
<p>And possible is a subjective word.</p>
<p>I have told some women, "It’s impossible. I will not go out with you again. It is possible. But it isn’t “possible”. (Ok. I told them in my mind).</p>
<p>Strategically, she should have applied RD to compare all financial aid offers. </p>
<p>Ethically, she should go with the Penn offer since according to the OP the Penn financial aid made attendance possible. That is the agreement that she made with Penn–accept me ED and I will enroll if the financial aid offer makes attendance to Penn possible. By using ED, she agreed to matriculate at Penn so long as the contingency (fin aid offer makes attendance possible) was satisfied. According to OP, it was.</p>
<p>If she wants to dump Penn for a full ride at the state school so that her parents can avoid taking out any debt, go ahead. I can’t see any near-term downside to her coming from either Penn or the state school. </p>
<p>But don’t make me twist into a pretzel and say that black is white. This game that is being played is neither strategically nor ethically right.</p>
The ED process is used to manipulate stats that impact ranking in a way that is somewhat misleading, and also to control their financial aid budgets while still pretending to be “need blind” and promise to meet full needs of all applicants.</p>
<p>Nope. Their offer makes it LESS DESIRABLE. Not impossible. She does not have to sell her body on the street (your words, not mine). She will not face starvation or homelessness. She never had to make that kind of choice.</p>
<p>I disagree with ellemenope, and my guess is Penn will too.</p>
<p>Maybe the OP should go to Penn for one day. And then withdraw. Will save a lot of money and there is no argument. No ethical dilemma. Every student is allowed to withdraw.</p>
<p>[Tuition</a> Refund](<a href=“http://www.college.upenn.edu/policies/refund.php]Tuition”>http://www.college.upenn.edu/policies/refund.php)
“Tuition Refund
A student who withdraws from the College (or who is requested to withdraw for failure to maintain a satisfactory scholastic standing) or who is granted a leave of absence during either term of the academic year will be eligible for a reduction in tuition and fees in accordance with the conditions set forth below. The effective date of separation is the date the student files a written request for withdrawal or leave of absence.
A student who is required to withdraw because of a violation of University regulations will receive no tuition refund.
For all other students, the percentage of the term charges will be adjusted as follows:
Request within the first two weeks of class - 75%
Request within the third and fourth weeks of class - 50%
Thereafter - 0%
In the case of students receiving financial aid, eligibility for the term will be redetermined based on actual charges and prorated allowances for living expenses.
For rules regarding reductions in residence and meal contract charges, see the current year’s residential handbook and the terms and conditions of meal plans.”</p>
<p>Sorry if I am repeating someone else, I haven’t carefully perused the whole thread…</p>
<p>If backing out of ED starts catching on, it will spell the end of binding ED (and good riddance, in my opinion). The only reason the schools offer binding ED is because it allows them to have more control over their financial aid budget. IF the deal is binding, only the relatively affluent can consider it; the relatively affluent are more likely, by definition, to be willing to cough up full pay. Hence, the school has a heads up on how much aid it has available for the regular round. The quid pro quo (I’m not a lawyer, hope I’m using that bit of Latin properly) is that slightly marginal, but affluent, students who may not make the cut in regular round have a better chance in the early round. They are willing to trade off having choices for a better shot at the ED school.</p>
<p>For the school, and for those who can afford whatever financial package is offered, it is a palatable bargain.</p>
<p>If the “promise to attend” part of the deal becomes loose enough, there will be no reason for schools to offer binding ED.</p>
<p>When my son was looking at schools a few years ago, a local Penn ‘rep’ (volunteer) gave a presentation and pep talk that put such an emphasis on ED that it was a real turn-off.</p>
<p>If the first date was a… then the guy should never have asked her out in the first place. Noone held a gun to his head and told him to take her to the dance. He just happened to see someone more attractive on the dance floor and dumped his date like so much unwanted baggage. That she may find another guy there is neither here nor there.
I don’t like ED. I think it’s manipulative. I hope it ends. But as long as one wants in on the game, one ought to play by its rules. No one held a gun to the OP’s head and said “Apply to UPenn or else!”</p>
<p>As a follow-up to my post a bit up the page, the guy representing Penn pretty much said, “your chances will be better if you go ED”. So, I agree with Marite’s point that no one is holding a gun; students who choose ED do so knowing they are getting an advantage for admission over those students who have to wait for ED.</p>
<p>The whole system is stupid.</p>
<p>I don’t mind binding EA so much, but I think that exists for the school’s sake more than the students’ also. (But that is not the topic here…)</p>
<p>Marite, I disagree with you on this thread.</p>
<p>I Disagree with the way you categorized the first date too. :)</p>
<p>I find the idea that only those that know they can afford a school in advance should apply ED… repugnant. </p>
<p>You admit ED is manipulative. You know the deal isn’t a fair even deal. There isn’t even a deal actually because the student doesn’t know the financial aid package. And you want the student to accept the “deal” if it is possible, even though his parents will have to go into debt to do it. We have enough people with debt problems already. </p>
<p>The whole ED thing stinks. And what does the school lose if a kid says no? Nothing. And what does the kid’s family lose if the student goes through with the ED acceptance? Tens of Thousands and tens of thousands of dollars.</p>
<p>Why do you think OP applied ED to UPenn? My guess is it’s because he/she thought ED would give her a better chance of being admitted. If by applying ED wouldn’t give OP an edge, than he would have waited until RD. In exchange OP was asked to make a commitment earlier than other applicants. In my view it was a fair exchange. If OP couldn’t afford to play then he should have waited until he could.</p>
<p>Agree with you, midmo–good riddance to ED indeed. </p>
<p>Penn doesn’t have any leverage over this student. She can walk away, with or without Penn’s blessing…no consequences. The slight twinge that might come from the “ethical dilemma” would disappear quickly as the parents exhibit great joy at not having to take out loans.</p>
<p>Where it might affect Penn in the future is that if larger numbers of non-affluent students start to play it loose with the “promise to attend,” then the admissions committees might start to give a more jaundiced eye to future non-affluent applicants in the ED round. </p>
<p>“If OP couldn’t afford to play then he should have waited until he could.”</p>
<p>I just hate this. The schools talk about economic diversity in their student bodies and then they use ED…which is exclusionary. Talk about two-faced liars.</p>
<p>The difference is between less desirable and impossible.
The game is stacked. But did anyone force the OP to play it?
If we want to debate ED, that is a topic for another thread. Don’t like the ED system? Don’t make use of it. My concern is the ethics of breaking a commitment.</p>
<p>There are literally thousands of colleges in the US. Someone who was hopeful of being admitted at Penn could be pretty confident of getting admitted to other colleges with merit money, and definitely to his or her state U. In need of finaid? Apply RD and compare finaid packages.</p>
(Ok. I told them in my mind).</p>