<p>That’s an unfair personal attack, Deja.</p>
<p>CRD-- I actually believe UPenn will see this as a legit reason to withdraw from ED, which is the good news for OP, who might, some day, want to go to grad school. :)</p>
<p>^i would be less optimistic. If you sign a contract, you sign a contract. You can’t opt out of it because a better deal comes along. I seriously doubt Penn will take this as lightly as OP hopes it will</p>
<p>I wonder if the kids who apply ED and choose to back out realize they have taken the spot of another student who would have gladly accepted that ED spot. These agreements should be taken very seriously and I believe backing out because another better financial offer came through is just wrong. </p>
<p>Students and their parents should discuss what ED means ahead of time and recognise that this is an agreement that does effect others.</p>
<p>I think Penn is going to fill the opening.</p>
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I’m sure they realize it affects others. I think that the “me first” attitude trumps all.</p>
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<p>I don’t think this is relevant. ANY student who declines ANY school, ED, RD, whatever, potentially takes a spot of another kid. Yet colleges seem to encourage as many applications as possible. That’s the way the cookie crumbles. </p>
<p>In the case, the logic is as follows:
- UPENN encourages students for whom UPENN is their first choice to apply ED.
- This was the OP’s first choice.
- She applied ED in good faith.
- The agreement states that after reviewing the finaid offer, if it is impossible for you to attend, you could be released. This removes the risk of having to attend if it’s financially impossible or imprudent.
- Full ride offer comes in 2 days before the ED decision.
- Given the full ride offer, and in view of the UPENN offer, parents and OP conclude that it would be irresponsible for them to take out the necessary loans making it impossible for her to attend.
- Within the context of the ED agreement, she declines UPENN giving up her first choice.
- This is very sad. </p>
<p>We only disagree on point 6.</p>
<p>I don’t think we know enough about the OP and her parents to judge whether it was a “me first” attitude or a matter of naive, perhaps uneducated parents, not really understanding the implications of the contract.</p>
<p>My own 8th-grade educated parents probably would have been swimming in water over their heads with these ED agreements. The sort of financial aid that would have been necessary for a kid like me to consider a school like Penn did not exist in 1969/70, so these situations did not arise. However, now the elite schools are looking for students from all sorts of backgrounds, and they are getting applications from them. It is to be expected that, in the absence of decent explanations of what is implied and/or required, some naive families will get burned.</p>
<p>Binding ED is inconsistent with expanding opportunities for individuals and changing the face of the elite institutions.</p>
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<p>Completely agree, midmo.</p>
<p>I have read most of the posts, and agree with many points (some conflicting). I think the crux of the issue is “what constitutes fin aide offer not being possible to attend”</p>
<p>Does it mean thinking about better offers, so a comparison is made? Or does it mean you only look at what Penn has offered (no comparisons part of the decision).</p>
<p>I believe, at least as far as I have understood ED, that you make your decision to accept or decline the ED fin aide offer only on what they are offering. Can you afford to attend the university based on the finacial aide offer. Plain and simple, no comparisons.</p>
<p>If OP can afford it, than ED is, in my opinion, binding. If the debt is too great though, in other words if the financial aide package makes it impossible to attend Penn, then the OP can decline.</p>
<p>The offer from the state school has no bearing in the decision. </p>
<p>The OP need not bring in the issue with the state school. It has no bearing on their decision to apply ED and no bearing on declining Penn’s financial aide. In fact, telling Penn about the offer from the state school might make it more difficult to decline Penn.</p>
<p>The OP should simply deal with the fact that Penn’s financial aide offer isn’t enough. That gets them out of the ED contract. Bringing in other schools doesn’t. Penn can (and perhaps will) offer more if the financial aide offer is appealed.</p>
<p>Having said that, if OP declines Penn, then MIT is still obviously kosher. If MIT offers a better offer, OP still shouldn’t use that in comparison to Penn. The issue is “is Penn’s financial aide offer good for the family” Not is MIT’s or the state school’s better.</p>
<p>The contract doesn’t say anything about comparing offers from other schools. It says, if financial aide isn’t good enough, you can decline.</p>
<p>I applied ED to BU. I will hear on the 15th around 4. Is it possible to send out
another ED to a different school on the 15th if I am deferred or rejected from BU?
Help! I posted on a different thread and did not hear.</p>
<p>yes, you can apply ED II to another school if you do not get in ED anywhere else.</p>
<p>Yes. No problem.</p>
<p>The ED agreement is just that an ED agreement/contract that a student is signing. The parents are fully aware that it is a binding agreement. The student that backs out ED has taken the spot of another student that has applied ED. The regular decision pool is very different in that schools are expecting many students to turn down the spot. The schools have accounted for this, and accept a greater amount of students for this reason.
Parents know what their financial situation is when their kids are applying to college. The financial situation does not change, barring both parents losing jobs, their savings being wiped out, or a sudden terrible health/medical issue that will affect the ability of the parents to commit to the price tag of the school that child signed on the dotted line for.</p>
<p>If she called tomorrow, the conversation would likely go like this. </p>
<p>Blueredbeaver: Hello Mr. Penn, this is Blueredbeaver. I have a serious problem. While UPENN is indeed my first choice school, the financial aid offer was insufficient. I have received an all expense offer to attend my state university, and in light of that offer, my parents have decided that it would be a great hardship to borrow the amount of money that you require them to contribute and thus it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to attend. Is there anything more that you can do?</p>
<p>Penn: I’m very sorry that you found our offer lacking. In general, we pride ourselves on being able to meet full demonstrated need. How much more would be required to make it POSSIBLE for you to attend. </p>
<p>Blueredbeaver: That’s a good question, thanks for asking. I have to sit down with my parents and determine that exact figure. I will get back to you shortly. Good bye. </p>
<p>The OP has met her burden. She can then take as much time as she reasonably needs to determine that figure. In the interim, an MIT offer might come and it might be much better (though not likely), so that if UPENN offered that number it would be possible to attend UPENN. </p>
<p>Phone call to UPENN on Thursday. </p>
<p>Blueredbeaver: Hello Mr. Penn, this is Blueredbeaver, again. My parents have determined that they could pay $XYZ. Furthermore, in the interim, MIT’s EA decision came in, and they also determined that my contribution should be $XYZ. It would be possible for me to attend UPENN if you raised my finaid to that amount. Do you think that you could do that? I really want to attend UPENN, even over MIT. </p>
<p>Mr Penn: Wow, that’s very unusual. Why don’t you send me a copy of MIT’s offer and I’ll see if the FinAid people are willing to do it. I appreciate how much you want to attend UPENN. </p>
<p>This may just end with the OP going to UPENN for $XYZ. If the difference is substantial, and UPENN doesn’t come up with more, I don’t see how UPENN can prevent MIT from taking her. MIT might have a different opinion, and they would have to be on board, but in my scenario they independently determined her need to be greater than UPENN did. </p>
<p>Or it might end that MIT won’t play ball and she goes to the state school. That is more likely. Under this scenario, I think the OP would have acted appropriately.</p>
<p>“I’d say, make up your mind as to which story is closest to the truth and run with it.”</p>
<p>This is a shameful, cynical statement, IMHO. :(</p>
<p>The ED agreement is for students who are absolutely, positively set that that school is their #1 choice. Is that true with the OP? Absolutely not.</p>
<p>She liked the advantages of ED: early news and easier acceptance rate. But, how does she feel about going UPenn? Wishy-washy at best. Seriously, look at her earlier posts about the school and you’ll see she is not convinced she should attend. *have you guys heard of transfering among different schools? what are some distinct qualities that each school has? is it difficult to transfer school/major if you don’t feel your current position befits you? *</p>
<p>With a full ride from her state school, she has stated here that Upenn’s FA isn’t adequate. Who knows if it is possible. I’m suggesting she should uphold the contract she signed because she signed the agreement. It should have NO bearing on other offers. </p>
<p>What does she learn if she reneges this agreement? Backing out of a contractual agreement is exactly a major reason why we’re in a recession folks. The contract states the OP can decline the offer of acceptance if attending is not possible, NOT if the FA can be bettered by State U or MIT.</p>
<p>OK, when does she tell MIT she has an ED offer pending? Or is it reasonable to assume that Mr. Penn releases the OP, picks up the phone and call MIT and says “we just released OP”. Does MIT figure your loss our gain or does MIT rescind the offer because the OP played MIT against UPenn? I can’t believe that kind of machination goes on but maybe it does? Or is the OP upfront with MIT before the OP calls UPenn. Something like hello Ms. MIT I have an ED offer from UPenn but it is not financially feasible for my parents I am going to see if they will release me will this impact my offer from your school? Then the OP calls Mr. Penn.</p>
<p>classicrockerdad,
Your scenario is interesting. I maintain though that ED contracts don’t state anything about comparisons with offers. They simply say if the financial aide offer isn’t realistic/affordable etc. for the student (family) than they can decline.</p>
<p>Why would Penn say, oh State is giving you this, and MIT offered this, guess we should offer more? </p>
<p>I can see calling “Mr. Penn” and saying that financial aide won’t work, can’t accept unless you change what you can offer.</p>
<p>Then Penn might offer better aide. But, I don’t see Penn getting into the game of who offers more. They do that during the RD process, but not ED. </p>
<p>I see your scenario going more like, Mr. Penn: “oh, State is giving a full ride? What does that have to do with our offer? Our contract allows you to decline if finances don’t work, so if I understand you, you are declining our financial aide/ED offer? Okay, enjoy State U.”</p>
<p>Is there an agreement between Penn and the OP as to how much the school is going to cost? Is there?</p>
<p>No. There isn’t. </p>
<p>So the Penn ED is not a done deal.</p>
<p>So MIT is still a go.</p>