In work places that I have been at, any evidence that you have lied about something is grounds for instant dismissal. I think colleges are training the kids poorly. Perhaps kids are coming into colleges with poor standards to begin with. We are failing as a society on this count.
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My youngest sonâs school, Washington and Lee, has a strict honor code (yes, that is enforced). It affects the school culture positively in that doors can be left unlocked, and students can schedule their exams and take them wherever they want (in many cases). Of course, the flip side is if you violate the honor code, you are kicked out.
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The honor code at our sonâs college is engraved in stone in the center of campus. Those who violate it go before an honor board. If they are âfound,â they are immediately separated. Zero tolerance.
Sadly, true, but these principles need to be ingrained from birth and modeled consistently in the home and in schools.
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My D was a course grader during Covid and she was shocked at the audacity of the cheaters. Someone used a previous yearâs quiz, submitted it, and then argued their answersâŠUm, they werenât the same questions! Student was given the option of staying in the class, with a zero on the quiz, if they divulged their source, or be expelled. There was no messing around. After the first exam, it was clear that some students had used chegg. Professor then started implementing all kinds of fail safes - everything from individual watermarked exams to tracking software. The prof, TAs and graders met every week and got savvy in spotting cheating. A number of students were caught and turned over to the dean of students. D wasnât sure of their ultimate discipline, but they were removed from the class, which was a required course for the major and pre-req for almost all the upper level courses, so at very least were no longer on track to graduate on time.
My point is that yes, cheating is a problem, but at least in our Dâs experience at her school, itâs absolutely not tolerated. Sheâs never had a professor that didnât care!
I will say, that during Covid, the take home exams were all open book, open note, and according to D, the most impossible tests sheâs taken. They were super long and timed, so if you had to look something up, you were wasting too much time. She would much rather have a proctored, closed book exam.
In terms of in person examsâŠtheyâve always been proctored by the profs and TAs who know the students. Iâm not sure how someone from outside the class would be able to sneak in (unless it was a huge huge class size but that hasnât been my Dâs experience).
And amen to honesty and integrity needing to be ingrained and reinforced from birth at home!
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Davidson is very similar. Iâve taught and supervised a fair number of Davidson students over the years through a summer field school and research project, and theyâve always impressed me.
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And in business, government, âŠ
(How many parents were totally honest with their income tax returns?)
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Strictly scrupulous :-). I value playing by the rules.
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Or the stupidity⊠I was teaching a class of ~20 students one quarter and found that two students (who were dating) had not only plagiarized but had plagiarized the exact same paper.
Did they think I wouldnât realize Iâd read the same paper twice??? Unfortunately for them, it was a required class for graduation, so they failed the class and presumably didnât get to graduate that year since this was in the spring.
Iâve also had students copy and paste large chunks of their papers but forget to change the font or remove the citation superscripts.
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We need the face palm emoji ; ). I swear some kids think the adults in the room are stupid.
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Not even West Point is strictly enforcing its honor code these days, sadly.
Is this complaint is the bucket of every older generation complaining about the younger one?
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I am!
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Me too! I always err on the side of caution. I donât mind if I leave a few dollars on the table. I sleep better at night. Plus, Iâm a govât employee. H is a teacher. My Mom was a teacher and my Dad a federal employee. We get our money backâŠ
It also came in handy for younger S who is in the middle of getting security clearance. During the interview process, he texted me asking if I had reported one of his weird miscellaneous high school jobs as self employment. Looked it up to be 110% sure, and yes. Of course I did!
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So, I tried the Moonbeam web site that is listed in the article. It is advertised as a document writing tool that incorporates OpenAIâs technology. The article makes it sound like a scary cheating tool, so I thought it might be interesting to try to quickly throw some text together for S23âs study plan (a freeform document that needs to be submitted to the Canadian government as part of his study permit application, and seems mostly like a formality). He doesnât know what to write for a study plan, so I had already asked ChatGPT to give an example, which was actually helpful.
Anyway, I thought the tool was just terrible! Very awkward to use and the results are worse than ChatGPT by itself. Not recommended. Not a very scary cheating tool, either.
Besides the moral code I believe we instilled in our kid, she attended K-12 schools with very strict honor codes that reinforced our values. Now she attends a university, W&L, that has a similar zero-tolerance honor code.
I just noticed that @cinnamon1212 has already commented⊠but I agree with her assessment of how the honor code at W&L positively influences all aspects of the school culture. My kid in particular appreciates the flexibility with exam scheduling so she can extend her breaks by taking them early in exam week. I love that kids feel safe enough to rarely lock their dorm rooms or not worry if they accidentally leave a laptop (or whatever) in the library.
That said, the school is currently in discussions of how adjustments may need to be made with the advent of ChatGPT⊠when is this technology appropriate as a resource vs âcheatingâ. Iâm sure many schools are doing the same.
Edit:
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I think the moral code you start with at home is a strong foundation. The honor code in the school (which we had as well) is a supplement, but cannot do the heavy lifting. Weâve seen some cheating in the school as well.
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Me, too. I am a CPA so I donât think the IRS would have much sympathy for me if I cheated (which I donât believe in anyway).
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I donât think a lot of adults are setting much of an example these days. Some of our elected officials, for exampleâŠ
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Unfortunately, cheating is everywhere - no college, no matter how elite, is immune. I think Yale did a survey a few years back and 14% of respondents admitted cheating - I assume the reality is greater. With all the tools at their disposal, students find cheating easier than ever - just consider the on-line âservicesâ that will produce original papers for you - no fear of plagiarism as it is original work - itâs just not yours.
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Me 100%! Same for FAFSA.
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