Deep Springs College

Colleges and Universities A-Z Deep Springs College
81

<p>@dylanf:
Forgive the brevity of my introduction, but CAPhotographer has said it all. Welcome indeed! </p>

<p>I have actually been looking into Dadaism a tiny, tiny bit lately, but other than that, I am at a loss when it comes to the visual arts. Unfortunately, that means that I cannot partake in this corner of the conversation so much as I can in conversations about philosophy or literature. I understand now that I must take at least one or two art history classes in college. </p>

<p>Dylan, please do not apologize for your replies. Your replies are shorter than mine! And they are also formatted much more efficiently than my replies–which is to say that you organize your thoughts much more fluidly than I do. So you have absolutely no need to apologize. We openly welcome you into the conversation, and I wish you the best of luck in the application process.</p>

<p>ALSO! The last six lines of my last Gaudi sonnet were supposed to be indented. It makes a difference to me, even though you will all think me a stickler for pointing out this additional inadequacy on the part of College Confidential. After the volta, each line was meant to be pushed inwards four space-lengths. Imagine this to be the way that it appears online when you read it. Normally, formal sonnets need not a space indicator for an explanation of sorts, but I felt that, as the closing sonnet of a sequence of relatively informal sonnets, I meant to highlight the element of formalism.</p>

82

<p>Red,</p>

<p>Once again, a superb, exciting, and invigorating response. You always remind me of the kind of person I hope to be in my class–which sadly doesn’t happen at my current school. So thank you. I will respond to your fantastic message when I have time. (I have a midterm and essay due next Monday, so it probably won’t be until next week sometime.)</p>

83

<p>I obviously understand, as it took me a good week to get my reply out there. I honestly don’t know how I found time for it, as the opening night for my play was tonight and I still managed to get to bed early last night–haha! I look forward to your reply. Again, all apologies for the rough status of my sonnets. I’ll be editing them in the next few weeks, so hopefully they will be less atrocious soon. Good luck with your midterm. Sounds like mucho fun.</p>

84

<p>Sorry if this throws off the discussion, but got kind of a random question (was hinted at a little at the start of this thread). I’m already at college (medium-sized research university), but really regret that I never applied to a liberal arts college instead, let alone DS. I came across Deep Springs a few months ago and the idea of it keeps rolling around in the back of my head. I know I want to go off to grad school and hopefully teach and do research someday, but I’m kind of torn between a love for knowledge and the fear that doing a Ph.D. would kind of constrict me even further into only knowing and understanding my discipline. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I really want the experience of going out in the desert to think broadly and live intently before I go and get compartmentalized in academia (plus as I think one student put it, on one article about DS, I kind of feel like I’m on a conveyor belt to get a degree, then a masters, then a Ph.D., then post-doc research
). I want to finish my degree first though since I’ve already put a couple of years into it and have made a lot of friends and really love my university and professors, even if I don’t really “fit” in here. (Kind of think its hard not to love college if you love learning, regardless of where you go). Does anyone know if anyone has ever come to DS after already graduating? I know that age doesn’t really matter for applying, but DS has to be about the fit. I’m pretty confident I’d be the type of person to love it there, but I’m worried I’d just simply be too old to fit in (I already took a gap year after high school and might stay a fifth at college to get an extra degree – kept rethinking what I was interested in majoring in. Not worried about my time – don’t ever really want to leave school.) I’d be probably 25 coming in though.
Any thoughts?</p>

85

<p>@reddavies:
ALWAYS glad to have a new member of the discussion, no matter the current tangent of focus at hand. Let me first get this out of the way: I do not know the answer to your question. That being said, my guess is that the only possible–and even this is still unlikely–problem would be in the fact that it might be, as you suggested, more difficult for an older student to fit in quite as well. The reason I say this is unlikely is that I know there are many DS students of non-traditional college age, meaning that ApCom is generally okay with this sort of thing. The reason I feel hopeful in general for your case is that DS is so open and unique and fostering and nontraditional themselves that I can’t imagine your situation would put you at any sort of a loss. In all honesty, your chances of getting in after already gaining a degree might not be incredibly high, simply because DS intends to serve as a sort of introduction to the higher academic and intellectual world, rather than a post-this, post-that sort of thing. If you apply now, your chances are as good as anyone’s. If you wait, I think that depends entirely on your case. Again, I do not know the answer in any shape or form–I am only speculating with that little bit about the school that I do happen to know. Good luck one way or another. Do you plan on applying this app season, despite the situation that you have described with your not wanting to leave your research university?</p>

86

<p>Hey rednegativity,
Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I understand it’s not really a question I imagine too many people might know except the current students at DS. It’s good to know they take a lot of people of non-traditional age. That was biggest worry – that it’d be only students right out of high school. I don’t think I’d apply this year, I kind of feel I need to finish my degree here first. Both kind to kind of finish what I’ve started here (and my university has been incredibly generous too me as well) and just because I don’t want wind up in some strange position in two years figuring out credits and wondering where to go to finish my degree. You’re probably right it’s meant more as an introduction to higher ed, but hopefully I can make the case that it’d make a good intermission before heading off to grad school.</p>

87

<p>Red,</p>

<p>I should be responding to your comments in a day or so. Just wanted to let you know I haven’t forgotten!</p>

88

<p>Somehow I found time tonight to respond. Please don’t take any of my comments offensively, and regard anything I say with a grain of salt–I am, after all, simply a student and don’t claim to know everything. And I agree with you on many fronts.</p>

<p>Phillis Wheatley, a black female slave of the 1700s, wrote poetry, but her poetry has been ridiculed for centuries by literary forces that snickered at her stiff, struggling, ambivalent, and forced lines (1). Wheatley in no way compares to Emily Dickinson or Sylvia Plath or Emily Bronte or any of the other great female poets about of the Western canon. But Wheatley did not write her poetry to be intelligently complex, to be reached by a larger audience, or to be even considered great. She wrote because she had to, she felt the need, the urge to respond to her surroundings. And that is why her poetry is intriguing and wonderful and beautiful, not because of her rhyming patterns or her complex arrangements or psychological depth, but because it is not only an amazing thing she even wrote—speaking to the power of creative urges—but also because a reader three hundred years later can get a glimpse into the mind, into the circumstances, of a frail, broken down black woman</p>

<p>I mention this story of Wheatley to make the following point: Literature should not always be judged by how it stands up to the greats or by how it follows or creates its own literary devices. Sometimes literature is a wonderful teacher. And that is how I view Sherman Alexie. He has taught me about the dire and lost circumstances of contemporary Indians. (I actually think Alexie purposely doesn’t use any literary devices to reflect the lost and wandering mentality of Native Americans today, a culture that just doesn’t care about anything—like how Alexie doesn’t “seem” to care to use any literary devices.) I humbly disagree with your statement about Alexie’s narrow mindedness and his purpose of writing is to tell us something we already know. I think all too often we acknowledge the horror that the U.S. government put Native American’s through but quickly get sick of the “poor me” syndrome. But I don’t think Alexie attempts to get sympathy from his background, and instead he writes, I believe, from brutal honesty: He shows contemporary Native American Indian life really how it is for many people, and that is hard to take. I consider Alexie an important voice in Native American contemporary literature because he tells the truth, as brutal as it is and as blunt as it is. He may not write elegantly or follow creative and complex devices, but he teaches me something. And to me, being taught something is one purpose of literature.</p>

<p>Now I don’t mean to say Alexie is more important or greater than say a Faulkner or even Bolano, but my point is they shouldn’t be compared; it simply isn’t fair to compare. Take this analogy: My family has a great tradition. We play board games. Not Monopoly. Or Life. Or any other brand name and recognizable board game. I am talking about eight hour long, ever changing complex decisions, strategy board games. I simply love these. They are probably my favorite hobby. But I also enjoy and relish simple and short games. There is beauty in their simplicity. The same, I believe, could be said for literature. Does something need to be complex to be great? Literature or art doesn’t always have to be a difficult puzzle that has to be solved. This idea about complexity vs. simplicity reminds me of this beautiful and short poem by William Carlos Williams:</p>

<p>so much depends
upon</p>

<p>a red wheel
barrow</p>

<p>glazed with rain
water</p>

<p>beside the white
chickens.</p>

<p>Many people try and make this poem into something complex, but I believe the poem’s intention is simply to provide you beautiful juxtaposition of color and textures and objects, engaging the imagination of the reader. Could you really compare this to Eliot’s work? No. That wouldn’t be fair because their purposes are vastly different.</p>

<p>I think it is amazing and wonderful you get so much out of Bolano and Wallace, and I think you should stick to solving the complex puzzles of the literary genius’. But don’t disregard the simpler and seemingly inferior works because they don’t match up in a literary sense to these masters: See them for more than literary works; see them as a response to the human condition.</p>

<p>Phew, sorry for the length of that, and please don’t take this as attack on you. I find it a fascinating debate. OK, onto the next topic
</p>

<p>Regarding open curriculum: Your response shows you are the perfect candidate for this type of curriculum, and it also attests to your maturity. You truly love to learn for the sake of learning, and I applaud you for that. There is really nothing else I can say, except that you will succeed in whatever school you decide to attend and any school would be smart to accept you. My list of schools follows (the first three are real reaches—remember I am a transfer student to all of these except DS, and my beginning grades right out of high school were not the best): Cornell, Brown, Pomona College, Tufts/School of the Museum of Fine Arts (dual degree: one in art the other a BA at Tufts), Washington University in St. Louis, DS, Oberlin, Swarthmore, University of Washington (kind of a safety school, but they also offer a dual degree similar to Tufts), and I have a slew of LACs that I need to cut down (some of which will be more safeties, like Pitzer or perhaps Bates). After your response, Hamilton intrigues me. Being from California, you may be surprised to not see a UC on the list, but unfortunately because of issues with credits, I am not a valid transfer candidate—this may be for the best because the UC system is in dire financial circumstances.</p>

<p>How did your play go? What was/is it?</p>

<p>Your sonnets: These are wonderful rough drafts. I am curious why you chose this type of sonnet? Was it just the assignment or was there any other reason? Also, please understand I am not familiar with everyone’s perspective you are taking, so I may miss subtle—or even blatant—reflections of personality.</p>

<p>Montserrat Lona Bordes:
Good opening. I love when poems start with concrete objects so I can quickly visualize and set the scene; it is a great way to transition into the poem. You might consider telling the reader what kind of spicy vegetables and/or how much garlic. Doing so would make the reader’s image even more specific. Lines 4-6 seem a bit forced and clunky to me. Adore the line “The folds of the scaffolding collapsed in my / Dreams last night.” The word “flourished” doesn’t’ quite work for me. I think, maybe, I have a problem with that whole image of dust flourishing its way to oblivion. I get what you are saying, but I would search for a more elegant way to put that. Love the introduction of Babylon, but my one question, would Montserrat Lona Bordes really use that reference? If so, then it is a beautiful comparison to the building. The ending is interesting, but I feel my eyes straining over the close repetition in the last few lines—that might be a good thing or it might not.</p>

<p>Zach Condon (sorry I know nothing about this musician or band):
What is your reasoning for putting an exclamation point after an em dash? What are you trying to get the reader to do? Weeping as she pressed calloused toes against the earth is a beautiful image—my favorite so far! “Spires seemed to perspire,” sounds odd to me. “Torturous heights” is a great and surprising juxtaposition. I do not quite get the second stanza—perhaps because I don’t know the band or perhaps because I am missing something. (I wish I could spend more time, the time these poems deserve, studying them, but sadly I cannot, so don’t be too upset if I don’t’ “get” things.) I am guessing the image of dizzying patterns of stars and tailed bent shapes is really a description of the building, and you call this a revolution, perhaps meaning a revolution in architecture? I think I get bits and pieces of this stanza, but I am still lacking an overall connection of the two stanzas.</p>

<p>William Faulkner:
I have to admit I was expecting the poem to be one long sentence, but perhaps it is good the poem isn’t what I expected. Good transition into the poem using a strong, concrete image. Interesting correlation between sand and the building—I like it. And a very lovely connection to childhood—the building is truly reminiscent of a child’s imagination. I don’t have too much bad to say about this poem. I enjoyed it! I could be real nitpicky, but I won’t go there.</p>

<p>Tom Waits:
Not sure the “glee glee glee glee” part does much for me, perhaps because I just finished reading “A Midsummer Night’s Dream” and the leader of the Rude Mechanicals fills the lines of his play with repetitive words with no real purpose other than he needed more words, like “die die die die”—not that you did this; it just reminds me of it. It seems distracting. I don’t really get the ending—once again I do not know tom Waits all that well.</p>

<p>Antonio Gaudi:
I almost feel like the first line isn’t or shouldn’t be needed. I think the poem can evoke that sense from Gaudi without telling us—if that makes sense. Of all the sonnets, this is the one I least connect to and least understand and perhaps this difficulty lends itself well to this brilliant genius architect.</p>

<p>Overall, I am quite impressed with these first drafts. The task you have set yourself is very difficult but a very wonderful exercise—trying to get in the minds of other people, writing like they would think. There are some flow problems. In other words, the lines, at times, don’t seem to flow from line to line. But for a rough draft, you got some great ideas and images down, and there is a lot—a lot—to work with. I would love to see if you develop these further.</p>

<p>I just picked up a collection of Kafka’s stories, one of which is “Metamorphosis.” Have you read much Kafka? I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the author as I have yet to read any of his works. You are more advanced than I in regards to analyzing and studying literature, so I welcome your comments and analysis.</p>

<p>(1) An elegant discussion of Wheatley is woven into the brilliant and moving essay “In Search of Our Mothers’ Gardens,” written by Alice Walker. The essay discusses the ability for black women to unconsciously and unwarily keep creativity alive, even in the most of dire times of slavery, when it was punishable for a black person to read or write. Walker manages to transcend not only racial lines but also gender lines, and speaks about creativity of humanity.</p>

89

<p>If I am welcomed, I am back. I did not necessarily want to jump in and give my thoughts on the sonnets of Zach’s but they were all beautiful
 CA, I am a huge Kafka fan and have read most of his short stories as well as part of the Castle and the Trial. So although you picked up the Metamorphosis, and that is a tremendous story, it’s not my favorite of his by any stretch. You should read it, but I would suggest that you start out with ’ In the Penal Colony’ or ’ The Hunger Artist’ which I think are better stories, if my opinion matters! I think that the Metamorphosis is famous because of its odd, wacky, and kind of funky story line, but In the Penal Colony for instance is much richer, much more sadistic, and I think better written
 Anyways you can’t go wrong with Kafka.
I actually have a picture of Kafka above my desk ( next to a picture of Nabokov, Joyce, Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane, Albert Einstein, Aristotle, and Teddy Roosevelt)
</p>

90

<p>Samuel,
Thank you very much for the recommendation. The book is actually a collection of Kafka’s stories, so those two stories might be in there. I will have to go check. Thank sso much!</p>

91

<p>Don’t you just hate it when you find the college you absolutely want to go to and then remember you’re a girl? God I wish they would change this rule-although, at the risk of being dismissive of my sex, I can understand DS’s point of view.</p>

92

<p>Hello all,
I am also taking on the monster that is the Deep Springs application. Sadly, I am not exactly well versed, or even very gifted at writing at all. I’ve tried to keep up with your astoundingly learned discussion, but I cannot.
I am working on my essay 1, almost finished, but I don’t have the slightest idea of what to write essay 2 on, and I don’t have very much time

I just got off the phone with a current student at Deep Springs and he really turned me onto the “three pillars” philosophy there. Having spent the past two spring breaks working in Mississippi for hurricane victims I appreciate the value of manual labor. Labor will allow us to throw away outside difference and will create a sense of equality. Probably all of the student body will be new to the labor portion of DS in their lives, and this naivety will help to level the field between students. The isolation will also help to focus our efforts on improving ourselves, and will teach us, like Thoreau explains, self-reliance. The student explained that he brought a laptop to DS when he first started, but after 2 terms, it broke and he realized that he had no real need for his own laptop. He didn’t buy a new one and is completely content. This example perfectly depicts the lesson students learn about what is important in life and what is not needed at all. Having difficulties communicating with friends and family will help to measure the importance of these relationships (I’m not saying it’s a good thing to estrange oneself from their parents!) and help mold a more fulfilling, efficient lifestyle.
And the academics are good. :)</p>

93

<p>YES thank you Mcmenchie! Finally someone that understands what Deep Springs is about. So many of these people on this forum see Deep Springs as a great start so they can go off to Harvard College. But you Mcmenchie, you actually get it! I hope to see you in the Spring!</p>

94

<p>Wow, I’m actually surprised that there are people actually interested in Deep Springs. I mean no offense though, as I am one of those people.
Unforunately, I just found out about Deep Springs about a week ago, and I’m not sure if I will have enough to time to complete the first part of the application. While the idea of a “Walden-esque” experience sounds appealing, I worry about the lack of diversity. Since the applicant pool is extremely self-selecting, I imagine that the thoughts and experiences of the students at Deep Springs are homogeneous. How realistic is it for a student to live in an environment that seems to be catered to a specfic type of individual? Doesn’t this create a lasting disconnect from the real world? (Not that there is much in it to miss anyway.)
However, the opportunity to be isolated from the rest of the world, in an intellectual environment that fosters service, self-reliance, and ultimately self-awareness seems amazing. Imagine the change one must experience after two years! Let me stop rambling though
</p>

<p>Btw, props to the Beirut fans!</p>

95

<p>I understand where you’re coming from OptimisticCynic and i have read articles tearing apart DS for their elitist attitude and lack of tolerance for people with different thinking patterns and values, but everyone I know of has prejudice of some sort, and with the Student Body of DS selecting who gets in, it is likely that the population of DS will mostly be similar in various way. This result would be the case in any situation with any school, if students instead of hired application committees selected applicants. I myself am trying to base my essays on the many ways I stand out as a person, for example the role of music in my life. If I get into DS, then I want to get in as the person I want to be, and not the person that someone else wants me to be.
I hope that was on topic, I sometimes get carried away and end up somewhere miles from my central theme.</p>

<p>Thank you very much Brningman, I’m very excited about DS (though my parents are not as much). How are your essays coming along?</p>

96

<p>I am done with my essay’s and have gotten them proofread. Right now I’m working on my favorite book list which won’t take very long. I totally agree with you on what you wrote on your previous post. I’m glad to see a like-minded individual on this forum.</p>

97

<p>deep springs is amazing- the essay rounds are brutal, but worth it. any alums on this thread?</p>

98

<p>A couple questions. Who’s done with everything? How will you know your entire packet has arrived at Deep Springs? I don’t want the postal service to lose mine without me even knowing.</p>

99

<p>Hi everybody,
I am also going to apply, I am international applicant, from Turkmenistan.
as I read your posts here I just feel that I’m going to be probably the weakest DS applicant this year. I never had any philosophy lesson and most of the books and people you discuss here are complete strangers to me. Add to this the fact that my english isn’t satisfactory yet, and that I learned about DS only two days ago
how optimistic I must be even to dare to apply?
Nevertheless, I hope to make my application competetive. I finished essay number 3 yesterday, no doubt with a lot of errors, and I have rough draft of other two essays. I feel that my essays are going to be completely different from what I feel you write, I hope it will help me:)
great to read your posts here and good luck to you all.</p>

100

<p>Hi Striker89. Don’t feel threatened by the “philosophy” people express on this forum.</p>