Deep Springs College

<p>Samuel,</p>

<p>I know how it is. I have been swamped with research on Bhakti literature and art. I am impressed you read both of those classics, and if you liked the Bhagavad Gita, you will adore the Mahabharata. It is the second longest epic in history (longest being from Tibet) and is similar to Homer’s epics, in that it revolves around a massive war. In fact, I think the Bhagavad Gita either came out of Mahabharata or is from it, not sure. It contains the basis for Hindu and Indian philosophy. Get some basic background info here: <a href=“http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Sanskrit_in_Classics_at_Brown/Mahabharata/[/url]”>http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Sanskrit_in_Classics_at_Brown/Mahabharata/&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I can see that you have a great affection towards classic literature regardless of western and eastern, and I applaud you. I wish I had more time to do outside reading, grr. </p>

<p>And no I have not read any of Alan Watt’s work, sadly.</p>

<p>Yah the Gita is a part of the Mahabhrata, and I hope you havent read the whole Mahabrata because there’s a curse if you read the whole thing… How are your Round 1 essays?</p>

<p>Haha, no I have not. I actually just ran across it when doing research on Bhakti literature. Bhakti actually draws from the Bhagavad Gita. There are some fascinating parallels with the other mystic religions of the world, such as Sufism.</p>

<p>Per the round one essays, I have gotten a decent start on the “about me” essay, but haven’t managed to actually start the second question yet. Although I have chosen the topic: Duchamp and the Readymade, and have done some more research on it. How about you? What are your topics (if I may ask)?</p>

<p>Yah well I’ve decided against applying to DS actually… Simply because St. John’s in Annapolis beckons me, and moreover I have yet to take any standerdized tests and I’m only taking the ACT this month and would get my scores too late to send for Round 1… but I guess there’s no reason to not to tell you what the essays I started were going to be on… or I guess just #2… my number 2 essay was about the ethics ( or lack thereof in many cases) in war, and whether there should be an ethical code for fighting in war, and I discussed the Illiad, Aeneid, and Thucydide’s History of the Pelopnesian war, and then discuss the current intl. humanitarian law on war… would’ve been good I guess, I’m not sure haha… But just because I’m not applying does’nt mean I will stop posting here!!! And I always could transfer to DS If I’m unhappy with where ever I end up ( which will most likley be St. John’s and I expect a decision from them in about 2 weeks or so)… but yah I wish I couldve applied, I really love the place ( from what I know about it, that is)</p>

<p>That sounds like a fascinating essay. I would love to hear your initial thoughts on the subject. Teach me something :)</p>

<p>So, I am a bit behind, but I will try to catch up now. Samuel, in reference to a few of your posts even before I came back for a bit: I go to a private school. Unfortunately, our education system is such that I doubt that kind of class could be offered at a modern public school. </p>

<p>When you say there are no paradigms to follow in the novel form, that you can go anywhere you want–I have been reading Joyce and Bolano and it really is amazing how much one can do with a vocabulary such as ours. It astounds me. To answer your question, I do indeed wish to become a writer. A novelist, a poet, a playwright–anything other than a journalist or ‘memoirist’ or the like. </p>

<p>CAPhotographer: one look at your company and it is clear that you need not apologize for a long post! And this is trivial, and I don’t know enough to support a full argument and I do not wish to begin such an argument, but I have always found it necessary to make the case that Plato’s presentation of art as an imitation of reality is one of his lesser ‘philosophical tests’. If you don’t know what I mean by ‘philosophical test’, look to the sections in The Republic where Socrates satirically claims that the old and the weak ought to be killed. Some people take these ideas seriously, and I think we should be wary of placing any judgments on Plato’s aesthetic tastes. But I will stop this, as it is entirely off subject.
I adore your allusion to Gaines, even though I am not familiar with his work. I happen to hate Sherman Alexie with a bit of a passion, but I will still give the essay a look, as it appears I can trust your taste!</p>

<p>I still don’t agree that overwhelmingly intellectual art is a selfish vocation, but I have been thinking about what you said about Shakespeare in the last few days, and you are absolutely right about his virtuosity. I had heard before your post, of course, that he had the power to amuse and enlighten simultaneously, and I had seen this ability exhibited, but you worded this observation particularly well in a way that has forced me to agree entirely. I do not find it necessary to be funny or silly or even optimistic, but it is a perfect, perfect goal for a writer to be simultaneously accessible and intellectual and literary. I agree with Samuel when he said, “It seems that If artists are striving so hard to appease their responsibility to society than their art will suffer because of that.”</p>

<p>CAPhot, I want to ask you something: when you first read The Waste Land by Eliot, did you not have an initial rush of elation? A release of sorts that transcended any description of a flower or a joke? Perhaps you did not, but I most certainly did; my initial reaction–before I understood a word–was, apart from awe, shock: shock at the complexity, shock at the beauty, shock at the urgency. This is a different sort of instant gratification than one receives whilst playing Grand Theft Auto, to be sure, but isn’t it true that it exists nonetheless? Don’t worry, I am no idiot–I understand what you are saying, and I agree to an extent, it’s only that The Waste Land struck me as immediately beautiful and affecting, despite its difficulty. Joyce also delivers immediate gratification, despite his reputation as the world’s least accessible author. Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, which is more complex than perhaps any of the works I have previously listed, can be read straight through for the sake of absorbing the beautiful insights and descriptions. So. I guess in a sense I am reinforcing your argument, that this readability is preferable. But still I find it difficult to place Shakespeare above Eliot. (Okay, that is a lie. Shakespeare is above Eliot, but only because of his breadth of work and innovation.) </p>

<p>CA: Right now, for some odd reason, you have to decide between being a photographer and forever quitting writing or becoming a writer and forever quitting photography. And for some other odd reason, you cannot be anything else–only a writer or a photographer. Odd situation, I know, but I’m curious what you’d say. And, if you DO say writer, would you seriously consider a career in poetry? I think that would be amazing, but I can understand why almost every poet in history has backed up his/her career with writing novels/doing journalism/teaching/getting a ‘normal job.’ But really I am just curious.
Also, for both of you:
If, for some terrible reason, I had the time to read one and only one Eastern epic, which would you recommend? I have NO familiarity with Eastern literature, and I would like to change that.</p>

<p>I ‘ordered’ Rising Up and Rising Down through my school library’s inter-library exchange program the other day. The librarians seemed awful frightened when I told them “No, the 700 page one is the short one.”</p>

<p>Samuel, please enlighten us. I wholeheartedly agree that that essay already sounds fascinating. Just so you know, though, if you do the ‘accelerated response’ option, whatever it’s called, you can get the October ACT scored to Deep Springs on time. That’s what I’m doing. It sounds like you’re set on St. John’s, and that’s great, but if the ACT was the only reason you’re bagging DS, let it be known that you oughtn’t have a fear.</p>

<p>I noticed you are both interested in a few Open Curriculum schools (Amherst, Grinnell, Reed, etc), and I was wondering if this was conscious or by accident? Because Samuel, though most of your schools seem to be OC, you are applying to St. John’s, the school famous for its inability to grant its students academic freedom. (Not that that’s a bad thing! I am also applying to Annapolis as a serious safety option.) It is necessary that I have the ability to take whichever classes I want outside of my majors, because I plan on double/triple majoring (depending on what is possible at whichever school I attend), and I want the rest of my education to be based on my terms. I don’t want to be forced to replace a section of a 3 semester writing series, for example, with an introductory force in macroeconomics. This particular situation is obviously not an issue at St. John’s, and it just so happens that one of my top choices–UChicago–has a very strict core, but I want the broadest education possible, and, again, I want it to be on my terms.</p>

<p>[ps]:</p>

<p>I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW CLOSE THE APPLICATION DEADLINE IS FOR DEEP SPRINGS.
NOVEMBER SEEMED SO FAR AWAY.
BUT NOW IT IS OCTOBER.
OH MY GOD I NEED TO GET BACK TO MY ESSAYS.</p>

<p>I was planning on having all of my teachers (since I am being taught classes by 4 fantastic English teachers currently) read each DS essay over a few dozen times, but I haven’t even finished a solid draft of any of them! Ah. I am sincerely frightened. I want to go to Deep Springs more than I want to become a writer! (Well. They’re neck and neck, at least!)</p>

<p>Do any of you have an interest in theatre? I ask because I recently read Faust, Waiting For Godot, The Sunshine Limited, a few Lorca tragedies, and an Arthur Miller short, and then I was cast in one of my school’s student directed plays, and suddenly, as of 2 months ago at most, people have almost come to recognize me as a theatre kid. Not quite, but almost. I love obsessions like this.</p>

<p>Out of absolute random curiosity: Are there any specific works that have captivated any of you in the past few months to an obsessive point? “Las Meninas” by Velazquez, for example, as you mentioned. I have been absorbed to a disturbing point within the confines of the Temple Expiatori de la Sagrada Familia by Antonio Gaudi. I’ve never visited Barcelona, but I find it to be the most impressive work of architecture (as it is now, even, in its 100-year postponed introductory state) on this planet. I just wrote a series of 19 sonnets about it, each sonnet in a different voice, from hypothetical visits from people such as Apollodorus to Faulkner to Tom Waits to Gaudi himself. I tried to imitate Gaudi’s obsession on a small scale (which is obviously impossible), which is why I ask if any of you have become obsessed with anything random lately: knowing what sort of thing excites someone says more than any personal statement. That CA was into “Las Meninas” by Velazquez, for example, says quite a lot. Though I could not say what it is that it says, as I am unfamiliar with Velazquez, it’s great to know what makes people go crazy. </p>

<p>Why is it that now, whenever I use/think/hear the word “obsession”, I think immediately of Bolano?</p>

<p>Hi all, haven’t posted in a while-
Not to intrude on the conversation, but I was wondering if any of you knew if legacy would have any weight, good or bad in an admission decision. I have had three relatives go to Deep Springs (a cousin and two uncles), and have visited multiple times. I respect the school a lot and the ideology that is upheld in contrast to other top schools these days. That being said, I want to know whether or not I should mention my family connection to the school. At any other college I would name drop, but here I get a little nervous about how they would perceive my intentions. If nothing else, my family legacy there has helped me to value and understand what Deep Springs, but for some reason it feels insincere… Any thoughts?</p>

<p>So first JROSE I dont see wht casually mentioning it in esay #3 would be a bad thing, but it probably wont get you in right away! Hell if you get into Round 2 you could get letters of recomendation by the DSers… Red, that’s awesome you were able to find RURD, good luck with it… Im on page 200 on 2666 it’s awesome… So as per my schools on the list, the choices in terms of openess of curriculum wasnt necessarily conscious but I kind of more went for what the Ethos of the places were ( and Reed does have some required core humanities classes in the freshman year)… and that being said If It was’nt in the context of SJC an entirley required curriculum wouldnt be all that appealing but there it’s just one great conversation because everyone has read everything… I hope you apply to Annapolis because it’s awesome… And for eastern epic, Id go with the Bhagavad Gita, it’s cool</p>

<p>Red,</p>

<p>First of all, I am thoroughly impressed and invigorated by your breadth and passion of knowledge, and it is passionate students like you that I am looking forward to being in school with—whatever school that may be. I will try and answer every one of your questions and comments, but this will be sort of stream of consciousness. And I apologize, therefore, for the choppy prose.</p>

<p>I am unfamiliar with those sections of Plato’s The Republic, and this most certainly could be one of those cases where I am speaking without really knowing enough—it is sometimes a bad habit of mine to speak without full knowledge. I find that, after studying something in depth, my understanding of subjects can change quite a bit, so lately I have been trying to only speak about about subjects I know a great deal about. Thanks for bringing Plato up. I will have to look more into it because that comment has always bothered me—being an artist and all. </p>

<p>I am curious to know why you hade Sherman Alexie so much? (And I believe I spoke wrong about the title of his essay. It is called “Superman and Me.”) He is a very controversial writer, and even many Native Americans hate him with a passion. For my women’s literature class, I just finishing reading a book called “Lakota Woman,” and the author, Mary Crow Dog, takes the polar opposite point of view of how she thinks Native Americans should define their identity. It is quite an interesting comparison. The conflicting viewpoint really helped me understand why Native Americans are struggling so much to define an identity—there is so much argument today about what that identity should be.</p>

<p>Your point about Eliot is well taken, in that I did find enjoyment in his imagery. It was so choppy, yet so beautiful and foreign—in a way, not too dissimilar than Shakespeare’s, but for different reasons. However, I still stick to my comment about doing art just for the artist’s sake. As human beings, I believe we have a responsibility to each other and if we forget that responsibility and only think about ourselves and our desires, the world around us—family, community, society, country, world—crumbles into a disconnected chaos. So while I am not putting down Eliot and his incredible depth and intelligence, I aspire to be more along the lines of Shakespeare. But then again, I would to think of a world without the Eliot’s and Joyce’s and Bolano’s, so I guess this is just my personal credo, my goal, my path of art that I feel is necessary.</p>

<p>Haha, oh man choosing between writing and photography? They have become so intertwined, so connected, feeding off each other in a symbiotic relationship that I can’t even imagine one without the other. In fact, my latest scholarly work in art history has revolved around the fact that art—whether visual or non-visual—comes from the same concepts, the same core, the same human responses, that they can’t be separated. They are an extension of the human condition. So you take one away from me, the other would get taken away as well. Sounds like a cop out, but I promise you it is not. And I don’t want to make a “career” out of my art because that sounds so capitalist, so commercialist, and I feel I need to make art for me, for my family, for my society, and if that ends up selling, that amazing, but I am not out there to make a career out of it. The poet Jack Gilbert is sort of my idol. After winning the distinguished Yale Young Poets award and traveling around the world talking about his work, he moved to an island in Greece, disappeared from the literary scene, and lived his life. But he never stopped writing. He reappeared a couple decades later with some of the most moving work in contemporary poetry because it was real, it was powerful, it was him. While I am not going to necessarily follow in his footsteps, I believe he had a great idea. I actually believe I will go into teaching, not because I need to make a living while I do the art that I want, but because I feel it is so important and I thoroughly enjoy enlivening others with knowledge, and seeing their learning and hearing their words inspires me in ways that aren’t really describable. If you had to read one eastern epic I believe you should read the Gita. Its power is beautiful. I am curious to read Laozi’s Tao Te Ching, but haven’t gotten to it yet. And I highly recommend reading poems from the Tang dynasty—they are very short and very accessible, but so utterly beautiful. Their simplicity, I feel, captures the Far East point of view on life—at least the old world point of view, as I can’t speak to contemporary thought. They are one of my new passions. ([Chinese</a> Poems](<a href=“http://www.chinese-poems.com/]Chinese”>http://www.chinese-poems.com/))</p>

<p>Regarding Open Curriculum: If I was an entering freshman, I am not sure I would be as excited about the concept. I can wholeheartedly attest to the concept of a core curriculum because if I didn’t have to take certain classes, there are things I wouldn’t have been privy to that I cherish now. (Although I admit some I wish I didn’t have to take.) There are things that you wouldn’t in your wildish dreams think you would like or find fascinating, but then fall in love with. For example, when I first went to school, I thought I wanted to get into digital graphics, so I had to take a painting and color theory class. I wasn’t really looking forward to it because I always thought I had not artistic talent—I couldn’t draw in a realistic manner (which goes to show you how we are taught that artistic talent must come naturally and it must be realistic). And at first I really struggled, but then something just clicked and I started to paint well. And to this day I still paint and find incredible enjoyment out of it. And to think if it wasn’t a mandatory class I am not sure I would have ever found it. A core curriculum forces you into areas that are uncomfortable to you, and that maybe a good thing. But, on the other hand, I feel your pain and hate to think of taking a class that I end up not liking at all when I could have taken a class I adored. So it is a tough choice, and now that I feel I have been exposed to an incredible breadth, I feel it is necessary for me to focus on that which I am passionate about—hence the open curriculum schools I am applying to. Red, where else are you applying? What do you want to major in and why?</p>

<p>The DS deadline is actually frightening. I kept trying to get to writing, or at least starting to write, my essays this weekend, but I was just too swamped with work. And I don’t see it letting up. Grr!! I wish they were like transfer application essays, which are due in March. I plan to focus on those during Winter Break.</p>

<p>Theatre I would love to try. It frightens me, which makes me want to try it more. When I was younger, the alternative school I attended forced us to be in a play every year. While I was never that great, it was a lot of fun.</p>

<p>Regarding obsessions lately: As I have mentioned above, lately I have been intensely curious about comparing visual art and literature. Currently, I am reading bhakti poetry (the term and concept of bhakti actually came out of the Gita) and attempting to understand how their concepts were expressed in sculpture. How does a poet express his devotion for god in words? And how then does an artist express that same devotion? In this case, a word can equal a body position. They are one in the same. I find that utterly fascinating. I also have a great obsession right now with Tang poetry. Previously, my poetry has been narrative and medium length. The brevity and beauty of their poetry is inspiring. I would love to see visual art from that period and see how they are related. I can tell you love Eliot so I would mention that there are painters and sculptors that I feel express the exact same concepts in very similar ways. Possibilities that come to mind are Paul Strand, Giacometti, and maybe even Picasso—I would have to think and research more about that though. And by the way, I think Gaudi is phenomenal, and that building is out of this world beautiful. And lastly, just to give you a couple quick reasons why “Las Meninas” is one of the great works in the Western canon, I will present you with a couple of questions for you to ponder (after googling the painting): Who is this a portrait of? Why does Velazquez appear in his own painting? Why are the King and Queen in a mirror in the background? Is there some point besides painting a portrait that Velazquez is making? These are all debatable and that ambiguity is part of its greatness. I can tell you that it isn’t just a simple portrait of the princess, or even of Velazquez.</p>

<p>Lastly, I would like to thank you for the incredible post and the incredibly thought provoking questions. And, the following comment you sort of slipped in there at the end is truly amazing and so very true: “knowing what sort of thing excites someone says more than any personal statement.”</p>

<p>Red,</p>

<p>I am interested to read one of your sonnets inspired by Gaudi’s building–if you are comfortably posting it, that is. Below is a poem I wrote this weekend inspired by some Tang poetry.</p>

<p>Apple Picking</p>

<p>The sun slumps behind purple hills,
light thickens, crickets chirp,
orioles settle in their nests.</p>

<p>They return to the farm smiling,
bags overfilling with red-green fruit.
A warm supper is served.</p>

<p>In the orchard, I continue searching
for my first ripe apple. Into the night
I work— the crickets and I.</p>

<p>Hmm, coming on this a bit late. Anyway, I’m applying as well. Made it to the second round last year–completely bombed my interview. Really nifty place.</p>

<p>Last year’s application group made a facebook group for all of those admitted to Round II so that we could keep in contact when making travel arrangements. Yes, it’s a tad early to be talking of hotels and flights, but I just wanted to plant the idea seed so someone else could take the initiative when the time comes; I’m gonna do a 180 from last year’s approach to applying and not become completely absorbed in the ds discussion thread on cc.</p>

<p>Good luck, everyone.</p>

<p>So Bbear, are you using your same round I essays as you did when you applied the first time?</p>

<p>bbear, I actually remember reading a few of your posts. I went through that thread a few months ago. I started a facebook group for DS applicants a few weeks ago, you can all search for it. You can send me private messages here on cc if you want me to tell you my real name if you have trouble finding the facebook group. But welcome, bbear.</p>

<p>CAPhotographer: I will reply to your amazing post as soon as possible. I swear. I have been spending mass amounts of time on my Plato paper in my senior humanities class, so I don’t have the time to respond completely right now. I LOVE the last line of your poem by the way. I’m not just being nice–it is an absolutely fantastic conclusion. It completely settles the interesting mood that the first line established. Mucho kudos. I’m not ignoring your request, I will post a sonnet or two when I re-visit this board this weekend.</p>

<p>By the way:</p>

<p>My copy of The Divine Comedy has lists for everything except for Dante’s “cardinal” vices and virtues, and I don’t have time to revisit them all in the actual text tonight–I am having trouble, for some reason, finding a list of them all, with their original names and meanings and such. I really need the vices more than anything. This is NOT by any means essential, as my paper is on Plato and I am only using Dante in one of my footnotes, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, this is due Thursday (tomorrow), so don’t bother searching for the answer if any of you read this on or later than Thursday; I don’t want to waste your time. Thanks, though.</p>

<p>Red,</p>

<p>I hope you found what you are looking for, and I look forward to your reply.</p>

<p>This text contains irrelevant personal facts.</p>

<p>I apologize for this late intervention but I would like to report my interest in Deep Springs. I’m from Sweden and I’m seriously considering applying for the 2010 class. Seeing that Deep Springs is “known to be unknown” it might be slightly surprising but I have my reasons. Sweden is not at an advanced stage when it comes to educations within the field of liberal arts. Thus I have been looking for schools offering degrees in philosophy, literature and politics in the UK. One of my teachers heard about my plans and came up with a suggestion; Deep Springs. He turned out to be a former student of this peculiar college and he said that I had the capacity to study there. Initially the mere thought of it made me shudder but when I did some research I began to appreciate it more and more. The people at the forums (this year but also last year), the price, the prospects (although I have never given much priority to such matters you can’t deny that the prospects are good) and the tailor-made courses are all factors that put Deep Springs at the top of my wish list. </p>

<p>I’m sorry if this biography has bored people to the extent of turning off the computer. In any case I have skimmed through the different posts and as I stated earlier this forum is a reason to become more yearning. Clearly we are all affected by our different nationalities and my reading list is a bit different from some of yours. Still the common denominators are many and the underlying philosophical areas are basically the same. My favourites when it comes to fiction are Albert Camus, Jean Paul Sartre, Dostoyevsky and some Swedish authors (I’m sorry), and when it comes to plain theory I really like to read Bentham, Rawls, Marx and Mill but also Epicurus, Plato and the above mentioned. No Swedes though, there aren’t any Swedish philosophers. How is Camus regarded in the US? Has anyone read The Stranger?</p>

<p>I’m currently working on my essays. Number two deals with the twisted ideology that arises if you interlace two very different philosophers (due to Samuel’s advice I won’t tell you which two (one is Locke)) and number three is written with a touch of Scandinavian history. </p>

<p>Moreover I spend my spare time arranging events in my very small home town. I’m also into novel writing. That is my biggest concern when it comes to foreign studies. I am very good at the Swedish language and I have always been almost adored by my surrounding for it. Now I will be at the level of a ten-year-old (as you probably have noticed if you have read my text). But that is also why Deep Springs is enticing. If I end up in a big UK university I think that people will be a lot less comforting when it comes to grammatical correctness. You’ll be a lot more anonymous. Furthermore I dare to say that I’m good at the art of writing and with Swedish measures I’m definitely not bad at English. But it still worries me.</p>

<p>Now I have to apologize once again for this expounding of biblical measures. I have edited the post and it is now comprising a warning text in the beginning. Finally I just want to ask you cultural foreigners a question, how do you regard a Swedish application (or international in general)? I don’t know much about the view on Swedes. It might be non-existent. But I can say that from what I’ve read on these forums I wouldn’t mind spending my college time with you. Any information would actually be helpful as I will not be able to attend the three visiting days (in case I proceed to the second round). </p>

<p>Good luck to you all and special thanks to the one who responds to this essay.</p>

<p>Dylan,</p>

<p>Welcome! Please there is no need to apologize. You write quite well so don’t be too concerned with that, and your interests certainly show your level of curiosity—a key factor when applying to Deep Springs or any liberal art school I believe. I would also encourage you to look at a few other small and middle-sized liberal art schools in the United States that are quite open to international students. I think it is very important to have international students among my peers, for it really opens up conversation to completely new and interesting perspectives.</p>

<p>As per your concerns about views toward Swedes: I work with a woman who, while not born in Sweden, spends a lot of time there—here father was born and got his degree there, and she speaks Swedish fluently. She is incredibly intelligent and is wonderful to discuss issues from a different perspective. I enjoy learning how Swedish people, for example, view health care, or how they approach literature. And Sweden has some great authors from what I hear, so don’t be ashamed of your essay or your reading list. Speak to who you are.</p>

<p>I actually think international students have a bit of an advantage because of the different perspective they bring to the classroom: We live in an international world, where it is important to understand other cultures, other points of view, and you allow a group of students to experience that.</p>

<p>I am not as well read in Philosophy as you or others; my background is more in the arts, but I think that combination is very enticing and could be fruitful, teaching and invigorating each other. I will say one thing about studying the arts, both as studio art and in art history: Art History requires knowledge in almost every discipline, from psychology, to philosophy, to history, to sociology, to studio art, to literature, and so on. It is one of the reasons I adore it so much. My curiosity in many subjects has held me down in the past because I ended up with more breadth than depth, but studying Art History has not only allowed me to look at visual arts that I adore, it has allowed me to use that curiosity of many subjects and combine them into one scholarly study—not to mention the amazingly positive affect it has had on my own art work. For example, since you are interested in philosophy, you would probably be interested in learning about Duchamp, his Readymades and the “Bride Stripped Bare by Her Bachelors.” And if you like psychology, then Abstract Expressionism is fascinating. I love literature, so I often find myself looking at parallels between visual arts and written arts.</p>

<p>Anyway, welcome. I hope you engage more in the conversation.</p>

<p>Thank you! Reading your reply truly pleases me. I can only agree with what you say in your last paragraph. I have “favorite hobbies” ranging from clay animation to the analysis of federalism. Consequently I’ve had severe trouble finding one area that comprises all of my sprawling interests. But Philosophy does. And finding a subject that, when practised, satisfies not only one but all of your different interests is surely amusing. Now I can do one thing and excel in twenty.</p>

<p>My mother is an art teacher so yes, I am acquainted with Abstract Expressionism and the Readymades. Concerning the Readymades I must admit that I’m more interested in the phenomenon of dadaism bordering on anti-art than the actual works of art. I hope you understand what I mean. I don’t want to nag about Sweden, as I’m not very interested in the country myself, but the anti-art discussion in this country has been intense the latest months. It started when a woman from Sweden’s most famous art school did her examination project. The project consisted of a woman (herself) faking a mental illness and then receiving attention by police and paramedics. The woman in question was quite recently sentenced to pay a fine because of her outrage. Anyway, the references to Duchamp were many. And don’t take this as an insult. The Readymades interest me but maybe not in the conventional way. On the other hand, they aren’t made to be conventional.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if I passed on to another subject but the Readymades caught my interest.</p>

<p>Dylan,</p>

<p>I am focusing Essay number 2 on the application on Duchamp and the Readymades so I am more than happy to discuss and share my opinions about them. In discussing the work of Andy Warhol—specifically Warhol’s “Brillo Boxes,” art philosopher and critic Arthur C. Danto claimed Warhol’s work signaled the “End of Art,” meaning that art as we knew it for the past millennia has now changed. (Although Duchamp’s Readymades, I think, mark this point in art history, rather than “Brillo Boxes.”) But the reason I think the Readymades are important is not because it signaled the end of art or that I believe anti-art is better; I believe, rather, they are important because for the first time artists, art historians, art critics, and art enthusiasts were forced to truly define what art means. Before them, it was just a given what was art and what was not: painting, sculpture, architecture, and all the traditional arts. So even though I tend to still lean more towards the traditional art side (for reasons I am more than willing to discuss), discussing and critiquing Duchamp’s work and theory has really help me to understand my own work and its purpose. In addition, I further enjoy and understand these non-traditional arts and take them for what they are, not what they aren’t.</p>

<p>On a side note, I found it very interesting that you commented you were more interested in the phenomenon of Dadaism, as opposed to the art itself. That is exactly why I tend to lean more toward traditional arts: Non-traditional arts take focus away from the visual experience, the visceral interchange between artist and audience, and delves more into abstract thinking, into an area where the art becomes background, which is in opposition to the purpose of art—which is why, I suppose, Danto stated that art was over.</p>

<p>CAphotographer,</p>

<p>That sounds like an interesting essay! I’d be very glad to discuss it with you. The immense diversity that the application process leads to is really fantastic. My essay is more or less dealing with another universe. </p>

<p>Anyway, I’m currently studying an extracurricular philosophy course and thus I have a lot to attend to. But I would very much like to maintain the contact so I promise you that I will respond in a couple of days.</p>

<p>@CAPhotographer:
That comment has always bothered me, as well. However, with my teacher, I found a somewhat significant bit of proof for the fact that his comments about censorship and the arts were entirely satirical. They do not come off as satirical, but it is somewhat safe to say that they are just that. Which brings a bit of comfort in regards to my opinion of Plato. </p>

<p>What bothers me about Alexie is that he completely disregards literary device because he thinks his identity makes up for that fact. He comes off, through his writing, as incredibly close-minded; he is what Plato would call “ruled by habit”, meaning that he looks at every aspect of the world through an incredibly narrow lens, all for the purpose of justifying a belief about his race that the world at large agrees with in the first place. He accomplishes nothing from the point of view of a literature geek, the way that Bolano or Wallace or the other recent greats have invented not only genres but entire literary devices beyond simple motif. Bolano, for example (as well as McCarthy, for that matter), consciously sets up a hellish sequence of events whose purpose is to knock you near unconsciousness so as to create an epigraph of sorts that forms the majority of the novel, preparing you for the soliloquies and insights of the end–he first shows you his world, then looses you in it, then swallows you up, then crafts your very perception of reality, and then presents his ideas. Alexie starts by saying, “Look, I am a minority, and I am going to write about how it is hard to be a minority.” I sincerely hope that I am not offending you in any way, but I simply feel that his fiction accomplishes nothing of lasting value. I hate to sound demeaning, but you asked. I’ll still get to that essay eventually–I have the odd ability to read each work of an author with an open mind, even those authors that I adore and those I detest. And essays are different. So, anyway.</p>

<p>Despite my opposing viewpoint, I love this sentence of yours: “As human beings, I believe we have a responsibility to each other and if we forget that responsibility and only think about ourselves and our desires, the world around us—family, community, society, country, world—crumbles into a disconnected chaos.” I do agree. I think that David Foster Wallace’s largest problem was that he did forget this inherent responsibility of the artist. But then again, I think it is absolutely trite and disgusting to water down any brilliant idea just so that less cultured people can enjoy its entertainment value. (I know this isn’t what you’re suggesting, don’t worry! But still, I want it to be clear that I feel this opposition. Again, I feel Shakespeare, for the very reasons that you have mentioned, is a god among men, and I have actually adopted your credo regarding the influence of his vast web of appeal.) That said, as literally perfect as Hamlet may be–as much as I would adore devoting years of my life toward putting on a full production of the amazing tragedy–I feel more complete after reading more challenging works. Not to suggest that Hamlet is easy! There is such a depth to the motives and reactions of every single character that I cannot imagine a viscerally appealing work with such right for scholarly approach. So, in many ways, your argument is stronger. Were this debate, you would have won. But The Divine Comedy, The Sagrada Familia, Ulysses, Murder in the Cathedral–these works still have a literally impossibly difficult level of resonance in my mind. I cannot imagine the artistic landscape of the world without them. The honesty of these artists is absurd, in every sense. And the fact that, for the patient reader, these works are also incredibly beautiful is mind-blowing.</p>

<p>Do not worry–your answer is not cheap; it was my question that was unfair. I do love to see how people handle that sort of ultimatum, though, and you did a great job at defending your self-prescribed “cop-out.” I understand. If man never learned to paint, I honestly doubt that literature would have arisen–or that it would, at the very least, have come to be NEAR as great as it is today. Not because novels are based on paintings, as I am sure you understand to an extent even fuller than me, but because they revolve around one another. So to take one art form from an individual artist would be torturous to the remainder of his work the way that taking one art form from the history of art would be disastrous. And I think Bolano would agree with Jack Gilbert: Bolano shunned the idea of quitting a regular day job even after he became somewhat successful, because he felt that the physical world was so closely related to the intellectual world that to forget one would be to collapse within the context of the other. And I would love to read the Gita.</p>

<p>I understand your concern regarding OC. I already force myself into odd curriculum situations (I did not need to take another science this year, for example, and I am absolutely terrible at classroom science courses, but I chose a second physics course not to get into college but because I understand how important it is for a thinker-writer to understand the physical world in which he has found himself. As a result of decisions like this–I truly detest the classroom sciences with a passion and yet I am forcing myself to learn additional aspects of this field–I think that I would do well at an OC school). I also already do things that I am not comfortable with–I tried out for a one act this year, for example, and got the lead role, despite having never once taken even an Intro to Theatre course–so I think that the imposed requirements of any institution would inherently be different in some ways from the broad education that would be best for me to pursue.</p>

<p>I am applying to (I had a list on this thread a few weeks ago, and as I predicted, it has changed enormously):
obviously DS, UChicago (despite the very structured curriculum, because I happen to like their curriculum more than any other school’s), Marlboro, Oberlin, Reed, Hamilton, Beloit, St. John’s Annapolis, NYU and Columbia, as well as possibly Eugene Lang (all because of their location in Manhattan), possibly Cornell because of their Telluride House, possibly Amherst, and probably another safety or two. How about you?</p>

<p>I also have been having trouble writing out my second essay. I have a rough draft for the first, a solid outline for the third–but the second, though I have found a great deal of evidence and support, has yet to be written beyond a rough outline.</p>

<p>I was only curious regarding theatre. I found out, while directing one play and acting in another the last few weeks, just how many people are a part of our theatre department. It seemed like suddenly half the school considered himself an experienced stagehand or techie or actor or playwright. It was positively frightening. </p>

<p>That is undoubtedly utterly fascinating. I honestly had no idea such a clear relation existed. I also find your relation between Eliot and Paul Strand incredibly apt. I am no art historian, and so I can only approach what you speak of from a visceral level, but still it is clear that you are correct in this regard. Ah, god damnit! Haha, your questions about Les Maninas took away a half hour of my life…! Those questions alone were a fantastic introduction. Consider me fascinated.</p>

<p>Here are a couple sonnets from my Gaudi-inspired cycle. I am only showing more than one because they are not meant to be read individually. Remember that my assignment was to write a poem from a different perspective, so not one of these sonnets is in MY poet’s voice–they are all from the voice and perspective that I imagined for each character. The first one is the only voice I invented. The others are writers, musicians, et cetera. Remember also that these are all a part of an incredibly rough first draft. [These poems are all from the perspective of imagined visits by obsessive artists and people to Gaudi’s Sagrada Familia–for the reason that he is the subject of the others’ focus, the poem by my invented Gaudi is the only formal, Petrarchan sonnet.] Again, these are only a few of the many sonnets I wrote. I would love destructive (as well as constructive, I suppose) criticism.</p>

<p>Montserrat Lona Bordes:</p>

<p>Spiced vegetables. Garlic. My morning
Spent for consumption on his part.
Is this my maddened rebuttal?
Venturing forth every day out.
And with the awe I find myself
Accustomed to, having walked to these
Sacred grounds daily, still I cannot understand.
The folds of the scaffolding collapsed in my
Dreams last night. Dust flourished its way into
The oblivion of the sky above. Clouding the
Towers. Like those of Babylon, only here
I cannot believe these towers to be the product
Of man. Of us and of men.
Of men and of us. Of man.</p>

<hr>

<p>Zach Condon [indie musician of the band Beirut]:</p>

<p>St. Apollonia—! I saw her and wept
as she pressed calloused toes
against the earth, so yellowed with
the artificial sphere of envy—
she was one for fleeing, and she
brought me to the edge of a pond…
There were purple cattails and
flowered lilies in the water, all
surrounding the reflection of that
enormous shape in the clouds—!
The air was thick with the fog of
late summer, and the spires seemed to
perspire the clouds. So revolutionary!
So entirely self-consuming, to torturous heights!</p>

<p>My family’s role in this revolution
was to keep me sheltered from the
whirling, dizzying patterns of
the stars, the tailed bent shapes
speeding through my vision, forcing
me awake—
Where does this take me?
Where does this leave me?
All the world is butter and spires.
Hurrah—strike up the ensemble!
Strike up the ensemble!
A life’s not enough for horns
and for patterns of drums
and of words. Strike! Strike!</p>

<hr>

<p>William Faulkner [parts of this are supposed to be italicized, namely lines 2 and three, and the word Transitions in line 11, but CC won’t italicize]:</p>

<p>The blackened earth is upheld in the spire.
as a child I would sit along the shoreline,
the water would batter my feet…I would
hold up handfuls of beach sand, the kind
from the gulf. I would grab up sea water—
the kind from the gulf. I would
let it fall on itself, I would make
mounds of the stuff. Each handful of
this softened beach mud built up
into a tower of flowing rolls of a battered
texture of some confused sort. Transitions.
I see my childhood beach in the expanse above.
Yoknapatawpha be damned;
this is my apocryphal landscape.</p>

<hr>

<p>Tom Waits:</p>

<p>Black is mine coffee.
Grating pitchers and swirls.
I exit: downstage
right into their perils.
The line ends with baby
Martha and me.
We took each other to Spain.
for glee glee glee glee.
But wait! mister hand,
guide your path to the earth
before you, suspended,
launched your impact from birth.
Shadows from churches.
Ringers from rings.</p>

<hr>

<p>Antonio Gaudi:</p>

<p>It has finished! Just as it last began!
Eighteen puppeteers recalling themselves
Faster than I thought the large, glowing bells
Of madness could be won—regard! That man
Could make this all be done! And out He ran
Toward rising suns of madness to rebel
Against that swaying force that makes us yell:
For aches of gaudy force; began thus man!
My dying has stately ended my mind
From all beside that which has been slowly
Accumulating from the ashen dust
Above my tomb; my crypt; mankind refined?
The unholy reconsidered holy—
Man’s domain will rapturously combust.</p>

<p>Obviously, there is much work to be had on my part. These are terribly rough, but, as you asked, I felt I ought to show you. Your post was great. Forgive me if again it takes a few days to get back to whatever replies you produce. I have been ridiculously busy, with planning my senior project, building a writing portfolio, directing one play and leading in another, keeping up with my independent studies, et cetera, the sort of things that I am sure consume all your lives as well.</p>