<p>Both of my dds attended (or are still attending) CTCL schools. Older dd just graduated from Evergreen. She absolutely loved it. She loved the way the learning was set up in programs, not classes, the fact they had evaluations (more like the real world) rather than grades. I would say that school would be accepting of anyone. </p>
<p>Younger dd is attending Eckerd College in St. Petersburg. What she really appreciates is the small class size, that all classes are taught by full professors, the close relationship students develop with their mentor and other professors and the feeling that the students are faces, not numbers.</p>
<p>@fcrmom: Rhodes, while it is about 3/4 white, is located in a city that is majority black, about 60%. The black student association on campus is one of the stronger student organizations. The mentoring program the students have for themselves is a model for other programs we offer.</p>
<p>I went to Antioch College and so did my older sister. Definitely changed both of our lives in only good ways. The college is back in business and doing everything right.</p>
<p>Playing devilās advocate ā every college is a CTCL college. Practically every moment at that age is potentially life changing. The question is how and why do you feel these moments that changed your life could have ONLY come at these schools?</p>
<p>My son will be attending Hendrix College in the fall. He was accepted at several other CTCL schools as well. I truly believe that many of them offer a consciously differentiated educational experience.</p>
<p>fcrmom, these colleges tend to be incredibly open-minded and welcoming, no matter where they are located. My son goes to a large public high school that is very diverse in terms of socioeconomic circumstances, race, sexual orientation, etc. Even though he is not a minority, he would not feel comfortable in a āvanillaā environment and in fact was turned off by several schools we visited before honing in on the CTCL list. If you can, you really should visit a few to see what feels right.</p>
<p>cbug, I get your point, but I disagree. Yes, this stage of life is inherently transformative. And no one can answer your question, because it is impossible to compare actual experiences to the path not taken. But back to my original point, I think the advantage of a lot of these and other small colleges is their ability to focus on a few things that are important to their missionāundergraduate research, service learning, foundations in the classics, or whatever. I donāt think the mid-sized private colleges or large research universities are able to offer the same things, or at least without a lot of work on the part of the student seeking them.</p>
<p>I think sally305 is on to somethingā¦research schools (including the elite private ones like Northwestern) donāt make it as easy to have that ātransformativeā experience. You really have to seek it out and most students donāt bother but instead takethe path of least resistance. Iām thinking the CTCL schools wonāt allow that to happen quite so easily because of things like the Hendrix Odyssey and the Wooster ISP.</p>
<p>fcrmom, Donāt be too swayed by location. My Dās school is in small-town Indiana, not exactly a hotbed of diversity. The college, though, is very diverse, welcoming not only the American minorities you mention, but international students as well (12% of the student body, I think). Dās first roommate was from Palestine.</p>
<p>Portland, OR is a very friendly town. Canāt comment on too many of the others, but generally kids that find themselves in these schools become quite close because its such a self-selecting group</p>
<p>HaystackāRight. And in super-competitive environments, taking the path of least resistance is often necessary to succeed. I graduated from Northwestern years agoāand quickly found after I arrived that it wasnāt āworth itā to explore topics simply because they interested me if most of the kids in a class were completely driven to get an A and were often majors in that subject. I was scared I wouldnāt fare well on the grading curve and that the workload just to keep up would add too much to my stress.</p>
<p>I only wish I had known about small liberal arts colleges when I was in high school. I think one of them would have been a better fit for me. As an aside, my son didnāt even apply to Northwestern (or any similar schools), even though he had the credentials and was a double legacy. He wants to use college as a time to explore his interests and grow as a person, not kill himself trying to compete against more driven kids. He does expect to be very marketable for a job or advanced degree when he graduatesāitās just how he gets there. We are very confident that he has made the right choice.</p>
<p>I love this thread! My S is a graduating Senior and a " take the path less traveled"type kid, fiercely independent and is interested in a multitude of subjects. He was never driven by grades in HS, just the learning. The classroom experience was probably the most important thing he looked for when comparing colleges. He is not going to a CTCL school, but a similarly type LAC school know for itās teaching and Freshman Experience program. It is in the middle of nowhere. When he went out for a visit for accepted students day, the thing that really stood out was the sense of community at the school. After his visit to the classroom, the deal was sealed. After being at an uber competitive HS, where kids are obsessed with grades, he was looking for a different type of college experience,and like sally said, he wanted a place where he could take all sorts of classes, and grow as a person, and the hot bed of competition can wait for med school. I am very happy for him and confident he will have a successful life.</p>
<p>To express the contrary view, Iāve always thought that CTCL was nothing but a clever marketing gimmick primarily aimed at well-to-do families with excessively coddled children who either donāt have what it takes to get into a first tier school or who under performed in high school. And thatās fine ā itās their money, and if they can afford and want to pay full price for a second tier school thatās their business. I just hate to see students and their families borrowing money to pay for these schools when they clearly have less expensive options. Any college is what you make of it. Do you really want to help your kid get a good start in life? Do whatever it takes to get the kid through college without having them take on debt and without depleting your own assets. Make it possible for your kid to truly make their own choices after college graduation without having to think about debt. Again, not really my business, I know, but I guarantee you that, when all is said and done, your children will be grateful.</p>
<p>There are no stereotypes in that sentence ā at least not mine. Iām talking about CTCLās marketing tactics and whom THEY target/stereotype.</p>
<p>Besides, how useful is this thread if everybody says the same thing?</p>
<p>CTCL schools are expensive and, generally speaking, not particularly well endowed. To keep going they need kids who can ā or are willing, at least ā to pay full price. Hence, the marketing that I have described. This is just how I see it.</p>
<p>Hey, Iām wondering why selective schools arenāt really on the list? Is it because they are very cutthroat or what? Top LACs are amazing experiences, but none of them are on the list. Iām just curious to see the reasoning behind this. None of the colleges on the list are in the range I am considering.</p>
<p>I am not sure how well endowed the CTCL schools are, but many have more than adequate endowments, monetarily, that is.</p>
<p>Very few students at many, if not most, of the CTCL schools are full pay. Most do pretty substantial tuition discounting. Look at the CDS For each school an you will see this. We would be full pay at any state school and many of the CTCL schools will be only marginally more expensive. Often, for a better experience, for my coddled and marginally intelligent son.</p>
<p>Iāve always thought that CTCL was a refreshing palliative to the hype about so-called āfirst tierā schools, aimed primarily at rational parents with dearly beloved children who are savvy enough to understand that itās not about the nameplate on the degree but rather on the education (broadly defined) that leads to that degree.</p>
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<p>Which completely contradicts your first sentence which, as LasMa accurately points out, is full of stereotypes.</p>
<p>(And, FWIW, my daughter is off in August to a public university, so Iām not just trying to justify my own decision.)</p>
<p>@novaparent, should read the book CTCL. My S1 was offered some of the largest merit awards to many several of the LACās listed in this book. They are not second tier schools, lol! My S1 choose UVA in the end, so although he ended up at our āstate flagshipā, the cost to attend Denison would have been $10,000 LESS per year than our instate tution at UVA (full tuition ride for NMF). Denison is ranked #49 of LACās --you should pick up a copy of the USNWR 2012 edition. Your ātierā information is inaccurate, so I think you may want to familiarize yourself with how schools are actually ranked (not because I feel they hold much weight, but so that you donāt come across as ignorant about the rankings/tiers).</p>
<p>Btw, my D1 is choosing to apply ED to one of the CTCL. There are some wonderful colleges included in this book! </p>
<p>Keep reading here on CC and do some more college research. There is a wealth of information here if you let go of what youāve āheardā.</p>
<p>To address several of the stereotypes you claim youāre not perpetuating, I go to one of the so-called CTCLs, and my family is definitely not well-to-do. I am receiving a lot of (need-based) financial aid to attend. I suspect that to you, first-tier means the first 20 universities on USNWRās ranking and/or the Ivy League, and many of my peers turned down precisely those schools so that they could come here and get the type of education they wanted. As for underperforming, the average high-school GPA of my peers was 3.9.</p>
<p>Iāve heard great things about many of the schools on the CTCL list, and although the name is a marketing gimmick, the way any label is, I tend to believe thereās a reason most of them are so well-regarded.</p>
<p>Iāve just visited several schools with my son ā some CTCL, some not. While it may be true that, with the passage of time, CTCL has become a marketing tool for some, I think they were put on the list in the first place for valid reasons. It is true that they are not the most selective LACs, but for some kids that is a good thing ā¦ not because they need coddling, but because some kids donāt do well in a supercompetitive environment. I know this from experience, as I went to a very selective LAC, and at times the pressure was far more intense than I think it needed to be.
The CTCL schools weāve seen (Goucher, Wooster, Beloit, and Lawrence) have a different vibe about them, compared to some other LACs weāve visited. At the CTCL schools, students we met and overheard seemed genuinely engaged and excited by their education, and talked with obvious warmth about their professors and even the college president. At some of the non-CTCL schools, the kids were bright enough, but seemed to view college more as a place to get your ticket punched. Obviously not all students fit those descriptions, but I did notice a difference.</p>
<p>Respectfully, you are making huge generalizations about thousands of kids at non-CTCL schools solely on the basis of brief college visits with your son. That simply isnāt fair.</p>
<p>I remember reading an interview with Pope several years ago, when a new edition of his book came out. He was asked why schools ā Grinnell being one of them, as I recall ā had been dropped from the list. His response? They had become either too selective or too well known, and thus were no longer a āsecretā that needed to be marketed. Does this mean that Grinnell is no longer special, and no longer āchanges lives?ā Hardly.</p>
<p>To the contrary, the interview confirmed that CTCL is a marketing gimmick. The only difference between schools in the book and the top LACs is that the top LACs donāt need the book. In the final analysis, CTCL schools are all fine, and probably better than most, but thereās nothing unique or āspecialā about any of them. They donāt get the best students, they donāt have the top programs, they donāt have the biggest endowments, and they donāt give the best financial aid. And thatās just the way it is.</p>