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<p>…and unethical, except the financial case. Obviously, they KNEW with near certainty that they would jump at MIT if offered, so the ED app was a sham. Brown makes it clear on its website that ED is ED to the liberal arts college only. Admission to PMLE and other programs is separate, and only those who will attend Brown regardless of PMLE should apply ED. Or, perhaps your student had a reading comprehension issue? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Belle， please contact me.</p>
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<p>Good point. But googling, I found notes from the Dean that basically said, ‘don’t apply ED if finances are an issue.’ Your D’s college also offers EA, correct?</p>
<p>“Obviously, they KNEW with near certainty that they would jump at MIT if offered, so the ED app was a sham.”</p>
<p>This is false in each case.</p>
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<p>Colleges are trying to be the “bigger person”. They have their reputation to consider. A college does not want any negative press, like an article about how they refused to release an ED applicant, so they avoid it by simply releasing the student. Even worse, the college does not want a lawsuit. A student certainly isn’t as concerned with their reputation, when it comes to choices like these, as a college is. </p>
<p>I don’t think it is currently a big issue, but it could escalate into one. I think it is ok for an to back out of their agreement if they receive less financial aid than they reasonably expected, hopefully compared to their original calculations on the EFC calculator. In that case, the applicant also should be able to appeal to admissions to see if it could be adjusted. If an applicant has a general idea of how much aid they should be receiving, knows that they cannot afford the college with this amount of aid, and still applies ED, I think it is highly unethical. If an applicant does not get as much merit as they wanted, I think it is even more unethical. The contract may not be a legal contract, but applicants should still feel an obligation to not break it.</p>
<p>Quick question:</p>
<p>how about if you go to college at another country?</p>
<p>For example, let’s say that I got accepted to college"A" by ED. However, I applied to college in another country and got accepted there too. Can I back out on college"A" and go to college in another country? Is this binding only in USA or does it apply internationally? Thanks :)</p>
<p>"Colleges are trying to be the “bigger person”. They have their reputation to consider. A college does not want any negative press, like an article about how they refused to release an ED applicant, so they avoid it by simply releasing the student. Even worse, the college does not want a lawsuit. A student certainly isn’t as concerned with their reputation, when it comes to choices like these, as a college is. "</p>
<p>This is 100% speculation–it seems much more reasonable to judge colleges by their actions than by an imagined rationale behind those actions (especially a rationale that posits a motive perpendicular to the actions themselves).</p>
<p>@marvin100 ok, then it is 100% speculation for you to claim that colleges do not take the ED agreement seriously.</p>
<p>Has anyone applied ED without visiting the school?</p>
<p>"@marvin100 ok, then it is 100% speculation for you to claim that colleges do not take the ED agreement seriously."</p>
<p>Not exactly–it’s informed by their actions, which have so far consisted of releasing everyone from the “contract.” It’s very possible they may be thinking the exact opposite in their heart of hearts, but the evidence doesn’t point that direction.</p>
<p>Re: the a minor cannot enter into an agreement arguement -</p>
<p>That is why for the ED a parent’s signature is required on the application.</p>
<p>In response to post #42 People should NOT apply early decision unless they KNOW if they could afford to attend. That goes for everyone and that is why everyone does not apply early. The unfortunate thing is that people do not honor contracts or have any morals. Yes, I did say morals. It is wrong to apply early and than bail out. I do not believe that parents sign that line and are clueless. I do believe that kids think they could game the system and usually that is because their parents taught them that they could. I read a situation on one of the college sites that had me cringing because it was clear that the student was gaming the process. I had to stop looking because the kids attitude was making me sick.</p>
<p>I agree that it is unethical to back out of an ED agreement for nonfinancial reasons. But, again, as SlitheyTove points out in post #42, the language of the ED agreement specifically allows people to decline an offer for financial reasons. Schools advise applicants not to apply ED if they need to compare financial aid offers. No one says, “Don’t apply if you know you can’t afford it.” How would you even know? Unless momma-three is saying you should only apply ED if you can pay the full COA without assistance, which is clearly NOT what schools are expecting (hence, the language allowing people to back out for financial reasons). How is it immoral or dishonorable to back out for a reason that is clearly identified as a VALID reason?</p>
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<p>Obviously, not with Marvin’s test prep “students”. (But perhaps for many in the world, ‘ethics’ only applies to US citizens.) :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I think there’s a gray area where 10 minutes of research would suggest to many parents that ED is not going to work-- if COA is $55,000; you can pay $20,000; your EFC is $35,000 and the school usually meets about 65% of need and gives very few merit scholarships-- you can guess that it’s unlikely to work. I guess I’m wrong to say “borderline unethical”-- but I do think it sets a kid up for a big disappointment and is counterproductive for the applicant at the school.</p>
<p>I agree, Gwen Fairfax, that little bit of research could be instructive. Some people like to believe in miracles, although when a kid’s expectations are on the line, realism is called for. For some people, optimism may cross the line into delusion (“I know my EFC is $35K and I know they don’t give a lot of merit, but my kid is super-deluxe special so, maybe, crossing fingers …”).</p>
<p>bluebayou, yes my D’s college offers EA.</p>
<p>marvin1000, applying your logic, there is no right and wrong in the world - merely people’s opinions. It’s ok to sign an agreement and then back out for whatever reason you choose if YOU think it’s ok. Following your reasoning, as long as <em>you</em> don’t think something a big deal then <em>you</em> can do whatever the heck you want, and the rest of us can just deal with it. That’s a very self-centered, immature, morally muddy value system. I’m not trying to impose MY values on you - I’m trying to get you to see that society depends on being able to trust people who sign an agreement to actually take that agreement seriously.</p>
<p>Agreeing with Gwen Fairfax and absweetmarie about the financial side. We only allowed our D to apply ED because we knew we would be able to pay for her college even if she didn’t get any aid. (Perhaps it helped that she was our second child, we had been down the FAFSA/CSA profile road before, and had a very good idea what to expect). There’s an awful lot of wishful thinking that goes into the college app process, and since colleges DO give merit aid and FA and everyone wants to think their kid is the most deserving… It’s really not fair to do that to a child though. I know a young woman who worked her butt off in hs and got admitted to Georgetown and Villa Nova (NOT ED), only to have her parents tell her in APRIL that they couldn’t afford either of those schools. She very maturely accepted a full ride to a 2nd tier state school, but it was a bitter pill to swallow. In the long run it worked out fine - she excelled at her college, wowed the professors, got great recommendations and grades, and is now in a PhD program at a very-well regarded national university.</p>
<p>My S did not apply ED, because he wasn’t sure which of his top 3 colleges was really his top choice.</p>
<p>Please answer my question. I really need a response!</p>
<p>dlthf1026, you should ask the school to which you have applied (or intend to apply) ED to explain their policies.</p>
<p>your ethics are YOUR ethics dlthf1026. How much is your “word” worth?</p>