Both of my kids (raised in an upper middle class home) have SO’s who are FGLI.
Both are doing well. One transferred from an Ivy to a school he liked better, worked, heading to grad school etc.
The other graduated college, took some time to figure things out, and is currently earning a certificate in an area of great interest to him.
From Bryan Cranston’s wiki (breaking bad lead):
After college, Cranston began his acting career in local and regional theaters, getting his start at the Granada Theater in San Fernando Valley. He had previously performed as a youth, but his show-business parents had mixed feelings about their son being involved in the profession, so he did not act until years later. He performed weddings for $150 a service to help with his income. He also worked as a waiter, night-shift security guard at the gates of a private LA community, truck loader, camera operator for a video dating service, and a CCTV security guard at a supermarket.
@Htas, I always wanted to do things that interest me, but creating at least a modest amount of intergenerational wealth was always something that I wanted to accomplish. So both a sideline and a lesser goal. I want to provide/leave enough to ensure that they have a good foundation to be successful. At this point, it looks like ShawD will benefit more than ShawSon because ShawSon is on a path that is much stronger economically (his net worth on paper is already pretty high).
Well, it appears that about half of what I posted earlier about what DH & I have told our kids re: degrees that would offer better paying jobs was true.
Because my DH has turned around on a dime (LOL) and just decided that 1 of our kids (who’s interested in computer programming) should ONLY consider engineering or a BS in computer science and that ANYTHING ELSE is poo.
I kid you not.
Computer programming-interested kid does NOT care very much for chemistry or physics, AND finds the concept of taking 1.5-2 yr of Calculus & Linear Algebra + a year of engineering physics + college chemistry to be daunting. Kid said, “If that’s required for a comp sci BS, then I’m not majoring in that. I’ll do MIS instead.”
…to which, my apparently elitist DH (yes, I’m complaining here) said to me behind closed doors, “She just needs to suck it up and do it” and “An MIS major is slang_for_poo” and other nonsense.
So then I did some research online and what do you know…our state flagship (U of A) Computer Science dept offers both a BS and a BA in computer science. Showed that to DH. He verbally poo’d on the BA concept.
So then I did some more research. The basic difference between the 2, at least at THAT particular institution, is not nearly as much math required, you DON’T have to take Linear Algebra for the BA, do NOT have to take a boat load of physics & chemistry, too. Pretty much ALL of the other stuff is the same.
Went back to DH and explained all this. He verbally poo’d on it again, hanging onto the dumb notion that “it’s a BS in Comp Sci or nothing,” which, as we all know in the larger tech job market out there, it’s more about what your skills are/what you know how to do than what your degree is in, what school the degree came from, etc.
Ironically, my DH is a manager in IT, has to interview people for job openings at his employer (i.e., job openings where they need people who know how to code/write scripts for stuff), and he has often complained about how hard it is to find people with X, Y, or Z skills. Even he himself has stated before stuff like, “I almost don’t care if they didn’t major in computer science, I just need somebody who can do ___.”
…which, therefore, just proves my point to him. 
MIS as a college major is typically a business-based major which is more for those who want to manage computers and software, rather than design and develop them.
If you mean University of Arizona, the BS in CS major requires two science courses, but they do not have to be chemistry and/or physics: Supporting Science Requirements (BS Students) | Computer Science . Math requirements are calculus 1 and either calculus 2 or linear algebra (plus discrete math which is under the CS department): Bachelor of Science | Computer Science
The BA in CS major there does not have any math or science requirements for the major (other than discrete math under the CS department), beyond whatever there is for general education: Bachelor of Arts | Computer Science
Arizona State University requires for the BS in CS major a two course science sequence (biology, chemistry, geology, or physics) and an additional lab science course. For math, it requires calculus 1 and 2, and either calculus 3 or a logic for CS course, plus linear algebra and statistics courses. https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/major-map/ASU00/ESCSEBS/null/ALL/2022
to your husband’s view on the matter. But it looks like your kid can do the BS in CS major at University of Arizona and not have to take chemistry or physics if ok with other science courses (biology, physiology, and geology are in the list), and only needs for math calculus 1, linear algebra, and discrete math (which are not a lot but discrete math is essential and the others are highly desirable for CS majors).
I would never tell another parent what they should do with their money.
I have been off of this thread for awhile, because honestly it had gotten to the point of frustration for me. But as the parent of a conservatory musician, I’d like to express that many of us go into the college/conservatory process as thoughtful and data driven as any other parents and students. I can speak only to the world of classical music, but once the application/audition process for college and conservatory is completed, one has a pretty good idea of the talent level and probable success rate of the student. Even moreso when you weigh in the scholarship amount. So for example, getting a full scholarship at a major conservatory means that the teacher selecting you feels you have a very high probability of success. And for those students selected to mid-range programs, there are still of course plenty of opportunities for success as musicians evolve at different rates. And there are so many opportunities outside of pure performance.
My kid will be very happy making $30K his first few years out of school. He will graduate debt free (thanks to a full scholarship for his talent and incredibly hard work). I can honestly say that you could offer him $500K to drop his music and pursue a CS degree and he would kindly but firmly decline. He happens to be great at math, but finds it mind numbingly boring unless it is part of music theory. Like many young musicians, he is happy with a beautiful and expensive instrument along with a worn tuxedo and a very frugal lifestyle. Will this change down the road? Who knows? Is this time wasted? Not the way I see it.
@anotheroboemom
Yes, I also was saying earlier that just to be admitted to these highly selective audition-based degree programs is like an initial “cut.” Getting in doesn’t guarantee a successful career, but the programs think you have what it takes to enter the field.
I also agree that some who don’t have kids in these fields may not discern the level of deep passion those in this field have for it and offering a job where they could make a lot more money is NOT a lure. I know for my performing arts daughter, her passion for performing arts is part of her inner being and cannot be separated from who she is as a person. It’s not just a job. It’s a part of herself. That is perhaps hard for others to grasp if they are simply looking for majors or career to earn the highest income possible and they tolerate the field as a means to an end.
From the perspective of an arts lover, I’m very, very grateful that there are families encouraging their young musicians, actors, artists, etc… to follow their passions!
I’m at Bienen multiple times/month and am regularly blown away by the talent of these young people. I hope they all go on to continue to be successful in their chosen field. They’ve already made it so far!
So, thank you!
Even as a non musical parent, I can see this passion in others.
Yes, frugality goes a long way to maximizing career path options. Being able to live happily on $30k per year gives a wide range of financially sustainable career paths.
In contrast, the kids who want $150k per year out of college have very few (and very difficult to attain) career path choices that will not be financially disappointing to them.
Not having the math background will limit options for certain CS jobs. Our S (in ML research group) uses math on a daily basis and it’s needed in many other development areas as well. But, your point about IT type jobs is correct - prob not much need for the math.
I have sympathy for your H’s point of view :-). The Physics and Chemistry are not important. The Math is. The programming jobs are the low skilled jobs that are getting outsourced. Either you up the complexity by becoming stronger in math and doing AI or Systems or serious Engineering on the cloud. Or you up the complexity by managing complexity of the technology infrastructure of large regular non tech businesses (e.g. Banks etc). You need to manage complexity of some kind to get paid. Otherwise that job is going away to a different country.
The parenting question though is how much, how long and under what conditions you are willing to subsidize your kid post college. How affluent the parents are also enters into the equation.
Assuming the parents can afford the subsidy without affecting their retirement or opportunities for other children, do you put a limit on how much/for how long? Do you set conditions on meeting certain goals within a certain time frame? If it is a type of career where most people have to accept lower pay and “pay their dues” in early years, makes perfect sense for the parents, if they can afford it, to help their kid. I am a big believer though that choices have consequences, and if parents completely shield consequences over an indefinite period of time, they are not helping their kid in the long run. Helping with rent/groceries so a kid can live in a safe neighborhood and not subsist on junk food is one thing, paying for a luxury apartment and giving them a Gold Amex is another. The examples referred to above of people who ultimately succeeded in the “arts” for the most part involve real passion because these artists were passionate and driven enough to meet and overcome struggles and adversity. “Passion” is pretty cheap if Mom and Dad allow their kid to continue to live a lifestyle as if they succeeded vs what would be economic reality without the subsidy.
For parents who are financially constrained, I’d think the leash would have to be shorter with very strict rules, almost like a scholarship.
I’m so sorry. It seems as if we are speaking a different language in this conversation. To me narrow means limited in number not limited in one’s reasoning. I certainly did not mean narrow as a derogatory term. If one person sees thousands of majors as important and worthy of admiration and another person sees only 100s of careers as valuable and worthy of pursuit then at least in my mind the first person has more limits/boundaries on their definition of valuable. I think that is totally fine. If you value diamond and pearl jewelry and I happen to value diamonds, rubies, emeralds, pearls and sapphires then both our opinions are subjective. But the subset of jewels that you value is narrower than the subset that I value, right? Perhaps you happen to like ones that are white or milky in color and I happen to like jewels of every single color. What is wrong with that?
But maybe I am misunderstanding your reply? If so, I apologize. I actually think it is fine to value a smaller set of careers (or jewels for that matter 
). I just happen to value a larger set, but I truly didn’t mean to suggest that valuing quantitative careers was a sign of narrow-mindedness.
The title of this thread uses the phrase “better paying jobs.” Looking at this thread title financial definition, many may find outcomes for music conservatories less positive. For example, I looked up New England Conservatory of Music on CollegeScorecard. The median tax reported earnings 3 years after graduating is listed as a little under $19k. While some grads have extreme success both financially and professionally, I expect most grads will have earnings closer to this ~$20k range, which some may find challenging.
Students who get full scholarships to major conservatories is a small enough group that typical outcome stats are limited, but most students interested in studying at a conservatory do not fall in to that group. One should consider typical outcome for similar types of students, rather than just look at best possible outcome or anecdotes of a small number of grads who had good outcomes.
Career choice and major choice should be a balance of many considerations. One should obviously consider their personal interests and personal enjoyment, but one should also consider likely post-graduate outcome, including likely financial outcomes. Hopefully, the student can find an acceptable balance between these factors and others. This does not mean one should avoid fields associated with lower earnings, but one should be aware of likely outcomes when choosing which field(s) and careers to pursue. Having a backup plan to protect against less desirable outcomes can also be helpful.
My own daughter who pursued a performing arts degree was well aware of how competitive the field is. In fact, most jobs in it are not long lasting by the sheer nature of the work. There were NO parent subsidies immediately following graduation day (in her case, age 20). I’m sure in many fields, there ARE parents who still help their kids financially after college or the kid even lives at home. But that was not my kid’s option. Sure, she made a lot less the first few years out of college than she does now. But she was self supporting. Many in the arts are doing arts jobs supplemented by survival jobs, and she had friends doing that, sure. In her case, all her “survival jobs” were professional and in her in field, though were thought of to supplement performance work. After several years, she no longer took on those “survival jobs” though they were not menial jobs…like being a music director for shows, teaching and accompanying in BFA college programs, etc. My kid NEVER had a back up plan or second major or minor. She was all in. She is not the only one from her cohort earning their entire income several years now out of college entirely from professional jobs in her field. Many of her classmates are doing so, just not all of them. There was gradual build up to a higher income because one thing often leads to another and one becomes more established.
For the ones who were not able to work out a full time career in the field, they either gave it up, could not hack the demands, or went in another direction. But I don’t see that as a failure. Many people change jobs or direction. My kid stayed in the field. However, even then, besides performing, which is the main part of her college training, she ended up with three careers that are concurrent because one thing led to another and people paid her for these other talents. I often encourage those going into her field to have a diverse skill set. That way, one is always working and not simply relying on being cast in something. My daughter still is a performer, but much more than that now, even though she only had formal training in the performing end of her career. So, thing evolve.
If someone gets a degree in the arts, it doesn’t mean they can only do one thing when they graduate. They still have earned a college degree and have learned skills that can be applied to many sorts of jobs. Their college degree has not gone to waste even if they don’t make it in the original intended type of job or even if out of choice, change direction (they may even decide they don’t like the lifestyle, for example…my kid’s job is not 9-5 or just five days per week! and is not for everyone).
Yes, anyone going into the arts should understand the competitive nature of it and the challenges involved, and if they are clear on that and want to go for it and have the talent, why not? It is not always a permanent life decision. And for some, it DOES work out. If nobody with the passion and talent ever tried to go for it, we’d have nobody fulfilling these roles in society.
Tech job outsourcing overseas has been going on for a very long time. And it’s not necessarily just low skilled jobs that get outsourced.
However, my overall point is that my DH’s point of view is very black and white, where the attitude is “It’s either ___ or nothing.” And as everyone’s been discussing on this thread, nothing is that black and white.
It all sort of depends, in a way, on what one’s definition of happiness and success are. So, for example, if “happiness & success” = working for Google, Facebook, or Apple in Silicon Valley with an engineering or computer science degree, then guess what? My kid, by that definition, will NOT be a success. Nor will the music conservatory kid who’s going to earn $30k after college graduation. But that’s a very limited view of success. AND not everybody working at Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. are happy. 
There are PLENTY of jobs across the US that require tech skills. PLENTY of jobs where you don’t need to have gone to a Top 25 school and gotten a BS in engineering or computer science with a 4.0 GPA.
There are far more “successful” jobs out there other than just doctor, lawyer, engineer, or Wall Street investment banker.
Your kid is super impressive and is like every person I know who is successful in the arts (whether performing or behind the scenes). There is not much one can do to guide except graduate without debt.
Thanks. I agree it would be tougher for a young person to have college debt. My kids were fortunate to not be responsible for any of the college loans. Paying for college and the associated loans required to attend was what we provided to our kids, and then they were on their own once done their schooling. I realize some kids do have to pay student loans (D’s husband paid his student loans off).