sbinaz, You are absolutely right. In fact, there are plenty of good jobs that do not require a four year degree. Our school district has a vocational campus, much like a junior college, that trains kids for technical manufacturing jobs. The program require students to go half time to their normal high school and half time to the vocational campus, and they graduate with their high school diploma and a certificate in a marketable skill - CNC programmer/operator, machinist, programmer, mechtronics tech, etc. - in five years. During an information session, they were touting case studies where 21 year old graduates were making over $100K per year as machinists. And the program is free to students, because it is part of the public school system.
Yes, we put a limit on things. Also, kids are expected to do well and graduate on time. They know this.
Although we could afford to pay for them post graduation, we will not. I would not take away the experience of having roommates, nor buying a car within budget, choosing which job or place to live. I want our kids to live their lives. They have no idea how much they’d actually inherit ( nor do we given inflation). But they know that we have done well. And they know that we are frugal. They also know we weigh money matters before making decisions.
I took the kids to the ATM when they were young to deposit my checks from work so they could see it wasn’t a one way door. They have worked as teens, because I want them to learn to work with the public and learn that $250 jeans are not worth it. They both were offered management roles (one at 16, one at 17) It’s a low wage job, but the owner saw they actually work. The older one works another job too and has gotten a bonus.
I have a SIL and sister who think kids shouldn’t work unless they have to and who have pampered their kids and paid for their lives. Those cousins have very different expectations than ours. We have another set of cousins who have worked as well, they are more like our own and now doing quite well in the workforce.
Not sure about this. It would entirely depend on the situation, IMO. If I supported a low wage, find yourself type of lifestyle at what point do I decide to stop. My personal issue is, it’s their life so if I’m supporting and then stop, I’m intervening. Not helpful to adulting, IMHO.
Even IF I could have afforded to help support my kids financially after they finished their schooling, I would not have because I think it is important for them to start adulting.
I did pay for their weddings as I received that from my own parents as well, but that is not the same as ongoing support.
100% agree with this.
I also think there is a sense of pride that comes with earning ones own way.
I know a number of people who are still supporting adult children who should have fully launched by now. Lots of complaining about how their kids are entitled and not hustling to find work. Um…maybe because that’s being enabled.
Unlike some of you, I really don’t know any parents who are supporting able-bodied adult children. Gotta agree, it can only happen if the parents allow it. But I completely agree with the statements quoted above.
And as @Htas mentioned, working as teens has many benefits. They not only get to see the relation between effort/hours worked and money spent, but they learn valuable lessons about what it takes to be a good worker, and helps them home in on skills they are particularly good or bad at.
My kids earned money as teens too.
Would nepotism hiring or hiring enabled by parental connections be included in this category? Or only monetary subsidies?
Personally I think there is a difference.
My H’s first job was for his family’s company and he worked his tail off. Compensation was actually less than other offers he got out of school and he put in way, way more hours than he would have otherwise.
Yes, I would include the ones you mentioned in my statement, i.e. those are not at all a common occurrence in my world.
This thread has been eye-opening to me in that regard. Some of these things seem more common in other circles, and I’m not exactly sure why.
ETA after seeing @momofboiler1 's post, I didn’t have those others in mind when I made my post, and agree there can be a difference, depending on the circumstances. The first topic refers to continuing support, the latter getting their foot in the door.
I found it common in the Old World, in societies where you walk out the door and people can immediately place you, your family, etc.
And I found it uncommon (so I thought) in the New World until I got older. Some industries are rife with this. Some are not. If someone gets emailed or faxed or mailed with random CVs, what CV do you think gets there most attention - that or the one that gets handed to you personally by a co-worker (and then you get reminded by co-worker).
It does seem to vary with industry, and competitiveness of the job. And I guess I can understand the willingness to “put on the top of the pile” the resume that comes from someone you know and trust vs 1,000 random online resumes. This certainly becomes more normal when further along in one’s career. I guess I didn’t realize it was quite so common at the internship and first job phase.
Part of the challenge of breaking into those sorts of careers is building a network that can help get your resume higher up in the random pile.
Yup. Or career transition. I know artists who got their first art teacher job because of the networking effect. Those jobs are not easy to get.
Some industries rely heavily on recruiters to be the filter.
Strangely enough, I had to really let go to do so. My oldest was able to work the first year of Covid. It was hard to let my kid work with the public when so much was unknown (re: Covid). On the other hand, I thought it was so important for my kid to get a Summer job. I think most of parenting is like this, you know what you want to do, but it’s still hard to let go as a parent and actually do it.
My industry is probably one of those not prone to nepotism. But I also don’t see the “connections” factor playing a role in any of my friends in completely different careers.
Or maybe it’s just that the kids I know have no desire to work in the same office with their parents, lol.
It’s great that your daughter has had so much success, but it is important to distinguish between a small number of anecdotal extreme results and typical results. For example, we’ve also seen anecdotal stories about a Dartmouth grad who lived in a homeless shelter; a Harvard grad who couldn’t get into finance, was working “{expletive} minimum wage jobs”, and says he strongly regrets his degree choice; etc. None of the above would be what I’d consider typical outcomes, although they are all possible outcomes. Expecting typical outcomes rather than extreme outcomes often leads to different decisions.
@Data10, I understand your point. First, this thread title is asking about our own kids, and so anecdotes seem relevant. But my point in my post that you quoted is that many of my D’s cohort from her college program are earning their entire income from professional jobs in the performing arts industry and she is not an outlier. I acknowledged that it is not true of every graduate of her program, but it sure is true from a significant number of them, many of whom are working at the highest levels of the field. I have acknowledged many times that it is a highly competitive field, but some do make it. Those who do are not necessarily “atypical,” but simply just some of those who pursue the field. Anyone going into such a field should do so with eyes wide open as to the competitiveness of it, the rigor, the long hours, the drive that it takes, and so on. But I would not discourage someone from trying, particularly if that person understands this, and has the drive and talent. As well, these college programs are very difficult to get into and so serve as a preliminary “cut” so to speak. In any case, the many I know of my kid’s friendship circle who are making it in the performing arts are not “extreme outcomes”…again, some make it, some don’t. This is the observation I have from her college program cohort and in fact, from her summer theater camp growing up…a significant number have done very well in the field and some others have dovetailed into something else.
To follow up on my post about 30 minutes ago…
I thought through my D’s peers in her college program when she attended, the ones I know about.
Just from her a cappella group alone (this is a group of about 15 singers), I can think of 9 who have performed on Broadway, several of them as leads, and some who have been nominated for a Tony Award and one who won one. I can think of at least 5 who performed Off Broadway and at least one on a National Tour. One has been a director Off Broadway. One has had original musicals staged Off Broadway.
From her classmates in her BFA program besides those mentioned above who were also in the program, I can think of at least 6 more who have been on Broadway. One has written, produced and acted in her own hit TV show. One has been a director and choreographer on Broadway, and one who has been a producer of Broadway and Off Broadway shows. Those are the ones off the top of my head who happen to be her friends and not the totality of her class in her college program.
If I add in the kids who were her friends from theater camp, a significant number have been on Broadway, including starring, starred in movies and TV shows, etc. These are just the ones who were her friends during her time there, not the many successful alumni from the camp over the course of years who include Broadway directors, movie stars, Oscar/Tony/Emmy winners, etc. Was it every alum? No, but a significant number, and it was merely a camp, not a college.
The comments you have listed in this thread suggest she is an extreme outlier. As I recall you mentioned watching her interviews on TV, being friends with Lin-Manuel Miranda, having professional recording deals, etc. I’m sure that’s not the typical outcome for students within her major.
I don’t doubt that there are also a good number other kids within her cohort who also have professional jobs and/or have comparable results, but that’s not the same as what I mean by “typical”. By “typical”, I mean the most common outcome, median outcome, or similar.
As an example, if I look up visual performing arts degrees at NYU, the median tax reported earnings 3 years after graduation were in the $20-$30k range. That’s the type of result that I’d consider typical for a NYU performing arts grad 3 years after graduation. A large portion appear to be working in the field, but there is a good chance of low enough income to be challenging, particularly since most live in high cost of living areas. Again, I’m not saying nobody should pursue such fields, just that they should be aware of typical outcomes when making career/major decisions.
Or if look further out, such as what happened to theater majors at Brown 10 years after graduation, it looks like the majority pursued graduate degrees. A typical results for Brown theater majors seems to be pursuing further degrees. By far, the most common grad degree was master’s in performing arts, still remaining in the field. Similarly at 10 years out, the majority continue to work in visual performance arts related field, often as independent actor/actress, writer/playwright, or a director. The typical result is continuing to work in the field, although the specific positions vary. The most common employer is “self-employed.” A significant minority also moved to a very different field, ranging from food server to fellow in pediatric cardiology.
Yes, three years after graduation, one might only earn $30,000, but my kid would be the first to tell you that it can take a number of years to become well established. I also agreed with you that anyone entering the field should be aware of the competitiveness of it and that not all will make it.
The results you gave from Brown (I’m familiar with Brown as one of my kids attended), show that many continue to work in the arts but in different capacities. I do believe that a degree in the field can lead to a variety of positions within it, not just performing.
I only share my observations and experiences since early in this thread, there were many naysayers who stated they would not allow their kids to pursue the arts or humanities, and success is possible in these fields and are not just as outliers. I never said all would make it or earn a high income.
I shared some “results” in a subsequent post that are simply off the top of my head from my D’s friends who attended her particular college BFA program and also some who attended her summer theater camp growing up who went onto a variety of college BA and BFA theater programs.
As others have pointed out, there is always someone who wins the lottery. The statistics, however, are not in your favor.