<p>I, like many others, have a university I dream of attending. And, like most others, cannot easily afford this prestigious university - let alone attending it for undergrad AND grad school. Other factors come into play too...is it better to begin seeking work with a bachelors from a prestigious university or does it have little effect compared to an "average" institution? When does graduate school really matter? And how do companies measure between two different graduate schools?</p>
<p>On a more personal note, my dream schools of choice are Cornell, Stanford, and Yale. I live in Michigan, and the most economical decision would be to go to UofM, and still get a very good education. After undergrad, I want to pursue a masters degree. Assuming I get accepted into all of them (hypothetically speaking), what pathway should I take? Should I attend one of my dream schools for undergrad while paying a lot more money compared to an already prestigious and cheap education (UofM) in hopes of higher returns at an entry level job? Or do I hold off, save money with a decent education at UofM, and possibly go to a dream school for grad? </p>
<p>Please share personal experiences and recommendations. Although grad school is a long way from now, it will definitely play a part in the undergrad college selection process. For now, this is a hypothetical question, but I'm sure it is real to many students now and hopefully, for me next year. Thanks!</p>
<p>All of your “dream schools” seem to be Ivy Leagues, have you visited these schools? Or are you in love with the idea of the prestige that those names bring? At the same time, like you said, UofM is still a great school, and reputable everywhere. I don’t think you would be able to get a better/ higher-paying job just by going somewhere else. </p>
<p>I think you need to consider where you will be happy. College is not just about getting a degree (although that is the point). It is about going somewhere where you will meet life-long friends and become the person you will be for the rest of your life. (I know this sounds cheesy, but it’s true.)</p>
<p>Do you like it at UofM? If you can picture yourself going there for four years - go. You will be thanking yourself later when you are graduating with much less in loans than all of your peers. Especially when you are staring down the expense of going to graduate school. (personal experience) You don’t say what area you are planning on going into. This may play a part in the decision. Depending on your field you may not have to pay for graduate school.</p>
<p>My experiences:
I attended a small unknown liberal arts college for undergraduate. I went there because I loved the people, not the prestige (obviously). I will be graduating this year with a double-major in mathematics and chemistry. To boost my application (and I would recommend this for any field) I did summer research programs, and got good grades (GPA: 3.99 - and yes, my school is competitive when it comes to grading). Not only did I get paid to do something that boosted my resume, but my research mentors were great recommendation writers later on.</p>
<p>I just finished applying for graduates PhD programs in the biosciences, and I will be attending the University of Michigan (my top choice compared to Washington University - which ranks among the Ivy leagues). I was accepted to Washington University in St. Louis (ranks among the Ivy Leagues for research), turned down Northwestern University’s invite to interview (didn’t want to live in Chicago, once I knew I was accepted elsewhere), accepted to University of Michigan, and University of Pittsburgh. MANY of the people I interviewed with attended Ivy Leagues and yet did not get accepted. I don’t think for graduate school it really matters much where you went as what you did. Certainly when looking for a job, they will look at the prestige of your graduate school and not your undergraduate school.</p>
<p>Overall:
Go where you think you will be happy and when you are there, work hard. The prestige of a school will not get you anywhere unless you do well too.</p>
<p>For graduate studies, you should be concerned more with the quality of education in the particular field you intend to study rather than with the “name” of the school overall. Unless your dream schools happen to be outstanding in the field you intend to study in graduate school, there’s no reason to fixate on them for graduate studies. </p>
<p>I happened to be lucky enough to attend my dream schools for undergrad and for grad school. But in my field, grad schools pay students to attend, and attending an undergraduate school with outstanding research opportunities is a critical factor in grad school admissions.</p>
<p>well my graduate school I wanted to get into were Stanford and Berkeley for masters. I did my undergraduate study in Georgia Tech and I can’t shake the feeling that it is second rate engineer school. To me here’s my thoughts on tier for engineer schools:</p>
<p>1st tier - MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Cal Tech
2nd tier - Georgia Tech, UIUC, CMU, University of Michigan, Cornell (Purdue and UT austin possibly) </p>
<p>I tried hard to get into graduate school for Stanford and Berkeley but I was rejected however, I tried my best to get into those schools and I have no regrets. Starting my Georgia Tech graduate school soon but I feel your pain as I look back and say what if I had little bit better GPA? </p>
<p>All I can say to you is try hard in school wherever you go and get the best grade you can in all classes. Start studying GRE vocab and quantitative early during the undergraduate if you goal is truly going all the way to getting master or PhD. If you intend on going for masters in engineer field, do some research within your school and see if that area is really the area you wanna get into. Research experience can really bost your admission to master program. good luck.</p>
<p>Also note for Christine’s comment,
recruiter will look at your undergraduate school and graduate school combined. If someone with same qualification but got better degree in undergraduate degree from better institution or university, who you think they will pick? It’s better to get into high ranking undergraduate school to be even qualify to get into best graduate schools in the future and I believe university of Michigan undergraduates have high chance at getting into top tier engineer school in the nation if you try hard in school.</p>
<p>@christine2010: Getting accepted into the Ivies, for me, is a lot more than getting into a school with a prestigious name. Of course it plays a part, but the schools that I mentioned are not in the top three for what I want to pursue - chemical engineering. Stanford is ranked 5th, UofM 12th, and Cornell 14th. Yale is the exception, I would go there to major in just chemistry where it is ranked 3rd. If I only cared about the rankings and prestige, I would have picked the 1, 2, and 3 schools. Instead, I am factoring in where I think I would fit in. I have visited UofM and Stanford and enjoyed both campuses. I guess what I’m trying to ask is if I equally like all of the schools, is it worth it to spend more money compared to UofM on a dream school for undergrad…knowing I can possibly go there for grad?</p>
<p>I think your job scenario is simplistic and DOES NOT mirror reality. </p>
<p>Yes, going to elite schools matter and make a difference. But so does personal /human connection. </p>
<p>What if the person from the elite school bombs their interview? What if they smell? What if the hiring director just likes the person from the lesser school? Or what if the person from the lesser school knows the recruiter’s sister’s baby daddy from back in the day? </p>
<p>You would be surprised how many qualified folks that went to top schools get passed up for jobs just because they did a lousy job of “connecting” with the person who does the hiring. </p>
<p>Basically, when it comes to hiring, it’s not all about so and so school or qualifications. It’s not that simple. The “can I see myself working with this person” factor makes a huge difference.</p>
<p>@ Louis XIII: your response is comforting. It makes me realize that employers and admission officers looks at that “persona/human connection” rather than just looking at the stats. I wish this was more true, because I definitely feel that compared to my peers with ACT scores of 35 and 36, with a 4.0, I will be diminished in the college process. But when it comes down to reality, I know that in a workplace, I will do the better job because I have more social skills. It is just really hard to show it on paper, and without interviews, how are the employers and AO’s supposed to know? I feel that having a prestigious university separates the applicant from the rest. And if I were to fit in at one of these universities and get accepted, it would be to my advantage for grad school and work. </p>
<p>And a question on your scenarios, do they apply to grad school…Do they have interviews? If yes, and they base acceptance on your personality, I would be confident in going to any undergrad school that fits me best financially, academically, and personally. But if not, I truly believe that attending an elite school is a significant point on a resume. Please prove me wrong.</p>
<p>@ Louis XIII
I never denied the fact that having connection helps you land a job. Alumni network within the school can greatly help one from getting a job and having good relation with your professor can really help with getting a job after graduating from school. The “can I see myself working with this person” is very important factor when hiring manager make decision. </p>
<p>But don’t deny the fact that having a degree from a higher ranked institute or university WILL GREATLY INCREASE THE CHANCE OF EVEN GETTING THE INTERVIEW. Compare the number of big corporation companies visiting top schools and under #50 ranked schools. </p>
<p>The interview skills can be learned. You memorize what you have done and what to say in certain question. however, technical questions you face in interview, who will have higher chance of getting it right ? someone from higher ranked university or no name college? Connection can only get you to a certain point.</p>
<p>Note: most of your dream schools are not on this list. Some schools that are otherwise not as prestigious, are ranked very highly (University of Minnesota is tied for 3rd right below MIT and Berkeley). Just keep this in mind when looking at graduate schools. The prestige of the PROGRAM in your field matters much more than the prestige of the the SCHOOL.</p>
<p>Thanks Christine2010 for the list. Knowing that my dream schools (except for Stanford) as well as UofM is not on the list, I still think I should attend the university that suits me best. My dream colleges have prestigious names, and although they are not on the list provided, I do not believe they are much farther down. I don’t think it would be right to choose a university where I don’t fit in just because it is ranked higher by five or even ten, positions. I think as gtgblows said, the name goes a long way, and as long as the program’s prestige is decent, it will still be my advantage. </p>
<p>In reality, how much should one sacrifice to attend the highest ranked university they are accepted at according to the USNEWS? My personal opinion is to go wherever makes you happy, which in my case, are the dream schools I listed. Is is worth giving up the opportunity to go to dream school like Yale or Cornell for Minnesota? Is it worth sacrificing the happiness I would feel at a school I’ve dreamed of attending, for higher returns in the future because of the rankings? I don’t know…Do employers pay you based on the scale of USNEWS rankings? I doubt it. So although I show that I want to go to a university with a prestigious name, I also want to attend because I like it there. Graduates from Cornell and Yale, I think, will still be at an advantage compared to a Gopher, simply because of the Ivy League connotation.</p>
<p>I don’t think social skills matter so much when you are looking for a job in research. There, what matters more is with whom did you work with and what kind of research did you do. It’s more about skill than social presentation when it comes down to the sciences.</p>
<p>UC Berkeley was my dream school while I was in high school, but–due to a misunderstanding on my part of application requirements–I didn’t take the SAT II reading/writing sections (I thought it was SAT I and only the SAT II subject test). I ended up going to CSU Hayward (now CSU East Bay), a smaller 4-year university. It ended up being for the best: I studied abroad, changed majors, got in on a couple research projects, and connected with a lot of professors across several departments who really pushed for me during admissions.</p>
<p>I was more focused in grad school, but didn’t really have a definite ‘dream’ school until I visited UMich’s PiBS preview weekend. I (thankfully!) was accepted there, and I’ll be starting my program on June 17th :)</p>