difference between college and general studies

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
1

<p>hi ppl … i need some help … and i got around 2 days to figure this out…</p>

<p>this is what i got in the email today from columbia …</p>

<hr>

<p>Thank you for your application to Columbia College. As I hope you have come to know, Columbia College is the university’s residential liberal arts college designed for the needs of the traditional student. Typically, transfer candidates for Columbia College have attended high school and then entered college with no more than one year’s interruption at any point in their studies. Furthermore, since Columbia College will grant a maximum of 64 points of credit to incoming transfersthe equivalent of two years of full-time college work), entering transfers must be aware that they will spend a minimum of two years of full-time study at Columbia.</p>

<pre><code>Upon review of the information you provided, it appears that you may be a more appropriate candidate for the School of General Studies (www.gs.columbia.edu, 212-854-2772), a separate undergraduate liberal arts division of Columbia. Students who enter this program typically either:
</code></pre>

<p>1) have had a break of more than a full year in their education -or-
2) wish to attend the University on a part-time basis.</p>

<pre><code>If you agree that the School of General Studies is the more appropriate division of Columbia for you, please see the second page of this letter for further instructions. If you still believe yourself to be a more appropriate candidate for Columbia College, you may send e-mail or fax the response page to so indicate. In either case, please inform our office by April 27, 2006.

Thank you in advance for your prompt cooperation.
</code></pre>

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<p>ok … now im majoring in computer science and will be a sophomor next semester … will be transfering … i had a break of about 1.5 years when i worked … but that was around 3 years ago… wonder why theyr worried about that…</p>

<p>here are my questions if anyone would be so kind to help me out:</p>

<li><p>whats the difference between the two schools ??</p></li>
<li><p>should i swap to the general studies school ??</p></li>
<li><p>if i do swap, does their emailing me this letter indicate that i’ll have a good chance of getting in ??</p></li>
<li><p>if i dont swap … and tell them to evaluate my application for the college, will it be near impossible to get into the college ??</p></li>
</ol>

<p>i wasnt even serious about columbia but this letter has made things interesting … any help would be appreciated…</p>

<p>thanks</p>

2

<p>The difference between the two schools is that the General Studies school is for non-traditional students...kind of like a Night School. I believe you graduate with a degree from Columbia General Studies, but I'm pretty sure you can take all the same classes as SEAS and CC. If I were you, I'd swap. With an e-mail like that, I'd assume you don't have a real shot of getting into CC, but a shot of getting into GS.</p>

<p>Edit: Why didn't you apply to SEAS? SEAS Transfers are told to apply regardless of a break in schooling.</p>

3

<p>i wanted to get into the college soo .... plus i never knew about this "break in tudies" policy ..</p>

<p>can i transfer into the college once i go to the general studies school ? or should i go with my nyu backup plans ???</p>

4

<p>The policy about Break in Schooling is posted on the website regarding Transfer Information.
<a href="http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/transfer.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/transfer.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Potential applicants to Columbia College who have taken a break of more than a year in their education (with the exception of those who must complete national military service), should apply instead to the School of General Studies at Columbia. Applicants to The Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science should proceed with the transfer application regardless of any break in schooling."</p>

<p>Frankly, I'd rather go to Columbia GS than NYU. It's difficult to transfer to the College regardless, I don't think you have any preference--they don't like admitting students from SEAS or GS as a backdoor into the College.</p>

5

<p>The whole GS vs. College thing is fairly ambiguous, and I think they keep it that way for a reason. Bear in mind that I'm a graduate student here, so I'm not 100% certain as to the nature of the difference either.</p>

<p>GS is generally for students who have taken more than one year off either between high school and college or between freshman (or sophomore) year and the transfer process. Generally, applicants who fit this one criterion are funneled into the GS pool, which is less selective than the College but also attracts fewer applicants. It's very difficult to convince Columbia to allow you to transfer into the College if you have been out of school for more than a year, and as a result, most of what CU labels as "non trads" have no choice but to apply to GS or not apply to Columbia at all. These rules are not set in stone, however, and you can petition the adcom to consider you for the College, even if you are a non-trad. </p>

<p>As for the diploma, from my understanding, it is a different diploma than the one awarded by the College, and GS students do not attend the College's graduation exercises or class day (just as College students do not attend GS's graduation exercises), though obviously everybody goes to the same university-wide graduation. </p>

<p>As far as the courses you take, there is no distinction between what is open to GS students and what is open to students at the College. A Poli Sci major in GS, for instance, takes the same courses as a Poli Sci major in the College, with the main difference being the fact that GS's core is less rigorous than the College's. </p>

<p>Additionally, GS students generally aren't allowed to live in University housing, though from what I've heard, a small number of GS students each year are able to get into the dorms (I'm not 100% sure about this).</p>

<p>Ultimately, I think that GS seems like a fairly legitimate "back door" to a genuine Columbia education. Sure, you don't get the latin diploma or the fancy class day speaker, but from all indications, you earn a bachelor's in ::::insert discipline here:::: from Columbia University that you can market to employers and graduate programs.</p>

6

<p>FYI...I believe GS students can petition to take the same core as CC students.</p>

7

<p>its just one word thats bothering me ... "non-traditional student" ... and the average age of students is 29 ... blehhhh ...</p>

<p>had they not mentioned that word, i would have gone with GS ....</p>

8

<p>ohhh... and does this mean i'll have a hard time getting into the college for the rest of my life ?????? :S</p>

9

<p>For those interested, I called GS today. Here's what I found out:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>One's transcripts and degree will say Columbia University and The School of General Studies. The degree will be signed by the Columbia University president and the dean of GS. The degree will be printed in English and not Latin.</p></li>
<li><p>GS students can take the same core as Columbia College students, if they choose. They also take the same classes, are taught by the same faculty, etc., as CC and SEAS students.</p></li>
<li><p>GS is easier to get into than Columbia College, but the education one receives is identical. Further, the admission rate for GS is higher because GS students tend to be more self-selecting, whereas students coming from high school apply to every school under the sun even if they have a relatively low chance of getting in.</p></li>
<li><p>The primary difference between GS and CC, however, is in student services, housing, academic advising, etc. Because the school caters to non-traditional students, the student services must be necessarily different. Also, there some services (lectures, and such) that only available to CC students and other services that are only available to GS students. For example, GS had a Georgetown Law professor come lecture, permitting only GS students to attend.</p></li>
<li><p>The same undergradute research opportunities are available to GS students and CC students.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I was concerned about the number of GS students getting into law school, so the person I spoke with let me know that 4/7 valedictorians from GS went onto Yale Law last year, while others ended up getting into other great law schools such as Stanford, Harvard, Boalt, Columbia, etc.</p>

<p>The method by which one gets into a great school should not matter as much as what one does during and after receiving his/her education. </p>

<p>If anyone wants/needs more information, I have tons.</p>

10

<p>Sounds like you got a bit of spin. Take #5, for example. Research opportunities are solely a function of the individual faculty members and are in no way created by the university. For several reasons, it is likely that a professor will have a strong preference for a CC researcher over a GS researcher.</p>

11

<p>Perhaps, but one can look at the situation in several ways. I was told that some professors may prefer a GS student because they tend to be more mature. Though, I am curious to hear your reasons. Because each research candidate must interview with the professor, it seems like an individual thing, rather than a battle of titles. Some GS candidates may appear more desirable, while some CC candidates may appear more desirable for a particular position. I doubt that an overwhelming majority of undergraduate research opportunites go to CC students, and if they did it probably has more to do with the larger CC population than superior credientials.</p>

12

<p>Columbia2002, I want to make one more point. I'm arguing the point that the same opportunities are available. I think you're arguing the point that CC students get more research positions than GS students. However, it doesn't seem like you're disputing the fact that the same opportunities are available to all, and this is the critical point. A very well-qualified GS student, I feel, will have little difficulty getting a research position over a mediocre CC student.</p>

13

<p>Also, isn't the only way anyone can "find out" you are GS, is if they make a specify inquiry into which college you are enrolled? It is not like GS students have to wear a pin saying "I am enrolled in GS."</p>

<p>A faculty member would be a ducking fumbass to choose a CC student over a GS student if the GS student was much more qualified or familiar with the material. Same goes for choosing a GS student over a more-qualified CC student.</p>

<p>I don't know about you (or ictani or blehhh), but I look like I am about 20 years old... so the only way someone would know if I was GS was by asking me, or looking up my information in a directory.</p>

<p>blehhh: this is totally your decision--but you REALLY need to get over the "but I don't wanna be labeled non-traditional" thing. Just look past that. If you want to go to Columbia, then go--whether it is GS or not.</p>

14

<p>Unless housing is a concern. According to the, oh, probably 4 GS students I know (as in my information isn't too creditable), housing is a b*tch to get if you're GS. There IS some GS housing, but you're GUARANTEED housing as an undergrad.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
A faculty member would be a ducking fumbass to choose a CC student over a GS student if the GS student was much more qualified or familiar with the material. Same goes for choosing a GS student over a more-qualified CC student.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is a straw man. We're assuming both are reasonably qualified.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Columbia2002, I want to make one more point. I'm arguing the point that the same opportunities are available. I think you're arguing the point that CC students get more research positions than GS students. However, it doesn't seem like you're disputing the fact that the same opportunities are available to all, and this is the critical point. A very well-qualified GS student, I feel, will have little difficulty getting a research position over a mediocre CC student.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Completely agree here. Research opportunities aren't hard to come by at Columbia. If you're reasonably smart and reasonably motivated, you will have little difficulty finding some professor to work for, either as a CC, GS or SEAS student.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Though, I am curious to hear your reasons. Because each research candidate must interview with the professor, it seems like an individual thing, rather than a battle of titles. Some GS candidates may appear more desirable, while some CC candidates may appear more desirable for a particular position.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Faculty members might have a bias against GS students. Academics are often elitist snobs who might give "non-traditional" negative connotations or might think less selective means less smart. Also, some might think older people will have more responsibilities and be less likely to work as hard and devote as much time to them.</p>

16

<p>I agree, for the most part. One can look at a particular GS student or CC student in several ways. On the one hand, a GS student may appear more desirable because he/she is more mature, that is, willing to devote more time, and take his/her work more seriously. On the other hand, a GS student may work full-time, have children, etc. At this point, we're splitting hairs and I think who gets a research position ultimatly boils down to who is more qualified. In other words, one's qualifications, GPA, etc., will carry more weight in the interview process than whether or not he/she comes from GS, CC, or SEAS.</p>

<p>I want to make another point. When people hear the term non-traditional they squirm, as if it's a terrible thing, or as if it implies intellectual inferiority. People think non-traditional students are mediocre high school students with no chance of getting into a respectable school or an older student who made mistakes in life. While this is true in some cases, there is a distinction between the non-traditional student that had children at an early age and the one who performed well in high school and was not able to attend college because of family circumstances or because he/she felt unprepared or felt too immature enough to attend college. I suppose it's an uphill battle for non-traditional students. Yet, seeing how some of them end up going to some of the best grad/law/business/medical schools in the country, it would be false to conclude that they're in any way intellectually inferior. With respect to GS, I feel admission statistics are irrelevant because every student, regardless of how they get in, has to endure the same rigor to receive a Columbia degree. Just as it's wrong to give less credence to the minority student or the legacy student who gets into a top school, so it is wrong to give less credence to a non-traditional student. Of course, I'm assuming here that the legacy, minority, and non-traditional student must endure the same intellectual rigor as everyone else, as is the case with GS.</p>