Differences in Grading Systems

Parents Forum
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<p>I have a concern. The GPA seems to be calculated differently by different schools. (For instance, our school system gives an A- for a score 90-94, with a grade points of 3.67, while a neighboring school gives an A for the same score 90-94 and grade points of 4.0. For an A in a honors course in our school district, the Grade points are 4.25 compared to 4.5 for the neighbouring school district). So, two students of the same caliber might have different GPAs based on the school they attend. Are the students with a lower GPA at loss as a result? (There might be some college admissions which have a first level screening based on the numbers.)
How can we overcome this situation. Do you think it is wise to ask our school district to consider revisiting their grading system? If so, how do we make that actually happen? </p>

<p>hypermom</p>

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<p>I don't blame you for your concern. It sounds like the grading system at your S or D's school is harsh. The grading system should be explained in the school's profile- a brochure explaining the curriculum, grading, ranking, something about the community, SAT/ACT scores, Honors and APs offered, class size, # of students that continue on to 2 and 4 year colleges, etc.</p>

<p>I just want to add that unfortunately, in my small sampling, hardly a research study, I do not know that colleges care. For example, if you have a student with an 1100 sat score and a 4.25 gpa from a tiny less competitive private hs (30 students), and another graduate from a more competitive hs with a 3.1 and a 1280, I think the the first student will be admitted before the second. It is unfair to compare the 2 student's gpas, yet I think that is what happens overall. This is just my personal observation and I do not have any objective data to back it up. Not only that, but if the first student from the less competitive hs pulls up the sat score, then more doors open for merit aid as well.</p>

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<p>Our school has the same grading system, but no weighting. The grading system is explained in the school profile. The more selective colleges recalculate GPAs (large state universities with many more applications to handle probably do not).</p>

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<p>i was always led to believe that the colleges recalculate your gpa based on the system that they use. my college used the 90+ is a 4, 80-89 is a 3, etc.. until they recently switched to 95+ is a 4, 88-94 is a 3.5, 82-87 is a 3, 78-81 is a 2.5, etc... so i would assume that when we were applying they looked at our b's, b+'s, and b-'s and made them all to a 3.0, but i could be wrong on that? and i'm not sure what they do with grade weighting - i don't believe in grade weighting and i don't think colleges should either.</p>

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<p>Our school is similar, but no weighting and no +/- system either. No idea how colleges will use it. </p>

<p>92-100 A
85-91 B
75-84 C
70-74 D
0-69 F</p>

<p>Overall averages are also expressed in terms of 0-100 rather than 0.0-4.0. If this scale gets converted by a college to a 4.0 scale it seems a little harsh. 91 is 3 but 92 is 4 (or a 91.4 = 91 = B = 3.0 while 91.6 A = 92 = 4.0)? Ouch. Can't really worry about it, though. My Son just needs to do the best he can, we need to make sure the school profile and transcript accurately reflect how the school grades, and then let the colleges do whatever it is they do with this information.</p>

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<p>Iderochi has it exactly right. As long as the school profile explains it correctly and the transcript is accurate, it's out of your hands. It is how it is.....</p>

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<p>The colleges are well equipped to deal with these discrepencies-- in some cases down to familiarity with grading idiosyncracies of individual teachers. They know that a 4.5 average from "inflated-grade-suburban-high" equates to a B+ at "academically-rigorous-magnet". This is the job of the regional admissions representatives-- the ones who visit the schools, meeting the students, guidance staff etc.</p>

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<p>Annelise -- true, but I'm unsure how familiar the school will be in our case. I.e., not sure sure a small LAC will be very familiar with a high school outside of the "typical" geographic area from which the LAC draws its students.</p>

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<p>I've been reading about this precise issue for a while. My earlier conclusion has been reinforced over the past year. </p>

<p>In my opinion, while there is evidence that schools with smaller pools of appicants ATTEMPT to recompile GPA in a standardized form, it require a HUGE leap of faith to trust schools with 20,000 applications to do the same, except for a handful of well-known feeders. </p>

<p>Let's look at a few numbers: I believe that it would take for a parent attemping to recompute the GPA from a 100% scale to a 4.0 scale about TEN minutes, and more if not knowing how to analyze the particular idosyncracies of the school. So, keeping the small 10 minutes, this means that a school with 24,000 applicants should invest 4,000 hours for the simple exercise of checking, analyzing, and recompiling the GPA or eventually the ranking. Considering that this effort takes places in the first month of the revision of applications, it would require about 200 hours for 20 days to complete the cycle. Considering the typical workday of adcoms and technicians, we may settle on 10 hours per day ... meaning that a school would need 20 workers for this sole purpose. </p>

<p>Accordingly, I lump this deep analysis of GPA/Ranking in the same category as deep analysis of number of SAT sittings. My take is that this DOES NOT happen, except for a very small percentage of the applicants. What i DO believe is that the information provided BY the high school or TCB/ACT is simply transcribed with little or no changes. </p>

<p>This leads me to believe that schools that use arcane systems and depart greatly from the standard 4.00 scale with the nice GPA boosters is shooting in their own foot, or better stated in the feet of their students. </p>

<p>Schools such as Lderochi's are the worst offenders. The reason cited by schools that have an A at 92-95 without an A Minus is that this gives them a BETTER reputation in the application circles. Yep, and there are many schools, especially Catholic schools, that are wondering why their students no longer have the success of the good old years of the BWRK. In keeping their illusory standard for academic rigor, they seem entirely oblivious to the explosion of grading gaming at numerous schools that do not hesitate to present a curriculum that is entirely weighted and sometimes includes 40% boosts for AP classes. </p>

<p>If you happen to find a good reason for the type of scale Lderochi presented, please let me know. I have looked in many places and have yet to find it. On the other hand, finding negative reasons is quite easy.</p>

<p>PS As far as the school profile explaining the grading policy correctly ... from what I have seen, it is the SCHOOL profile that creates the problem. A school that reports grades on a 0-100 scale HAS to provide a conversion scale. If the scale is the 100-93 is A scale, you can start spelling D-O-O-M. :D</p>

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<p>Xiggi, I am not sure 93-100 is DOOM, but there seem to be schools that are offering students the ability to take a large # of APs, and honors classes, boosting the gpas this way and general grade inflation, and I see some of these students w gpas higher than 3.8, but they are reporting sat scores in the 1100 range (sometimes lower). In my S's hs APs are not taken by the masses. The top students in one area are the students in those classes.</p>

<p>I agree with you, that the schools cannot spend huge chunks of time on ea. app. and converting the numbers. I have seen plenty of kids hurt financially from our S's hs bcs they cannot hit the gpa required to get merit aid, even though they easily make the mark on their sat score. I just edited this bcs as I think about it, the 93-100 scale is DOOM for merit aid.</p>

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<p>my two cents:
there is no (admission decision-wise) difference between an uweighted 3.8 and 4.0, and between a weighted 4.1 and 4.5. Grades don't set students apart, courseload (and mostly- not necessarily all- A's), activities, and I would even venture to say that test scores (though not thaat much anymore) will determine if one achieves admission to a top school.</p>

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<p>Jeez, thanks for making my day Xiggi :( </p>

<p>Like I said, though, there's not much we can do about it. Nothing's changing in the next 12 months! It is what it is. It's a weird scale, and I have no idea what colleges are going to say when they see an overall GPA in core courses of, say, 91. What will that mean to them? I dunno, guess we'll find out.</p>

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<p>Exactly, nothing can be changed. The school's grading system is what you have to work with. This is why the ACT and SAT are supposed to equalize matters, but do they?</p>

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<p>I know that quite a few schools are phasing out standardized tests, but as northeastmom mentioned, they are supposed to equalize matters regarding grades... I think that when adcoms take in all factors available (GPAs, SATs, ACTs, Letters of Recommendation, Essays, EC info, etc.), they get a much more complete picture of the candidate. </p>

<p>As the mother of a student who did well on the SAT but had a personal issue in his junior year, causing his GPA to decline somewhat, I am grateful that many adcoms will have the opportunity to see his SAT scores (in addition to Letters of Recommendation & Essays)- that way they will be able to assess him on several important factors and get a much more realistic picture of who he is and what he's capable of - rather than basing it soley on his GPA.</p>

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<p>Speaking of GPAs, does anyone know how most colleges calculate GPAs? Back in the dark ages when I went to college, colleges generally gave straight letter grades. There were no plusses or minuses. Is that still true? My son is currently taking some courses at a local college, so I'm curious what his transcript to other colleges will look like. I suppose I could call the local college, but was wondering what the general pattern is.</p>

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<p>Our high school uses percentage grades. You need a 100 average to get a 4.0, sliding on down by each percent grade. One side effect is that there's never a tie for valedictorian. I do worry that a kid who never has gotten less than an A in a class, say a 94 average, has a 3.7 GPA, while a kid in another high school, with a 92 average, may have a 4.0 average. I hope they really do take the time and look at what those numbers mean.</p>

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<p>You could try to get a copy of the school profile to see how well the school explains the scale to colleges. My school's profile can be downloaded from its website, and it makes a point of explaining grade deflation. Here is an excerpt (italics are mine):</p>

<p>
[quote]
Grading System
There are three marking periods per year; each marking period consists of 11 weeks. Students in Grades 9 - 12 are marked according to the IB scale of 1 - 7, as follows:</p>

<p>7 - excellent (A+)<br>
6 - very good (A-)<br>
5 - good (B)
4 - satisfactory (C) college recommending mark
3 - mediocre (D) minimum passing mark
2 - poor (F)
1 - very poor (F)</p>

<p>Grades on the transcript are meant to accurately reflect what students will achieve on their IB exams. For example, 7’s are relatively difficult to achieve on an IB exam, and they are also extremely hard to attain in our coursework.</p>

<p>Predicted IB Exam Grades
Predicted IB grades are included at the bottom of the counselor recommendation. 96% of our teachers’ predictions are within one mark of the actual IB exam grade that the student receives. </p>

<p>Class Rank and GPA<br>
It is the policy of the school not to rank students. In partial recognition of the significant demands of IB Higher Level (honors) courses, the following weighting scheme is used in Grades 11 and 12:
IB Higher Level courses = 1.1
IB Standard Level courses = 1.0<br>
Aesthetic courses = 0.4
Theory of Knowledge = 0.4</p>

<p>In Grade 9, information technology, aesthetic courses, and physical education are weighted 0.5; no weighting is used in Grade 10.

[/quote]

Without those few paragraphs I think we'd come across as pretty mediocre students. ;)</p>

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<p>Can colleges actually LOWER a student's UW GPA. For example, my schjool uses the traditional 90-100 grading system for A and B grades (70-75 for C's), but I know many schools use 93-100. If I have a 92 in a class (an A at my school) would colleges lower that to a B and recalcuate my UW GPA (provided on the transcript)?</p>

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<p>How would they know that you had a 92? This is part of the problem. They only know that you had a 90-100 if that is the scale for an A, and you received an A.</p>

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<p>It would be difficult to fiddle with GPAs since they mean so many different things. An A at one school might be a C at another. Grades even vary between courses and teachers within a school. </p>

<p>Standardized test scores and knowledge of the schools can sort out some of these differences. However, some students don't test well, while others are great at tests. Furthermore, college admissions people may be familiar with some of the schools in their areas, but probably aren't knowledgeable about all of the schools.</p>

<p>Hmm... In a few years, I foresee parents checking out not only the quality of the local school system before purchasing a home in that district, but also the grading system. Ack!</p>