Dilema: Full Ride vs $140K for Prestige

<p>My son is about to decide between two choices for his undergraduate degree: a full-ride including room & board at a public state university, or a COA of $140K after merit scholarship (not eligible for fin aid) for an elite, prestigious, private college. Both schools are very strong and ranked equivalent in his major (engineering). The main difference with going to the elite school would be the culture, and possibly better opportunities due to the strong reputation and alumni. But is this worth $140K?</p>

<p>My son has stated that he feels the elite school is the one for him, where he really sees himself, but he understands the reasons for choosing the public. Either way he wouldn’t have loans but he would be expected to help contribute $30-40K for the private if he chooses it. This could easily be done by working campus and summer jobs over 4 years. If he chooses the full-ride, it would mean we could pay for his grad school too, and we could buy him a car, and maybe even early retirement for us.</p>

<p>Emotionally I feel he has worked very hard and deserves to go wherever he wants. I’ve already seen his disappointment when I convinced him not to apply to ivy league, because although he had a good chance of being accepted, ivies do not give any merit aid, and therefore the COA would be unreasonable even if we did get some aid when our second starts college in two years. He sees his neighbors and classmates all going to elite, prestigious or ivy league schools. I don’t think any of them even considered a state school, even if they applied for it as a safety. But maybe we are the unique ones who will choose wisely. I see no shame in attending a state school. Then I think, “it’s only money” and we are fortunate to be able to pay it due to our diligent savings from the day our children were born. Still $140K is not to be taken lightly. Regardless of which school he chooses, I know he will soon grow to love it, and forget about any others he applied to, or thought about applying to.</p>

<p>Ultimately, the choice will be his, but I know we can have a strong influence on his decision. I just don’t want him to have any regrets either way, but either decision does come with a potential regret, either prestige lost, or a lot of money lost. He is going back to visit each school one more time for “accepted students’ day and an overnight stay, which will help him decide. But the factors of prestige vs money will not change regardless of additional visits. I would like to hear feedback from both students and parents alike, especially those who have made, or are currently making, a similar choice</p>

<p>Either way he wouldn’t have loans but he would be expected to help contribute $30-40K for the private if he chooses it. This could easily be done by working campus and summer jobs over 4 years</p>

<p>As someone who has had one child go thru college and another one almost done with his junior year, I disagree with your premise that your son can “easily” net $8k-10k per year to put towards tuition costs…unless you’re going to be providing his “pocket money” and “day to day money”. At most, I could see a student contributing maybe $2k-3k towards college costs, unless he’s not planning on having any kind of social life. </p>

<p>College kids tend to spend about $3k+ per year in just “stuff”…pizza with friends, spring break trips, movies, concerts, you name it. In other words, their summer jobs and part-time jobs tend to get spent on themselves. </p>

<p>More to the point, kids attending elite schools often do have the money in their pockets for night and weekend fun. The poor kids at these schools have their costs covered, and the others have their parents paying or they have part-time jobs where most of their earnings are for themselves to blow on their day to day expenses… Few of these kids will be contributing $8k-10k per year of their own yearly earnings towards tuition.</p>

<p>Offer to buy him a Mercedes S600 as a graduation gift if he goes to the state school and see which direction he chooses.</p>

<p>Just curious, what are the two school’s he’s been accepted to?</p>

<p>What schools and what particular type of engineering?</p>

<p>In many cases, state universities are among the top tier of universities as far as being recruiting targets for engineering employers. For example, consider Berkeley, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Texas, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Purdue, Penn State, Rutgers, etc… And some schools with greater prestige generally are not regarded as being as good in engineering as many state universities.</p>

<p>The $140,000 price difference is likely to be an overriding factor if the choice is between two good ABET-accredited engineering degree programs in the same subject.</p>

<p>(Do you live in the northeast, where it seems to be more common for people to automatically think “private > public” and “state school” is often considered an undesirable option for those who got shut out of private schools, unlike in some other places like the midwest?)</p>

<p>Every family will have a different situation and criteria to make the decision. Eons ago I chose a public school (Georgia Tech) over prestigious private schools because it was less expensive (although my parents would have paid for me to go anywhere) than the privates were even after merit scholarships and because I found that more national and international employers recruited engineers at Tech than at the other schools. However, for my daughter we are paying the huge premium to send her to Harvard because it is much stronger in her major (physics) and main extracurricular (ballet) than UNC (or other schools that offered merit money). UNC is a great school, but she has a better chance of getting into a top physics PhD program from Harvard, so we are willing to pay. </p>

<p>As you will read elsewhere on CC, your son will not get a better starting salary as an engineer from an elite private college than from the public university. The department where I started my career had young engineers from GT, MIT, Lehigh, U of Tennessee, U of Wisconsin, U of Texas, U of Kansas, Cornell, Rice, U of Houston, Texas A&M, U of Arizona, Virginia Tech, etc. and were all on the same pay scale.</p>

<p>My sister had the same predicament. She received a full ride to SMU but was accepted to her top choice, Yale with no financial aid. She ended up choosing Yale because that’s where she felt she belonged, and she loved every second of it. She even ended up graduating in 3 years, saving a year of tuition for my parents. If you can afford to do so, I would recommend letting your son choose the school he feels he would enjoy the most, regardless of prestige.</p>

<p>That’s a tough one. If you could not swing it, it’s one thing. Or if it were a program or school where the difference were immense, it’s another. In this case you are going to have to try to read how important this is to your son. </p>

<p>I also agree with Mom2collegekids that making up $8-10k in gaps is not going to be easy without taking out loans unless your son has a stash saved. My 4th child who is very frugral and works as much as can is finding it difficult to come up with what he has agreed to pay in college and decided to take out some loans second term. He found that a course he was taking that was needed for his major was more ornerous than expected and had to cut down drastically in his job, which then has not be calling him for the hours he can work. For next year, his room draw was not a good one, and he will be spending more than he planned for a room. He wants to get into a specific program that means he should take a course or two this summer which is another $2k out of budget and will take away from available work hours, and involve fixed gasoline usage. All of this is happening to a very disciplined kid. My older ones would have blown up the budget much earlier with the way they were at that age (maybe still are). Had he gone in state, we would have had a $15K safety margin each year. </p>

<p>However, he loves his school, loves the way things are, for the most part, and really does not want to transfer. But he is learning the true cost of getting this extra. I think also he understands now why we imposed a limit on college cost. He can truly feel it. </p>

<p>Good luck in coming to a resolution.</p>

<p>what are the schools?</p>

<p>Busybeemom, looking at your posts, I wonder also whether it is you who really likes that public school as you appear very excited about it and you just try every possible excuse to stir your son towards your preferred school. Do not forget, he is the one who will attend the school. He already made a sacrifice not to apply to an ivy because you dictated it (let’s be honest, mothers in particular have a big influence upon sons) and now you want to force him to go to the public school. May be he applied to the private one thinking that’s where he will attend since he will not apply to an ivy. If money was always the issue, then you should had made it explicitly clear to him as he might have chosen a totally different group of schools to apply. Allow him to decide for himself where he wants to go as he might one day turn and tell to your face that everything was your fault and you destroyed his life. He is going to go to the school, not you.</p>

<p>My good friend had a similar dilemma. Her son wanted to attend a private school in Pennsylvania, because his high school girlfriend was going to a nearby school. He was brilliant and got a full ride to Boston U. My friend and her husband are both physicians, but felt that the money spent to turn down an excellent offer impacted the entire family. They would be able to afford the private college, but then again, with no tuition or housing costs at BU, the family could take more trips, have more college choices with the younger two children (who were not as brilliant), and update aging vehicles. She asked me what I thought. I told her it was not even an option at our house, since cost was a deciding factor for all college choices. They ended up asking brilliant son to accept full ride at BU and he is finishing his first year there. BTW, the girlfriend is still in the picture, just not in the same state. The benefits of having more money for the family outweighed the one child’s desire to go to one place only.</p>

<p>Cptn quote: *making up $8-10k in gaps is not going to be easy without taking out loans unless your son has a stash saved.</p>

<p>My 4th child who is very frugral and works as much as can is finding it difficult to come up with what he has agreed to pay in college and decided to take out some loans second term. ** He found that a course he was taking that was needed for his major was more ornerous than expected and had to cut down drastically in his job, ** *</p>

<p>Exactly!</p>

<p>The OP’s child is going to be an engineering major. STEM majors have very demanding course loads. And, sometimes their summers are committed to lowish paying internships, or REUs that break up their summers that don’t allow much earning. Does the OP want her child to forego these summer research opportunities and instead wait tables so that he can come up with at least $5k of his $7k - 10k non-loan contribution? Because, seriously, few kids are going to be able to net $2k-5k during the school year to put towards tuition. </p>

<p>One REU that one of my kids did was for 5 weeks in the middle of summer. In most students’ cases, that would have totally ruined a normal opportunity to work an entire summer, but lucky for him, a friend of the family let him work in his restaurant for the few weeks before and few weeks after the REU. Obviously, such an unusual job flexibility can’t be counted on for most kids.</p>

<p>I would not want my kids’ grades to ever suffer because of some commitment to put so much towards tuition. The semesters that my kids were taking “weeder classes”, they could barely work at all…just enough to keep a few bucks in their pockets for dates.</p>

<p>As for your son saying that the “elite school is the one for him”. lol…well, wouldn’t we all say that? I’m sure that a Mercedes is a better fit for me than a Ford. And, I’m sure I’d look cuter driving around in the Benz.</p>

<p>If you truly feel that the elite school is the better one, then pay for it. Don’t expect a large no-loan commitment from him. He’ll likely agree to it, but not be able to live up to it.</p>

<p>Also, you appear to place importance at the rankings just for the graduate school in that field. The undergraduate overall education is equally important. Is the private school Lafayette? Congrats if your son got in and compared to Rowan?, I think there is no comparison on the overall level of education. You should also think that it might be better to go to a prestigious undergrad school and then increase his chances to go to a better grad school for engineering. Otherwise you are limiting his options.</p>

<p>We were faced with the same tough choice this year. My son was accepted to several fine universities with a lot of merit, but he had his heart set on Cornell - College of Engineering (full pay). In the end we decided that Cornell could offer him so much. We won’t need to take out any loans, but our retirement fund won’t be as padded as we planned.My daughter on the other hand chose our terrific flagship state school’s Nursing program. Paying for a private university for nursing didn’t seem to make sense. I hope we won’t be faced with the same dilemma when our 7th grader goes to college :-)</p>

<p>the mom mentions in another thread that merit is desired to get remaining costs to about $25k. </p>

<p>I’m wondering what these two schools are. </p>

<p>I think one is Rutgers-Camden (huge scholarship).</p>

<p>I think the “prestigious elite private” is Lafayette, based on previous posts.</p>

<p>Personally, I don’t think Lafayette vs state school is the same as some of the posts above that dealt with Ivy vs state school. Frankly, outside of the NE, few have even heard of Lafayette…and the ones that have probably think it’s a LAC and would be surprised that is has eng’g.</p>

<p>Frankly, I think the bigger problem is that if merit was highly desired to have more choices than Rutgers-Camden, then other schools should have been applied to that give big eng’g merit.</p>

<p>^Looking at the Forbes rankings, Lafayette is #33 and Rowan is #488!</p>

<p>Going to Lafayette might not have as rigorous engineering as Rowan, but he could apply to a betetr engineering after the BA.</p>

<p>Ana1, if I wanted to list which schools they were, I would have. It is really not your place to guess or speculate. The goal of this thread is not to seek opinions about one school vs the other, and if that’s all you can contribute than I would respectfully prefer that you not. Believe me when I tell you that for the past two years I have done a significant amount of research on what schools my son should apply to based on who he is and what he wanted. I would have preferred that he did that research on his own, but I guess it was easier for mom the secretary to do it for him, and I didn’t mind. He pretty much just showed up when it was time to visit another school. In the end, all of the schools that he applied to (yes there were more than just two) are a great fit for him, and he agrees. He would be happy to attend any one of them, as it should be, otherwise why bother applying to a school you really don’t want to attend. Sure he had his favorites within that group; everyone does. </p>

<p>The full ride was completely unexpected and it therefore has our attention, including my son’s. He simply glowed with pride when he received the letters because he knows he is one in only a few that they offered it to. However the engineering program at there already had our attention even before applying. I am not forcing him to attend the state school nor would I have to because he is brilliant enough to see the benefits himself, just like he realizes the benefits and expected financial contribution of making the other choice. Like another poster said, the financial choice made does impact the entire family.</p>

<p>Regarding not applying to the ivy, that was his choice as well. My job was to lay out the financial implications which would mean huge loans for him, and he realized he did not want that, nor would I ever want to burden a child with those loans. Anyone who has a mortgage, knows how long it takes to pay off just $100K. Why would they ever let their child start their life off like that?</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for your advice, especially helping me realize that my son earning up to $10K a year while in college is just not feasible, which means he will need to get loans, which just adds to the burden of the private school price tag. I do appreciate everyone’s opinions. One thing that keeps me focused is knowing and believing that no school will determine if you succeed or not. If the desire is there, it will happen regardless if you attend a state school, elite/private school, or ivy league. I see great things in my son’s future because of how passionate he is about learning, and so I am confident that he will succeed regardless of the choice he makes.</p>

<p>Busybee…people will speculate based on your past posts. And, actually, the actual schools can make a difference when you’re asking for people’s opinions.</p>

<p>*^Looking at the Forbes rankings, Lafayette is #33 and Rowan is #488!</p>

<p>Going to Lafayette might not have as rigorous engineering as Rowan, but he could apply to a betetr engineering after the BA.*</p>

<p>Are those college rankings or engineering?</p>

<p>According to USNews, Rutgers-Camden is 29 for regional N. Supposedly, it has very good engineering. I don’t know how true that is. Is the school merging with Rowan?</p>

<p>LC is ranked 38 for LACs.</p>

<p>Did the student apply to Rutgers NB?</p>

<p>I’m guessing that the parents are bit stressed about costs and providing for 3 kids’ college costs.</p>

<p>If Rutgers-Camden has good engineering, and your son does well, then your son won’t have trouble getting accepted to grad schools.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>No one here will be able to give you a good opinion like one about graduate placements or prestigious professors at given institutions who could write influential letters of recommendation unless you list the universities. Personally, i don’t see what the big deal is, but that’s your choice.</p>

<p>We’re going to speculate regardless. Few public universities can really hold their again against privates. Are we talking Berkeley vs Stanford here? Georgia tech vs Emory? etc. In both cases, the publics would be great options, and, imo, your son would be better off (and probably happier) just getting the full ride at the pubic and a nice, brand-new car.</p>

<p>And, in cases like the two above, i think it’s pretty fair to say that most of us would agree that your son would be a fool (no offense to your son) to pass up the free ride and go into debt if the programs are similar. This was pretty much echoed by nearly every poster who posted in a simlar thread about Chicago vs Virginia. You can read that here:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1279263-uchicago-uva-echols-scholar.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1279263-uchicago-uva-echols-scholar.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Busybeemom, the choice of schools, especially when one of the factors for the choice is “prestige” is extremely important. Equally the specific schools are important because you position them as equivalent when for many people are not, both for prestige as well as the school size/dept teaching/etc. As parents many of us have been their secretaries/researchers/advocates, etc. However, from your posts, and yes, the earlier posts as well that for all of us are open for anyone to read since we write in an open forum, it is clear that you have made you decision months in advance on where you want your son to go as well as where he wants to go. If the money are available, then it should be up to him to decide and not try to find justifications to convince him otherwise. I am just stating an opinion, which does not mean that it is the best for your situation, or that you must definitely follow it. It might give a different perspective to another person who is in a similar situation.</p>

<p>^That’s why the particular schools are important. Between UChicago and UVA I would go for UVA for the money, but I just do not think the choice is the same between Lafayette vs Rowan. (The Forbes rankings are college rankings, not just engineering.)</p>