<p>^ I honestly have no idea how you financial aid officers are so patient. I’ve sat there and listened to parents in the financial aid office before (while waiting in line). You guys have the patience of saints.</p>
<p>“I cannot tell you how many college students graduate having NO idea they took out students loans…”</p>
<p>I’m horrified by that. I think the student should sue for fraud!</p>
<p>Also, on the OP’s topic, I was VERY uncomfortable reeling off numbers that my son had to input into this applicatations for two large Texas Universities. Early on they asked “Will you be asking for any need-based aid?” and we answered “no”, but they continued to ask the most invasive questions (basically the info that will be needed on the FAFSA). I have no idea why. However, I’d decided that the whole application process was HIS and all I did was provide him the numbers. After reading this thread I guess I will handle the FAFSA alone, but the info is already “out there”, he has an excellent memory :-).</p>
<p>The student should sue for fraud?! How so? The student REQUESTS the loan. It requires entrance counseling & a Master Promissory Note to be signed before funds can be disbursed. Students get confirmation from both the school & the lender after funds are disbursed. The only reason they don’t know is because they are completely clueless about what a loan IS. I have seen letters from students saying they didn’t understand they’d have to pay the loan back. A student asked for “the kind of loan I don’t have to pay back.” The point is, students need to be responsible for their aid process & they need to PAY ATTENTION to the information they are asked to read.</p>
<p>Unless AllThisIsNewToMe was suggesting they sue parents for fraud for taking out loans in the student’s name without their knowledge?? (I honestly don’t know what he/she meant but that’s the only way I could think of “fraud”.)</p>
<p>AH … if that’s the case, the student should take the parent to court to get the loans assigned to THEM! ;)</p>
<p>Actually… I wonder if you could sue your parents if they signed a loan without your consent/knowledge. Generally, a student is 18 when they would apply for their loans so it seems as though it is a clear-cut case of fraud (no different than forging a student’s signature). </p>
<p>Interesting. Wonder if this type of thing has ever come to court?</p>
<p>Probably has… I’m pretty sure everything we could have imagined in court has happened before… America, the land of lawsuits…</p>
<p>^ True. 10 char</p>
<p>I spoke to my daughter about the fact that, though I believe that I will be paying for any educational loans…she needs to understand that some/most of those loans will actually be in HER name. So, while I’m the cosigner, that doesn’t help if I lose my job or something happens to me. Those loans will be in HER name. It’s one of the MANY factors we’re discussing in whether or not to go to the cheap/free in state uni versus private OOS more elite school. </p>
<p>So I include her of course, and do want to TEACH. But, it’s really just a matter of “exposing”, at this stage. I have a business and fully expect my CSS Profile to be a NIGHTMARE. I’m hoping I’m worrying for nothing. But there are special circumstances I might be mentioning that my daughter doesn’t need to know about either. I’m not hiding it from her, but…she doesn’t really NEED to know how much money is in my business. Nor does she necessarily NEED to know that I’ll be hoping for some laxity in my $20,000 post cancer medical expenses each year. And she wouldn’t really UNDERSTAND my investments, etc. BUT…to see the words and ask questions (what is an IRA?, what is home equity?, etc)…is a good first step in learning. I’ll expect her to see ALL items on anything she has to electronically sign (if she had a job, you bet she’d be filling her part out, but she has no income, her part is a no-brainer at this point). </p>
<p>Also, she’s had no contact with her “Father” (makes me ill to use the word)…EVER. So she had to help me with the forms to ask for a waiver for the Profile. That was fun. Not. But necessary.</p>
<p>I think everyone knows when their own kid is mature enough to handle finances, but the shouldn’t really be handling their parents’ finances. And that’s what these forms are. </p>
<p>So…hopefully everyone can be involved…it’s a very big deal…and learn…and share some information…and maybe not all…and hopefully it will be easier for everyone their 2nd year.</p>
<p>Roman,</p>
<p>Based on the repayment information and the fact that the loans were not in defaut, I would have to assume the parents did pay the undergrad loans themselves. But, as kelsmom said, if the child isn’t taught responsibility by the parents, how are they going to navigate college or the real world after college?</p>
<p>Even though in many instances, the parents will be the ones footing the college tuition bill, the reality is that it is the STUDENT’S financial aid package…it is their responsibility to make sure everything is submit correctly and timely. Why? Because it is THEIR name attached to to the college bill. The student’s name is the one on the FAFSA, the student is the one enrolled at the school…if wrong information is submitted (purposely or accidently) it is the student who can pay the consequences if aid is later revoked. If the college bill isn’t paid, it is the student that the collection agency will hunt down and it is the student’s credit that gets ruined.</p>
<p>Yes, that is a lot of weight on an 18 year old…but if they are shouldering at least some of the responsibility when the paperwork is completed, they know what is going on and know the potential consequences. It doesn’t mean that the parents should just toss all the financial information to the child and say “get it done”. Instead, the parents and the child should sit down together and work through the FAFSA and Profile. Then the parents and child should review ALL the college paperwork together: loan applications, entrance counseling, award letters, scholarship letters, etc. Sit together with a loan repayment calculator and show the student how much they will REALLY have to make to repay the loans that are necessary for the chosen school. Heck…the reality is if they see the parent financial portfolio, it may actually give them a good idea of what it takes to be as successful as the parents are. You may even find the children become more respectful and appreciative of the sacrifices you have made for them. </p>
<p>My kids are 16 and 12. They both know how much money comes into the household. They both know what are required monthly expenses are. They both understand what it takes for me to provide them their cell phones, camp fees, sport fees. They know how I have to juggle finances when it comes time to purchase that “I MUST HAVE IT” $300.00 prom dress. They know what responsibility they must shoulder in high school if they want to attend their dream school because they know what our financial situation is and how little finances are available to cover any gaps in aid. They also know that Parent loans are out of the question because of the amount of income and expenses already undertaken by the household.</p>
<p>All all the parents should already understand…the REAL world is an ugly, difficult, no excuses world. Not understanding how things work doesn’t buy anyone any excuses. Being young doesn’t buy anyone any latitude. Being only 18 doesn’t buy anyone any real compassion for real world immaturity.</p>
<p>Allthis,</p>
<p>Who are they gong to sue for fraud? The school? Nope…the student “signed” all of the legally required paperwork authorizing the loans. The parents? Nope…the student “signed” all of the legaly required paperwork and I doubt the parents would admit their actions before a judge. Just like with the laws of the land…ignorance is 9/10 of the law. The student wouldn’t have a legal leg to stand on since the student’s name would be on all of the paperwork, no proof would exist that it wasn’t the student who authorized the loans, and it was the student who directly benefited from the loans (by way of getting the degree).</p>
<p>Nikkil, I agree that it would be very difficult to prove fraud.</p>
<p>I understand some of the reasons for hiding finances from your kids, like divorce or that the kid would want more money, but the excuse that they don’t need to learn about money until later is not an excuse. When a child turns 18, they are an adult and are legally responsible for their finances. Part of the reason why there are new credit card laws being enacted is that students who didn’t understand money were getting themselves into mountains of credit card debt. While many students cannot understand many of the numbers put into FAFSA or Profile, they need to be told about them. I’m a finance major and cannot fathom a classmate coming in and telling me they don’t know anything about the stock market or opening a CD. How can they manage the investment package they will get with their new job? Good credit and an understanding of money is one of the best things a parent can give to their child, it’s the gift that keeps on giving.</p>
<p>IMHO, both the student and parent should fill out FAFSA together. If in college, have the student fill out the info while you talk to them on the cell phone. It’s interesting to hear about how each family discusses finance. My parents actively disclose their finances with me and have me talk to the banks because I know what to ask. As for my [younger] siblings, they know very little about the family finances and it causes difficulties.</p>
<p>My parents are very upfront about our finances. I understand why some parents aren’t, but I do think it’s been helpful to know what i’m working with</p>
<p>Because I know our income, I have a better idea of how much financial need money to expect and how much merit I need to look for to fill the gap. </p>
<p>I also understand better why my parents can’t contribute to my education…</p>
<p>For us, there were no downsides to disclosing</p>
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<p>I see what you’re saying. My parents were immigrants, but something that I got when talking to students whose parents were born in the U.S. is that Americans don’t like talking about how much they make. I understood that it applied to, say, strangers but apparently it applies to your own kids too. No wonder a lot of kids get in trouble with money later on; if your parents are dishonest about how they keep the lights on then how are you supposed to know what you’re doing when you have to do it for yourself?</p>
<p>It’s kind of like teaching a kid to drive entirely using the Gran Turismo games and never allowing them to see anyone else driving in real life. Yeah, they’ll screw up, because they live in a world of stories.</p>