I like the vax and masking option as well as our best hope for keeping school open
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After the end of the school day today, with our next school day Tuesday due to the Labor Day holiday, our school finally sent out notification that we will be complying with our stateās new mandate for masks or face shields.
This applies to everyone in school or on buses.
Up to now, it was all optional.
Iām glad to see compliance because the NYT has our county in the Top 10 for the state of PA with per capita new cases. There have been a couple of spikes post school opening in latter August. Iāve no idea if those spikes were school related or not, but if theyāre in the area, sooner or later it will affect people who go to school.
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Very strategicā¦the admin can now duck the phones calls and emails over the long weekend. In all seriousness, Iām glad to hear theyāre complying because Iāve heard rumors of lawsuits being filed to stop the mandate and I hope the courts keep it.
Iām sure there will be several angry parents. We live in that type of area. Itās not common to see high masking around here, though there are more in the community than there were a month ago. It still doesnāt approach 30% even in the highest areas from what Iāve seen. I havenāt been in school to see what it is there, nor have I asked.
The notice said to keep watch for updates as itās an ongoing deal. My guess is theyāll quickly ditch if lawsuits were to be successful.
For now though, my school district is going to be in compliance. Iām glad.
#10 - you have catching up to do. In TN, weāre #1, weāre #1.
And the governor still says itās best to let parents decide.
For the life of me, I have no idea why seatbelts arenāt optional?? Why should they be mandated. Let parents decide.
D, SIL & their toddler live in Nashville. Fortunately, the baby is in a daycare that requires masks for all adults and all employees are vaccinated. Most of the parents are vaccinated as at least one of the parents for each child works for an institution that requires vaccination. Thankful that granddaughter is too young for K-12. I hope to move to TN when I retire so I can be near them, but I am aware that it is a little like the wild, wild west!
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I feel for those of you in hotspot states.
PA, as a state, is pretty low on the list for current cases per capita - definitely bottom third last I checked and maybe bottom quarter.
My county is working on bringing us up in the ranks though. (sigh)
Nashville and Memphis have defied the governor. No religious exemptions. No one asked for a medical one bcuz Drs will tell you thereās no need.
They are doing better than the rest.
Itās so boneheaded honestly. At least theyāve stood up to the bully.
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And car seats. Those should be optional too for sure! (Sarcasm in case it wasnāt obvious)
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Car seats are great contraceptives: Car seats are contraceptives | Washington Examiner
But seriously, mandating car seats for older kids is absolutely unnecessary and should be entirely optional, they certainly donāt meet any plausible cost-benefit metric (value of lives saved).
We should always be very cautious about whether mandates are truly justified or are being imposed for self-interested reasons, whether itās politicians wanting to show they are doing something or companies that benefit financially.
I wish there was better evidence about the benefits of masks in schools, because some other countries donāt believe that they are scientifically justified, especially for younger kids. But unfortunately most people in the US seem incredibly locked into a pro or anti position on Covid-related issues.
This article from yesterdayās Washington Post regarding a forthcoming peer reviewed paper to be published in Science provides some pretty compelling evidence for the efficacy of masks. I saw/heard about it elsewhere, but Iāve slept and donāt remember other news outlets that cited it today.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/01/masks-study-covid-bangladesh/
Not specific to kids though. At best a mechanism to protect the over 50s, so in a school setting it would only be for the benefit of (some of) the teachers not the students.
Thatās where a lot of the questions center: how much do we compel people (especially children) to do things that may not be in their individual interest, for the benefit of society in general. Covid vaccines for young children may well fall into that category, when you are weighing the low probability of serious illness against the (also low but possibly greater) probability of side effects.
The FDA has a truly difficult job balancing these considerations and itās not made easier by pressure from politicians on either side.
My Covid nervous daughter is finally willing to do two afternoonās a week in daycare for her toddler; and the center closed for the first two weeks of the school year due to adult workers testing positive. 
Thereās tons. Part of the issue with delta though is itās getting through surgical masks. The cdc has said we need n95 or kn.
Idiots that spew nonsense have dug a hole. Admitting oops isnāt American. Theyād rather people die first. No matter the issue people just dig a deeper hole
Itās a nuanced issue. Not one for absolutist positions or blanket assertions:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/students-masks-classrooms-britain.amp.html
All societies have to deal with rules to manage external effects (effects of your activity on unwilling third parties). Of course, what those rules should be are the subject of lots of politics in any society.
Contagious diseases like COVID-19 obviously have external effects. Politics of this sort becomes more controversial when R0 is larger (with COVID-19 Delta, you may pass it to 5-10 other people in the absence of any precautions), and when the level of internal versus external effects varies across demographic groups. Children are less likely to suffer bad effects of COVID-19 (internal effects), but have shown with other viruses to be great vectors of contagion under normal circumstances (external effects), while this is somewhat reversed for older people like their grandparents and some of their teachers.
Of course, vaccines do internalize some the effects ā those who choose vaccination have a much lower risk of bad effects of COVID-19 and a much lower risk of being vectors (though there is no such choice for children under 12). But vaccine refusers still cause other external effects, such as clogging the hospitals with COVID-19 patients, potentially preventing others who need (non-COVID-19) care from getting it. To the extent that COVID-19 spreads among children and to those among their parents, teachers, etc. who are not vaccinated, there could be more external effects like clogging the hospitals.
Small children (not infant) crash test dummies in regular seat belts may be about as safe in crash testing, but actual children seated that way may be less comfortable.
Do you have a reference for that recommendation?
Dr. Michael Osterholm. Has a podcast. Heās an epedemiologist at U of MN.
As he says thereās a reason doctors in the emergency room are not using surgical masks but rather N95. His favorite analogy is that if someone is smoking can you smell through your masks. The surgical masks donāt fit as well and the air gets through the openings. The n95/kn95 are meant to better seal.
But you can read various publications that state similar. Iām not a DR of course. I wish we shut down the country. Bit really did. Not where we say but donāt do. We need to crush this.
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If you are looking for masks, you may want to look into the mask ratings for both filtration (higher = better) and pressure drop (lower = better, as in less restrictive).
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eE2BERAvRzs28kG87ft3a27FS9-gHvdC
Mask backlash may in part be due to common cloth masks being not the greatest at filtration or comfort. Common cloth masksā main advantage is washability and reusability, but are best suited for short term lower risk situations where masks may be required or desired.
But if you want masks more suitable for higher risk situations or for wearing for longer periods of time or while physically exerting yourself, you may want to shop specifically for those which may be better for those purposes.
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You said that the CDC is recommending that we wear KN95 or N95s for delta, is there a reference for that? I couldnāt find anything from the CDC suggesting that the general public should wear these masks. Doctors in emergency rooms (and any other specialty) who have frequent interactions with presumptive positive COVID patients should be wearing N95s that are properly fitted.