We dont know the kid, but we know a teacher at the kid’s school, and I’m just curious on how this works:
Kid has several Div 1 offers for his sport. It’s all over the sports news in our local paper. One of these schools is an Ivy League school, and the paper reports he has one official NCAA sports visit left and is contemplating visiting the Ivy League school.
My questions are these: if an ivy league extends an offer to play, is kid automatically admitted? Is kid admitted already in September? Is admittance assured with a sports offer? How does that all work?
No. The student has to be admitted at ANY school, not just the Ivies, and the athletic department can only request the student be admitted… The Ivies have their own system and it depends on the sport how high the stats need to be (and how good the athlete is). However, if the student has been invited to an official visit, it is very likely the student has already submitted his transcripts for review and the school has indicated if the student is likely to be admitted and maybe what level of financial aid he’d receive.
Typically, an Ivy League recruit submits transcripts and grades in the summer of their junior year to the coach (there are various rules on when a recruit can be contacted and the nature of the contact). The coach will then submit the information to the AO to get a preread. The coach will review the info first as they have a pretty good sense of the academic hurdles an athletic recruit needs to hit (the Ivies use an agreed common formula to measure an “Academic Index” based on gpa and standardized tests scores, there is a minimum AI number that must be met for every candidate, and an overall AI figure that must be met for athletes as a group) before they send in the data to the AO. If the preread comes back positive, the coach will let the recruit know. If the recruit submits his/her application early, the AO can send the recruit a “Likely Letter” as early as Oct 1 if they are satisfied with the full application (basically you are in unless something drastically changes). The actual acceptance letter comes out at the same time as other applicants for EA/ED or RD based on which round the recruit applied. Almost always, a coach’s support is conditioned on the recruit applying SCEA or ED. The AO at all times has the final call on admissions.
There may be different variations based on the sport and the recruit, but it is without variation that the earliest a Likely Letter can go out is Oct 1, the recruit is only officially in when he/she receives the acceptance letter from the Admissions Office, and that a coach does not have the unilateral authority to offer admissions.
shhh… DD on phone with Cornell coach, should she mention Mich and Yale have arranged official visits to play one against the other and get the best offer?
It may have been that Michigan was his first choice and he never thought he could get on the team athletically, but when the offer came… It really might not be a money issue, that Michigan can give more money but that the student really wanted Michigan all along.
It seems many people have the misconception when an athlete commits to an Ivy, that he/she is automatically accepted and is as good as done. When they are told the student still has to go through the admissions process, they are quite surprised. Ivy recruitment, despite the mutual verbal “nonbinding” commitment between the athlete and the coach, is not finalized until the AO gives the Likely Letter. Although the athletic hook offers the athlete a tremendous advantage in terms of admission, for the nonrevenue niche sports, certain high level of academic standard is still expected. This week is the deadline for most athletic recruit for sending in their ED common application to an Ivy school. These athletes up to now had to build up an impressive academic stat to get the highest SATs and GPA that meets the minimum for even being considered for admission.
Obviously the above athlete deciding to choose Mich over Harvard is the athlete’s personal choice and many factors would have made him choose one over the other. However, for many athletes committing to an Ivy, esp HYP, their scores and GPA may not have met the minimum Academic Index score, which the coach will certainly inform them to look for other options elsewhere.
Bingo. Until that Likely Letter is in hand, acceptance is not assured. And since the earliest date an Ivy League school can issue a LL is 10/1, any “commitment” that a student/parent/paper says has been made prior to that date is not confirmed on the college’s part.
And to reiterate, there are no “sports scholarships” in the Ivy League.
I think that all of the information above is technically correct. However, I don’t think a coach would extend an offer unless he has a favorable pre-read by admissions. This isn’t Alabama Football, the coaches only have a precious few slots to give away. I would think they wouldn’t waste one on an athlete unless they were more than 95% sure that the athlete will be admitted. I assume if the athlete isn’t admitted they still can offer the slot to someone else, however, if you find out in December that your recruit didn’t get admitted you are probably not getting the next guy on your list. The top prospects have already committed somewhere else, and you will have to drop very deep into your list to find an athlete that wasn’t good enough that anyone else picked him up for ED either.
So technically verbal offers are meaningless until October 1 or later. However, I would be shocked if more than a very small number didn’t translate to actual admissions.
What offer is being extended? There is no offer other than a likely letter.
I would assume any experienced ivy coach has an idea of what it takes to get someone in and would be honest and upfront about a kid’s chances and not blow smoke but there is nothing “wasted” by telling a kid he’s going to try and get him in.
I have a recruited Ivy athlete in the family… she was told to retake the SATs and raise her score by a minimum of 40 points before she would be a viable candidate as an athlete admit.
Conversely, the son of a friend, ranked internationally in his sport that’s big with the Ivies, was told in advance that his B+ average high school grades and good-but-not-great SATs weren’t going to be enough to get admitted to HYPC, despite the huge success in his sport.
So yea, I do think there are pre-reads by Ivy admissions, as @dadof4kids suggests.
@iwannabe_Brown the original ‘offer’ could be construed as support in the admissions process. Daughter is at an Ivy. Had a positive pre-read in the summer and she, along with 9 other girls, attended an official visit when there were only 4 spots which the coach could support through admissions. My daughter was ‘offered’ one of those spots and accepted it. She could have turned down that offer (in favor of full scholarships at lesser academic schools…but that is painful to bring up ;). She then applied, and a painful 4 weeks later got her likely letter, yet she was Still afraid to click the admissions link on December 15th…
Exactly. And this is why Ivy schools’ prefer the formulation “has committed to the admissions process at X” when announcing a committment to an Ivy. It can not be overstated that the Ivy is among a very small handful of schools at the D1 level that do not cede a certain number of admissions slots to the athletic department. At most schools, in most sports (or at least the revenue and more popular sports) the admissions department provides certain criteria to the AD’s office and tells the AD how many kids who meet that criteria they can admit. The Ivy is not like that. Everyone goes through the admissions process.
That said, and echoing @dadof4kids, all the Ivys do pretty extensive admissions pre reads beginning in July prior to a recruit’s senior year. Usually, those pre reads are very accurate. The problem is with the “grey area” pre reads - where admissions comes back and says that grades may be a problem, that a standardized test score needs to go up, or that the ultimate decision will depend on recommendatons, essays, etc. For that category of kids, things can get pretty dicey in the fall, particularly at HYP.
One advantage the Ivys do have is that there is a very well defined and somewhat public (if you are willing to do the digging) process to Ivy recruiting. This allows a recruit to develop a sense of where they are that is often hard to get with other D1 schools.
Do D1 athletic recruits, other than Ivy, not have to go through the application process? I just assumed that everyone had to submit an application no matter where you go.
Yes, D1 athletic recruits have to go through the application process. Signing an NLI does not garner automatic admission. Plenty of kids have signed NLIs and either not been accepted to the school or couldn’t be qualified through the NCAA clearinghouse.
Agreed. And while I am sure that the vast majority of Ivy League coaches are doing things by the book, there are about 280 head coaches all with differing tenures. There have been instances of “Whoops” in the past, which is why I would never suggest feeling completely confident until the LL is in hand. Perhaps the parents can pop the Champagne beforehand, but the press releases should wait, IMO.
I won’t pop the Champagne until I see the acceptance, even holding a likely letter. But that’s because I’m paranoid.
However, one of the few cards the coaches hold is their verbal assurance that you will be admitted. If they squander that, even once, then next year and for several years in the future the prospects won’t necessarily trust them, and may choose an alternate school instead. It’s a small group at the top, and if someone gets screwed over, word travels fast. Look how often Haverford soccer gets mentioned on this board. And that’s D3, not Ivy.
I asked one coach how many of his slotted kids he got in. He gave me a funny look and said “100%. I would never tell your kid to apply ED unless I knew he would get in.” I’m sure part of that is that he is a genuinely good human being who doesn’t want to trash my kid’s future. However, he also knows that if he told S to apply ED and S didn’t get in, then his reputation and credibility is shot. When you get to the upper levels of a academics and sports, everybody knows everybody.
I’m sure there are the gray pre-reads, like @Ohiodad51 mentioned. However, I think that generally if you are told by a coach that you are ok, you are going to be ok. It is certainly a question I would ask. I have said this many times, but most coaches give honest (if slanted) answers to direct questions.
I think when you see a kid who is “committed” to Harvard as a freshman, some of them are going to not make it. When you see a Senior who is “committed” after pre-reads are completed, it will be pretty rare they have an issue.
If a committed kid to HPY does have a problem and is told to look elsewhere, how late can that happen? Any time before the LL is received? Wouldn’t the problem be identified much earlier than that during the summer pre-read period?