<p>I have read with interest several MIT Admissions blogs regarding the perceived virtues of absolute diversity and preferred (and hotly defended) holistic approach in the school's admissions process.</p>
<p>This article gave me a different perspective and some things to ponder as well - How</a> Diversity Punishes Asians, Poor Whites and Lots of Others.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>"The blacks in question need not be African Americans–indeed at many of the most competitive colleges today, including many Ivy League schools, an estimated 40-50 percent of those categorized as black are Afro-Caribbean or African immigrants, or the children of such immigrants. "</p>
<p>This bit is interesting. I have been curious about statitistics since I see several recent immigrants who are classified as African American and benefiting from superior academic performance.</p>
<p>Although I’m sympathetic to arguments against AA, mindingthecampus is full of bizarre and weak arguments for lots of conservative causes. Lots of parts of the linked article don’t really apply to MIT as well such as the stuff about financial aid. If you have an actual interest in this subject I’d suggest reading Steve Hsu’s blog Information Processing, which has lots of posts on this or if you’re really interested find Espenshade and Radford’s book No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal and then make up your own opinion instead of reading the conservative ideologues at mindingthecampus.</p>
<p>I would say that any kid who gets into MIT who is not reasonably qualified will be sliced to pieces in no time flat.</p>
<p>You might be able to bluff your way through a liberal arts school taking sociology courses, but you can’t bluff physics and calculus.</p>
<p>It is my understanding that even if you want to major in let’s say, political science, that you still have to take a lot of STEM prerequisites</p>
<p>floridadad55 is absolutely correct on all counts. (As for our STEM requirements, we require a year of calculus through multivariable, a year of calc-based physics through E&M, a term of chemistry, a term of biology, two restricted electives in science, and a lab).</p>
<p>I’d like to add the additional point that it does no one any good for unqualified kids to get torn up and spit out. Admissions has no reason to seek that.</p>
<p>I hope no one seriously believes that MIT or any other school for that matter is accepting students who can’t do the work given that the number of applicants capable of doing the work is far greater than the number of students MIT can accept. Yet I don’t think that really answers the arguments against AA.</p>
<p>While you are waiting for responses on THIS thread, you can find some response on these threads, that reference the same article;</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/1226652-sat-bias.html#post13332498[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/1226652-sat-bias.html#post13332498</a> original post; reference section</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1155321-colleges-racist.html?highlight=how+diversity+punishes+asians+poor+whites+and+lots+of+others[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1155321-colleges-racist.html?highlight=how+diversity+punishes+asians+poor+whites+and+lots+of+others</a> circa page 183</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1117842-classof-2015-waitlisted-2.html#post12349332[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1117842-classof-2015-waitlisted-2.html#post12349332</a> post 29</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1116437-story-my-3-asian-classmates-1-friend-my-area-including-myself.html?highlight=how+diversity+punishes+asians+poor+whites+and+lots+of+others[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1116437-story-my-3-asian-classmates-1-friend-my-area-including-myself.html?highlight=how+diversity+punishes+asians+poor+whites+and+lots+of+others</a> post #272</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/1115306-waitlisted-should-i-visit-campus.html?highlight=how+diversity+punishes+asians+poor+whites+and+lots+of+others#post12316495[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/1115306-waitlisted-should-i-visit-campus.html?highlight=how+diversity+punishes+asians+poor+whites+and+lots+of+others#post12316495</a> post #7</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/962836-how-would-you-respond-statement-about-college-admissions-13.html#post10857639[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/962836-how-would-you-respond-statement-about-college-admissions-13.html#post10857639</a> #191</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/984615-world-record-number-applications-14.html#post11091755[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/984615-world-record-number-applications-14.html#post11091755</a> #198</p>
<p>there are more…or of course, there is the almighty Race FAQ thread, latest one is #8 I think.</p>
<p>Nope! Now at FAQ #9, page 51 with 700+posts!</p>
<p>I don’t think the problem is with unqualified applicants getting in. rather, qualified-yet-still-undeserving. I think the case is that the qualified latino/black applicant gets the nod over the more qualified white/asian applicant. in my opinion, this is still unfair, as the more qualified applicant is more deserving of the spot. the slightly weaker URM can still handle the work, but he or she may be in the spot of somebody far more qualified, simply because of a last name. </p>
<p>at least, that’s what it seems like where I’m from. of the ten or so applicants I know (including myself), all were qualified, but some were definitely more qualified than others. there were 3 USAMO qualifiers in the group, one guy who self-studied Calc BC as a sophomore (his school didn’t offer it) and got a 5, took multivariable calculus at a local college as junior, and was an ARML medalist. another took IB math HL, AP stats, and multivar in the same schedule. despite all this, the only person I know who got in was a latino guy who had a B in his senior math class and got a 3 on his mock IB math exam, despite having seen the mark scheme beforehand. </p>
<p>granted, the sample size is tiny and the latino kid is still qualified and will do fine, but he is not nearly as deserving as the geniuses i know who were denied. they’d kill for a spot that he might squander. judging from what I have read, this seems to be a common trend.</p>
<p>White females have been the biggest beneficiary of AA since it began. Since most white females marry white males- white males still win. What I’m saying is that be careful what you complain about. If you didn’t get into the school of your choice it isn’t because you were discriminated against. There is no special program for “minorities.” The Univ of Cal system did away with race as a determining factor, and now UC is 60% Asian. One Asian friend had a 4.6 weighted GPA and she didn’t get into the school of first choice. She just graduated from U of Mich. Schools are looking for well rounded students- not grade machines. Best to move on with life and go to another school.</p>
<p>I’m not exactly sure how white females have been the biggest beneficiary of AA in college admissions. Duke58 does bring a good point that white students don’t really suffer from AA. An Espenshade and Chung paper estimated that AA dropped the acceptance rate of white students by a massive 0.5%. Of course it’s possible that the OP is Asian and then might have more legitimate grounds to complain.</p>
<p>Of course it’s very possible MIT does AA in a different way than most other elite schools so it’s not clear that Espenshade and Chung’s result fully applies. Compared to most other universities in the US News 10, MIT has more Asians and Hispanics and less Whites and African-Americans. The greater presence of Asians is presumably because MIT specializes in science and engineering and the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965 has led to Asians being concentrated in those fields but I’m not sure what to make of the relative larger amount of Hispanics and the relative smaller amount of African-Americans.</p>
<p>NCAA athletes are african americans. You see the CBS commentators between games, they are 100% African Americans. How come there is no affirmative action here? It is only one race dominating the entire field and they have no problem with that? Why, because if they pick on it, they are swamped all over by the community leaders lie Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons? There are not a single Asian American athletes playing in the basket ball games tonight. But there is not a single Asian American political leader that will complain about it. There need to be more whiners from Asian Americans.</p>
<p>Colleges give Athletes special admissions. But there are absolutely infinitesimal amount of Asian Americans admitted this way. Asian Americans are an absolute URM in the college athletic teams but this URMs get no break.</p>
<p>College Admission gives African Americans special URM admissions. Asian Americans are suppressed in every possible way because they are ORMs [actually because Asian Americans are silent and they don’t know how to influence with their voting]. There are Harvard Diversity, Princeton Diversity, Yale Diversity… not Harvard University, etc. There is only ‘Diversity’ in the admissions offices and in colleges, but not anywhere else in this country. Only in college. If the colleges are trying to mimic the real world, then they really must stop this nonsense of ‘diversity’ because no professional organizations are practicing it. Look at nearly all of the Athlete millionaires. They have no problem with the lack of ‘diversity’. Why should the colleges have so much concern over ‘diversity’? All the while lying big time it is not a discrimination?</p>
<p>Asian Americans are the laughing stocks in the college admission offices. They are kicked around every possible way, and they are stepped over all over their bodies. </p>
<p>If you are ****'d, then you should learn to vote correctly. Thats what African Americans have shown historically. Thats what Hispanic Americans are showing. Asian Americans must show even more lopsided voting record, based on issues, to get any meaningful respect because of their relatively fewer number in total. Asian Americans, join the 80-20 Educational Foundation, support their cause. That 80-20 way seems to be one most effective way to force changes and gain respect. Sue, protest, do whatever possible to force the college admission to change from this blatantly unfair practices against the Asian Americans. The college admission office knows that Asian Americans will just comply no matter how badly they are treated. It must be stopped.</p>
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<p>They aren’t really in any context…it’s just an oft-repeated canard and no one really thinks about it. </p>
<p>White females do benefit from AA in some contexts (but not college admissions other than in engineering,) and there are more white females than minorities. Therefore, people say that they are the “biggest beneficiaries.” However, affirmative action is not an equal boost for individuals of different underrepresented/minority backgrounds.</p>
<p>@GLPUGA1 - </p>
<p>I’m glad you’ve read our posts on the subject. For those who have not, I will link some here: </p>
<p>[Diversity</a> or Merit? | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/diversity-or-merit]Diversity”>Diversity or Merit? | MIT Admissions)
[In</a> Praise Of Holistic Admissions | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/in-praise-of-holistic-admissions]In”>In Praise Of Holistic Admissions | MIT Admissions)
[The</a> Difficulty With Data | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/the-difficulty-with-data]The”>The Difficulty With Data | MIT Admissions)
[It’s</a> not fair! | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/its-not-fair]It’s”>It’s not fair! | MIT Admissions)
[Putting</a> Diversity into Context | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/which-box-should-i-check]Putting”>Putting Diversity into Context | MIT Admissions)</p>
<p>With regards to your post above, I would like to excerpt from this last blog post, which I think should explain why our policies do not “punish” anyone, but rather reward those who make the most of their opportunities: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The Tech has published the racial breakdown of admitted students for the class of 2016 [1,620</a> students admitted to Class of 2016 - The Tech](<a href=“http://tech.mit.edu/V132/N12/admissions.html]1,620”>http://tech.mit.edu/V132/N12/admissions.html). I’m not exactly sure what’s the deal with biracial students or those who didn’t submit a race as Caucasian+Asian-American+Hispanic+African-American+Native-American+International=99% of the class. I thought it would interesting to compare representation in the MIT class of 2016 to the general US population for the same age [15-17 years old in 2009] [data from here <a href=“http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0253.pdf][/url”>http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0253.pdf][/url</a>]. To get comparable data I’m only looking at Caucasian, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, and Hispanics and dropped others so the denominator in both cases is percent Caucasian or African-America or Asian-American or Hispanic. All the below figures are using these adjusted statistics and the general population is people who were 15-17 years old in 2009.</p>
<p>Caucasians are 61.7% of the general US population and 39.3% of MIT’s class of 2016.
African-Americans are 16.1% of the general US population and 10.1% of MIT’s class of 2016.
Asian-Americans are 3.4% of the general US population and 34.8% of MIT’s class of 2016.
Hispanics are 18.7% of the general US population and 15.7% of MIT’s class of 2016.</p>
<p>Now we can look at how representation in MIT’s class of 2016 compares to the general population of the same age. Caucasians and African-Americans are both quite underrepresented in MIT’s class of 2016 compared to the general population with only 64% and 63% respectively of the representation there would be if MIT’s class was proportional to the general population. Hispanics were somewhat less underrepresented at 84% of what you’d expect under proportional representation. Not surprisingly, Asians were massively overrepresented at more than 10 times what you’d expect with proportional representation.</p>
<p>**Race and Professional Sports **
MLB:
•White: 60%
•Hispanic: 29%
•Black: 8%
•Asian: 3%
NFL:
•Black: 66%
•White: 31%
•Asian: 2%
•Hispanic: 1%
NBA:
•Black: 76%
•White: 20%
•Hispanic: 3%
•Asian: 1%
MLS:
•White: 59%
•Black: 22%
•Hispanic: 14%
•Asian: 1%</p>
<p>The african americans and whites are over-represented in the Pro Sports world and so the college athletic admissions heavily favor the african americans and whites.<br>
In my opinion, college admissions should follow the real world Occupations, namely, **equal opportunity education<a href=“employment”>/b</a>. Give equal opportunity to everyone, but do not give preference or disadvantage due to the person’s skin color. College admission practice, of putting Asian Americans and Whites at disadvantage just because of their skin colors, is wrong and should be confirmed illegal.</p>