<p>I hit a nerve here. It’s a nerve that when even lightly touched, spews forth a predictable tirade of worn out invectives, PC gender hate and long discredited statistics. Works every time! Thank you for playing.</p>
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<p>Long discredited by WHO? I gave you straight up facts and you brush me off as “gender-hating.”</p>
<p>Grow up. This isn’t a game, real people are actually hurt, and I used that as a point to prove that not all divorces are necessarily women being petty/flighty/whatever nonsense you feel like spewing. This isn’t even about being “pc” or whether you hit a nerve by telling people it should be okay for non-custodial parents to wash their hands of their children after a divorce and still expect adoration.</p>
<p>Move along if you can’t back yourself up with facts about my stats, or have a real good reason for calling me a “gender hater”. The ONE time I gave a statistic about men was involving children. ALL the other stats were about women and their partners alone. I did not once say “all men _<strong><em>” or even “all women _</em></strong>” I just gave you a good reason as to why some women may want to get a divorce. The fact that you assumed this means I hate either gender says more about you than it does me.</p>
<p>Notice how every stat but ONE says that Women and “intimate partners”. </p>
<p>This isn’t about hating men, FYI. Men can be victims of domestic abuse too. But since I was talking about rates of abuse against women and divorce rates, I mentioned women for the sake of pointing out that women may have actual reasons for divorcing, and aren’t trying to “steal the childrenz for no good reason!!!”</p>
<p>It’s irrelevant who files for divorce. Would it be Elin’s fault if she filed for divorce from Tiger? Would it be Robin Gibson’s fault that she filed from divorce from Mel? Would it be Elizabeth Edward’s fault that she filed for divorce from John?</p>
<p>What would you have? A situation where women who’ve been wronged should have to stay married just so they don’t add to the percentage of women who initiate divorce?</p>
<p>That tired old claim about who initiates divorce is stupid. The “filing” isn’t was caused the divorce.</p>
<p>How about trying this…why don’t men stop behaving in a manner which causes so many divorces?</p>
<p>Your argument is based on the premise that it is the man’s behavior being the primary cause for divorce. </p>
<p>I see. Thank you for backing up my original point.</p>
<p>It is too bad that a guardian ad litem familiar with college financial aid requirements isn’t required to suggest to the court appropriate language about paying for college, providing information in a timely manner for Profile, and the like. The kids really get squished like bugs in this whole process – and it doesn’t matter in the least whose behavior did or didn’t instigate the divorce.</p>
<p>*Your argument is based on the premise that it is the man’s behavior being the primary cause for divorce.</p>
<p>I see. Thank you for backing up my original point. *</p>
<p>and, it if were true that women behaved equally badly, the filing numbers would be more equal.</p>
<p>When was the last time a judge ordered a married couple to pay for their adult children"s college education?</p>
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<p>Apparently you can’t read, since I repeatedly said: One of the reasons, a reason could be, more than one reason…not the only reason, etc.</p>
<p>I suggested that sometimes it is a need to get away from an abusive partner and sometimes it’s not. It could be anything, but it’s not always an unwarranted divorce- that holds true if one party is abusive, or if both have no feelings for each other anymore, or any other number of reasons. </p>
<p>Women may file for divorce more, but that’s not because they’re doing it for funsies. I pointed out you’re wrong about them being able to take away children away easily, because I know from experience that it’s not easy. Both in my own case, and in several other friends/family/neighbors. </p>
<p>Again, do you have facts to back up your statements, or are you just talking?</p>
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<p>Yes. It’s the sad truth about divorce that children get shoved aside. </p>
<p>And getting financial information, as the OP and I know well from the non-custodial parent is worse than having a tooth pulled. </p>
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<p>…What. I really haven’t heard of any divorced parent being mandated to pay for college without consenting to it, or knowingly having it written into a divorce contract. FYI, one would hope that a child’s parents (if they had the money) would pay for their child’s education as a part of their upbringing. </p>
<p>…Children can’t, however, make their parents pay anything. Nor can they control how much their parents plan to spend if they do have the money to pay for an education. OP implied that her Ex makes about half a million, which is more than enough to go to any school on, but that he is claiming substantial debts. If he’s not in debt, and not waived, the OP’s child will still be expected to come up with the amount that the child’s father could afford, whether or not the father is going to contribute to his child’s education. </p>
<p>Even further, if the OP’s ex has stated he will only contribute X dollars, that will likely not be considered, even if it’s part of a contract. The school will look at his over all ability to pay, and only see it as an underfunding (if he is not in debt) and still require the amount the father can pay, whether he wants to pay more or not.</p>
<p>The only way to avoid getting screwed (it would seem) would to try for a waiver, or press the non-custodial parent further to see if he has the money or not. This isn’t about the non-custodial being a guy, it’s about them possibly lying/not contributing towards the child/or being in serious debt.</p>
<p>Toblin sounds like one of the minority of men in the world that had a wife who behaved badly and then left him. Yes, such things happen, but you can pretty much ask anyone what/who caused more of the divorces amongst their friends/relatives, and I’d bet the majority would say the men did…either because of infidelity, physical/emotional abuse, drug abuse, gambling, or some other “deal breaker.” Neither my H nor I have many divorces in our extended family or social circle, but EVERY single one was because of male infidelity. I don’t care who filed in those cases…it doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>Nope. Happily married, our first and only, for 25 years. (Wife thinks so too.)</p>
<p>It’s apparent you have a very negative, even hateful opinion the male gender. I hope you never have custodial control over any child, especially a boy. As your mindset would be harmful to any child.</p>
<p>Toblin has implied he has a wife elsewhere. Whether or not it’s current, or he’s been jilted, or whatever, I don’t really care. What he sounds like is a person ■■■■■■■■, and who doesn’t like when people point out the broader issues at hand and/or is quick to cry “omgPC!!!manhater!!!”</p>
<p>EDIT (I was apparently typing while Toblin was!): </p>
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<p>Wow, called that one, didn’t I?</p>
<p>needtono, I know it likely won’t make any difference, but does your ex know that you and your daughter have absolutely NO access to the data he provides for the CSS profile. The non-custodial parent creates a separate logon id and password. If it didn’t work that way, my ex would have never completed it.</p>
<p>“Toblin sounds like one of the minority of men in the world that had a wife who behaved badly and then left him. Yes, such things happen, but you can pretty much ask anyone what/who caused more of the divorces amongst their friends/relatives, and I’d bet the majority would say the men did…either because of infidelity, physical/emotional abuse, drug abuse, gambling, or some other “deal breaker.” Neither my H nor I have many divorces in our extended family or social circle, but EVERY single one was because of male infidelity. I don’t care who filed in those cases…it doesn’t matter.”</p>
<p>Wow, I also don’t have many divorces in my extended family or social circle, but of those I know that got divorced in the last 5 years, the only infidelity was on the woman’s side. Most said they just did not love their husband’s anymore, though in most cases the husband’s were surprised. (In one case she filed weeks after asking for, and receiving a 3 carat 25th anniversary diamond ring.) The guys signed up for marriage counseling, the women blew it off. </p>
<p>I guess it just depends on your circle of friends.</p>
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<p>Agree that who initiates the divorce is not the material fact.</p>
<p>A good question was raised about whether a judge has ever ordered a married couple to pay for college. I’m not aware of any who have.</p>
<p>However, divorce is different, and there are way too many cases where the parents’ pain from the divorce leads to financial problems for the child when the child goes to college. We’ve seen literally hundreds of threads about that on cc alone. I’m merely suggesting that the kids in a family that is divorcing ought to have some influence on the ultimate divorce settlement through a person appointed by the court to look out for their financial interests, because it is not all about mom and dad. Even though kids can legally quit attending high school at 16 in most states, we don’t allow divorced parents to decide that they no longer have to support their 16-year-old because the kid could theoretically quit school and go out and get a job. If the opportunity for college is now considered a reasonable and likely option for children from most intact families, then judges should consider that requiring some cooperation from both parents to helping their children achieve a college education. Most of these things should be dealt with at the time of the divorce, not years later when bitterness and frustration over the divorce, custody and visitation, and second families comes into play, because most of the time it feels more like one parent trying to get back at the other than it does two parents trying to do the best they can by the child they created.</p>
<p>My Quote:
Would it be Elin’s fault if she filed for divorce from Tiger? Would it be Robin Gibson’s fault that she filed from divorce from Mel? Would it be Elizabeth Edward’s fault that she filed for divorce from John?</p>
<p>Ellemnope’s quote: Agree that who initiates the divorce is not the material fact. </p>
<p>Exactly…but that doesn’t stop some men from using that fact as some kind of implication that women file for divorce for financial gain (which is ridiculous because most women’s financial status decreases after divorce - even with child support.)</p>
<p>know that I will not see his financial information submitted to the colleges; but I already have that information indicating his purported financial ruin,Unfortunately, his income is rather high ($550K+ per year) and doesn’t his wife’s income have to be submitted thereby making his income even higher? Also the latest part of his tale of woe is that she no longer works (amazing how all this misfortune came about as the children were entering college!).<br>
Will his purported financial distress/bankruptcy matter?
BTW, he divorced me years ago after a twenty year marriage. The two children of his second marriage currently (and have for since their preschool days) attend private school for kindergarten and second grade at the cost of over $55K per year. What will colleges think of that???</p>
<p>need2no: </p>
<p>It seems from what you’ve posted that no matter what you do, your ex is going to give you a very difficult time when it comes to giving out his info or helping pay for college. I know it’s very frustrating and not fair at all, but for your sanity and your child’s sanity, I would try to go with colleges that don’t involve him at all financially. As one poster stated, there are only about 300 colleges/universities that require non-custodial parents’ info, so there are plenty of other schools out there - great schools as a matter of fact. This is the approach that my D and I used this year while she was applying to schools. It was no use fighting with her dad. We didn’t have any provision in our divorce agreement for post-high school costs, so we went the path of least resistance.</p>
<p>This is just my opinion. Take it for what it’s worth, but unless there was some kind of provision for college costs in your original divorce agreement, it’s usually a losing battle. If your children have any contact with their father, many schools feel that he has an obligation to pay and you won’t get a waiver for the CSS profile. If you read any of the financial aid info on some of the Ivies’ websites, it becomes painfully clear that they expect the non-custodial parent to contribute. Refusal to cooperate is not a legitimate reason for a waiver. I know it sucks but there’s really not much you can do.</p>
<p>This thread has taken a unique turn. I think most people will agree that there are scumbags of both genders, and there are fantastic single parents of both genders. So I won’t bother with the gender bashing or whose fault it was.</p>
<p>Getting back to the original question, I think even if the divorce agreement states that the non-custodial parent has to share in expenses, the amount to be paid may be different by state. Here in Illinois, I have heard from a few different families that the non-custodial parent is obligated to pay half of the average tuition for the 5 top instate public schools (UIUC, ISU, Western, Northern, and I think Eastern). The non-custodial parent also pays half of room and board. So even if D was able to get into Harvard, the NCP would not pay more than $10k. Something I had searched for on the web, and have not been able to find, is how the different states handle tuition between spouses. We included schools we know we will have no problem affording. D was upset at first, but then got excited about some of those schools. </p>
<p>On a good note, I believe Princeton does not require the NCP to complete the CSS Profile. D wouldn’t get into Princeton, so nothing lost there.</p>
<p>Most states have no case law regarding college payments in divorce settlements. This can always be negotiated by the divorcing couple and made part of a settlement agreement, but there’s no default split of college expenses or legal obligation on the part of either parent to pay for college.</p>
<p>Here is some information that might be slightly out of date, but it’s a start:</p>
<p>Alabama - Courts may require parents to provide post-minority support for child’s college education.
Alaska - Courts may not require parents to pay for college.
Arizona - No statute or case law holding parents to duty.
Arkansas - No statute or case law holding parents to duty.
California - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Colorado - Colo. Rev. Stat. § 14-10-115(1.5)(b) provides that for orders entered prior to July 1, 1997, support may be ordered. In re Marriage of Robb, 934 P.2d 927 (Colo. Ct. App. 1997).</p>
<p>Connecticut - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Delaware - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
District of Columbia - D.C. Code § 16-916 provides that minor children are entitled to support; the age of majority is 21.</p>
<p>Florida - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Georgia No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Hawaii - Haw. Rev. Stat. § 580-47 and Haw. C.S.G. provide that courts may order support for adult children in college.
Idaho - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Illinois - 750 Ill. Law. Con. Stat. § 5/513 provides that court may make provisions for educational expenses of child, whether or minor or majority age.
Indiana - Ind. Code § 31-1-11.5-12(b)(1) provides that a child support order may include sums for institution of higher learning.
Iowa - Iowa Code § 598.1(2) provides that support means an obligation which may include support for a child between 18 and 21.</p>
<p>Kansas - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Kentucky - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Louisiana - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Maine - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Maryland - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Massachusetts - Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 208, § 28 allows court to render support order for child between ages 18 and 21 who is dependent on parent for support.</p>
<p>Michigan - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Minnesota - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Mississippi - Age of majority is 21; college support may be ordered. Stokes v. Martin, 596 So. 2d 879 (Miss. 1992).
Missouri - Mo. R. Civ. Pro. 88.01; Mo. Rev. Stat. § 452.240.5 provides that support obligation may be extended to age 22 for college.
Montana - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Nebraska - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Nevada - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
New Hampshire - Gnirk v. Gnirk, 134 N.H. 199, 589 A.2d 1008 (1991) held that support may be awarded for college expenses.
New Jersey - Newburgh v. Newburgh, 88 N.J. 529, 443 A.2d 1031 (1982) held that court has jurisdiction to entertain motion to modify original judgment of divorce to award payment of college expenses.</p>
<p>New Mexico - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.</p>
<p>New York - N.Y. Dom. Rel. Law § 240(1-b)(c)(7) provides that court may award educational expenses for college to age 21.
North Carolina - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
North Dakota - N.D. Cent. Code § 14-09-08 allows court to order college expenses. Donarski v. Donarski, 581 N.W.2d 130 (N.D. 1998)
Ohio - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Oklahoma - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Oregon - Or. Rev. Stat. § 107.275(1)(e) authorizes court to order parent to pay support for child attending school to age 21. In re Marriage of Crocker, 157 Or. App. 651 (1998)
Pennsylvania - No authority to award college support.
Rhode Island - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
South Carolina - Court may order college support.
South Dakota - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Tennessee - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Texas - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Utah - Utah Code Ann. § 15-2-1 provides that in divorce actions, courts may order support to age 21.
Vermont - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Virginia - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Washington Wash. Rev. Code § 26.19.090 provides that the court may, in its discretion, award college support.</p>
<p>West Virginia - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Wisconsin - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.
Wyoming - No statute or case law holding parent to duty.</p>