Do assets count against you for financial aid?

<p>Hi
We are a two-income couple -- gross is about $180,000. We will have two kids in college in about a year. We also have two properties, one commercial, one a residential condo , which are both under water. THe commercial bldg we bought for $750,000 and is now worth $640,000 and houses my business --which only grosses $190,000. The condo is worth 225,000; down from $242,000 which we bought it for. </p>

<p>I am concerned our kids won't get into state schools, but might be get into private colleges. I tried the calculators on some school web sites and surprisingly, they said we could get an award -- not much to bring it down to a state-school level.</p>

<p>My question is would it worth our while to just unload these 2 assets this year for a loss and would that position us better for financial aid for colleges in 2015?</p>

<p>thanks.</p>

<p>Do you live in the condo? What equity do you have in it?</p>

<p>What equity is in the commercial bldg? Doesn’t sound like there’s any.</p>

<p>it’s only the equity that’s considered to be the “asset”. And that equity is based on an amount assuming a quick sale minus selling costs.</p>

<p>It sounds like these assets don’t have any equity to declare. Do they?</p>

<p>Why won’t your kids get into your state’s schools?? What state are you in???</p>

<p>edit…I see that you live in VA…why do you think they won’t get accepted to any VA schools???</p>

<p>I think it would impact you even more if you have cash sitting around. </p>

<p>I think you list the building as a business asset (is it in your name or business name?) and that reduces your exposure but I don’t really know how it works when the business assets and numbers are included. My advice would be to do a CSS profile on Collegeboard to see how it comes out. You could also do FAFSA to get to an EFC.</p>

<p>If you have only one kid going to college FA is a mirage at your income but with 2, one has a chance of getting some money. If they are twins starting together, then I am not sure how they will predict anything for the first year.</p>

<p>There are MANY public universities in Virginia…they aren’t all UVA or W-M. Hopefully your kiddos applied to the less competitive schools in VA.</p>

<p>As noted by Mom2, the equity in those properties that are not your primary residence is what counts. </p>

<p>Do you also have a primary residence that you own? While FAFSA doesn’t ask for that, any school that uses the Profile will ask for the equity in that property as well.</p>

<p>I will add, with an income of $180,000 per year, you EFC will be in the $45,000 to $50,000 a year range. Yes, when you have two in school, that EFC would be divided between them…but again…this would only guarantee an increase in aid at schools that meet full need. When our second kiddo entered college, her brother got $250 in additional aid. Hardly enough to make up the difference in his MUCH lowered EFC that year.</p>

<p>I’m not sure you would get much need based aid at most schools. Only the most generous and most competitive schools give need based aid at that income level.</p>

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<p>Ohmygosh. That’s a number that makes you stop and think, doesn’t it?</p>

<p>I will add, with an income of $180,000 per year, you EFC will be in the $45,000 to $50,000 a year range</p>

<p>I think it will be higher than that. I think with an income of about $150k, then FAFSA EFC is 45k-50k. I think with an income of $180k, FAFSA EFC will be about $65k. With two in school, it will be about $32k each.</p>

<p>HOWEVER…for CSS schools (mostly privates that give good aid), then your EFC could be higher since business assets may come into play. some of your business deductions may also get added back in as income. You may find that you don’t qualify for any aid at most schools.</p>

<p>Also, the split at CSS schools is not 50/50…it’s 60/60</p>

<p>Net Price Calculators are not accurate for business owners.</p>

<p>“Also, the split at CSS schools is not 50/50…it’s 60/60” </p>

<p>The guideline is 60/60 but, really, schools can do what they want which is why Thumper ended up with only $250 more with a 2nd kid in college. I agree with mom2ck’s numbers. Did you run the NPCs? I am a business owner and I run it twice-- with actual numbers and with higher numbers from my business-- just to see what the worst case scenario is.</p>

<p>The answer is that “yes, assets can reduce your financial aid”. The operative word is “can”. But not always.</p>

<p>There are a lot of things that go into getting financial aid. it usually starts with federal aid. You fill out the FAFSA. Bear in mind that the only thing that the FAFSA does is come up with an Expected Family Contribution number, the EFC. That number is used for FEDERAL money. With an EFC lower than a certain thresh hold, a student can get PELL grants. You are not likely to qualify, certainly not with the info you have given. Also some state funding and some federal funds that some colleges subscribe to also use that EFC. If the COA, or Cost Of Attendance, which is the official number that a college submits to the government is greater than your EFC, that amount is defined as need and can be met with financial aid, which includes subsidized loans, work study and very limited grants. A student can borrow even without need through STafford Loans up to $5500 freshman year, if the COA supports that and if there is need up to $3500 can be subsidized. Parents can borrow, again , up to COA less any aid and scholarships . Most schools also use the FAFSA as their financial aid application and will accept the model that COA minus EFC equals need. But very few schools, in fact, I believe none, guarantee to meet this need, and do so only for their most desired students. So even though you get a big fat need figure by reducing assets and getting you business situation valued at very little, and have little income, most of the time you get the need without the money to meet it. The EFC, for most, represents the least they can expect to pay unless a big Merit award comes into picture exceeding need, or the cost of the school is lower than EFC. </p>

<p>Your buildings will be assets for purposes of FAFSA valued at what you could NET for them if you sold right away. Any liens or mortgages on them wojuld reduce the value. That they are now worth less than you paid for them matters not one bit, except that the number you would use for their worth is less than what you would have had to use if they had retained their value or become more valuable. For FAFSA, the value of the buildings would be 5.6% of what their immediate sale net value would be if you have exceeded your asset allowance. Parents have a set dollar, at least $40K of assets that are excluded and that amount depends upon the age of the older parent and the number of dependents. </p>

<p>As others have said, the parental EFC is cut in half with 2 kids in college with each kid’s personal EFC added to it. If your kids have money sitting around, I recommend you set up an college savings account in the parent’s name and SSN but joint with the kid and have the money sit there if the amounts are not a lot and you want your child to have access to that account to pay her expenses. S/he can deposit into that account reimbursing you for the some of the expenses she is incurring. You do this because FAFSA hits a kid up 20% directly with no asset protection whereas a parent is assessed at 5.6% after protection. If there are a sizeable amount of assets, then a 529 might be the way to go. Also bear in mind that the day you fill out the FAFSA and other forms is what is used for the snapshot of your assets. You don’t want to pick a day when your accounts are flushed with your paycheck or you have some insurance money that you are going to using to pay some bills, because none of that is taken into account. You have $10k in that account with outstanding checks of $8K, balance is still $10K not $2K. If asked to verify, you will need to show account balances and they don’t want to hear about outstanding checks or what the money is earmarked for. It is a moment frozen in time and the stories don’t count.</p>

<p>PROFILE is a whole other story. Schools that tend to be more generous with aid, including those that guarantee to meet full need, define the need themselves. They often request an additional form called CSS PROFILE. UVA, one of the few state schools that meet full need, uses PROFILE. Unlike the FAFSA EFC, the contribution numbers that can arise from PROFILE can and do differ widely from school to school. Some include the value of your cars, many expect a certain set amount from the student, and they may evaluate business assets differently. If you own a business, that can be an issue with PROFILE. Small business owner can be hit very hard with the way a school looks at the business as an asset. PROFILE also usually includes the value of the primary home which is excluded by FAFSA, though various schools do cap that value by different amounts, usually at 2.4 X income. PROFILE also looks for NCP info when there are is a divorce or other such situation and at assets of the other children in the family. IF you thought EFC stood for Every Friggin’ Cent, well, you ain’t seen nuthin’ yet. PROFILE wants it all. They want to know the value of your retirement plans though they usually won’t use it, only if they think it is excessive. They want to know if Grandma is thinking about paying. They want to know if even think there is other money that might be coming in, never mind what you outright have. And PROFILE schools do not tend to split things 50/50 with two kids in college, as others have said. </p>

<p>So, getting money for college is not easy. Many of us who may qualify for some financial aid end up a lot of time with just enough at private schools so that they cost a little more or less, really the same as the state options. And being poor and needy is no panacea either since the school that tend to meet full need are the hardest to get acceptance and for most schools, all that is guaranteed are the federal monies which will pay for a commuter at a state school.</p>

<p>Thanks for the info. To answer some questions here, the equity in the commerical bldg. is low – probably $75,000. The condo, about $30,000. We live in a part of Virginia with a quota for W&M and UVA, so our kids could get into a Virginia school – at this point.
Does FAFSA and the schools ask for your info on 401ks and UTMAs and 529 plans?</p>

<p>If you have a total equity of 105k, only 5% counts towards available money. Not sure if it is 5% each kid.</p>

<p>My recommendation is to convert those UTMAs into 529s if at all possible because the treatment of them is more favorable. UTMAS in the kids’ names are counted as their assets, I believe. 529s, yes, are included as assets but as the parents’. The treatment is more favorable. Here is an article that explains this: <a href=“Should Parents Transfer College Savings from an UTMA Account to a 529 Plan? | Fastweb”>Should Parents Transfer College Savings from an UTMA Account to a 529 Plan? | Fastweb; </p>

<p>FAFSA does not ask for 401K info. Though PROFILE does ask for 401K info, it is very rare it is used except for at a very few schools and even then only if the amounts are considered too high to ignore. And, no, I’ve not ever heard the number of when that level is reached. UVA does use PROFILE, be aware.</p>

<p>If you have a total equity of 105k, only 5% counts towards available money. Not sure if it is 5% each kid.</p>

<p>Because EFC is split (for FAFSA), then in the end, it wouldn’t be 5% for each child. </p>

<p>The parents likely have other non-retirement assets.</p>

<p>For a married couple, about $40k-50k in assets are protected. </p>

<p>If the $30k in the condo is the primary home, it won’t get counted on FAFSA. Some CSS schools may not count that either.</p>