Do companies recruit at Grad schools?

Graduate School
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Your statement is patently false. MBA programs don't look at WHERE you worked, they look at what you did while you worked there.

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<p>Uh, it is hardly 'patently false'. It is OF COURSE true that these programs look at what you did where you worked, as opposed to just WHERE you worked. But the fact remains that certain jobs give you more opportunities to do more things than other jobs do. For example, if you graduate from college and end up in a job slinging coffee, you're probably not going to be able to amass the body of work necessary to get into a top MBA program. </p>

<p>Think I'm kidding around and that nobody ends up slinging coffee after graduating from college? Tell that to the guy who graduated from Berkeley with a degree in English and ended up as a barista at Starbucks, which is basically slinging coffee. </p>

<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/English.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/English.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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have also spoken to people who teach in business faculties, and they have told me in a very convcingin way that MBA admissions hinge on what your work experience consisted of, not where it was. Harvard Business School doesn't want some kid who went to work for Goldman Sachs after undergrad then loafed around did nothing for two years before applying for an MBA.

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<p>Again, nobody is saying that if you get a top job after undergrad, and then you just sit on your rear-end and do nothing, your chances of a top MBA program are assured. When did anybody ever say that? What the best jobs give you are OPPORTUNITIES. Sure, if you don't take advantage of those opportunities, then you will go nowhere. But at least you have the opportunities. Plenty of other jobs don't even give you the opportunities. </p>

<p>Again, to use Berkeley as an example, I see other graduates who ended up as head cashiers at Barnes & Nobles, another who became a waitress, and one became a "lumber puller" (whatever that is). </p>

<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/English.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/English.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Nor do I mean to single out Berkeley. Berkeley is a top school, and yet some graduates STILL end up in mediocre jobs. Hence, I'm quite certain that if I looked at schools that were ranked lower than Berkeley, I'd find plenty more graduates who ended up in mediocre jobs.</p>

<p>Look, the bottom line is this. Some jobs are simply better than others in the sense that they offer more opportunities and better chances for advancement and career development than others do. Going to a better school gives you a better chance at getting a better job. Now, granted, you still have to take advantage of those opportunities. Nobody has said otherwise. But you can't take advantage of opportunities that don't exist. There are in fact plenty of jobs out there where opportunities don't really exist. Like it or not, that's how it works. </p>

<p>This is true for post-MBA programs too. The top MBA programs give you a better chance of getting better jobs that provide more opportunities for career development. That's why the top MBA programs are so desirable. Once again, if you don't take advantage of those opportunities, then you will go nowhere. But at least those jobs provide you with the opportunities. Plenty of other jobs don't even do that.</p>

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<p>Sakky,</p>

<p>If you are saying that the job opportunities out of undergrad are better for a finance major from Harvard than for a finance major from UTEP, you're obviously right. The point I was trying to make is that, even though graduating from Harvard will allow you to network like no ones business, it is ultimately what you do after you graduate that appeals to MBA admissions, not where you do it.</p>

<p>Look, its obvious that, if given the choice and freed of all financial obligations, everyone would go to Harvard rather than UTEP. But is the difference in undergrad tuition really worth it for someone who ultimately wants to get an MBA? I would argue that it is not, having known several individuals who have gone to top MBA programs after having graduated from relatively unknown undergrad insititutions.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you are saying that the job opportunities out of undergrad are better for a finance major from Harvard than for a finance major from UTEP, you're obviously right. The point I was trying to make is that, even though graduating from Harvard will allow you to network like no ones business, it is ultimately what you do after you graduate that appeals to MBA admissions, not where you do it.

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<p>Of course! Nobody is disputing that you have to take advantage of your opportunities. </p>

<p>But the singular point is that you first have to have opportunities before you can take advantage of them. Some jobs provide more opportunities than others do. Let's be perfectly frank. There are a lot of truly crappy jobs out there that provide very few opportunities for career development. All things equal, you want to avoid such jobs and instead take jobs that provide you with good opportunities. The better schools give you better odds to get such jobs. Again, it is of course true that you have to take advantage of those opportunities. All the schools can do is open the door for you. You still have to walk through the door. But hey, at least the opened the door for you. Plenty of other college grads (i.e. all those college grads who end up waiting tables or manning cash registers or slinging coffee) don't even get an open door. </p>

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Look, its obvious that, if given the choice and freed of all financial obligations, everyone would go to Harvard rather than UTEP. But is the difference in undergrad tuition really worth it for someone who ultimately wants to get an MBA? .

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<p>Well, you're presuming a lot of things - specifically that it would actually be more expensive for such a person to go to Harvard, and that that person would care. </p>

<p>First off, if we're talking about Harvard, the truth is, plenty of students there are rich enough that they just don't care about the difference in cost between Harvard and, say, UTEP. Honestly, if you come from a family of millionaires, do you really care that much about saving $40k a year? Does it really matter? </p>

<p>Secondly, if you're truly poor, then Harvard might actually be a better financial deal than UTEP. That's right - * Harvard *. That's because Harvard is extremely aggressive when it comes to financial aid - far more so than almost all state schools. For example, Harvard has enacted financial aid policies that make it effectively free for any students whose families make less than 60k a year. I don't know of any state school, including UTEP, who is willing to make the same commitment. </p>

<p>As a case in point, I know 2 people from California who got into both their state school and to Harvard, and found out that it would actually be cheaper for them to * go to Harvard *, once financial aid was factored in. Essentially, Harvard offered them packages consisting of full grants + stipends, whereas their state school's package included some loans. Hence the choice was simple - go to their state school and go into debt, or go to Harvard for free. I will always remember one of them acidly commenting that ever since he was a kid, he had always dreamed of going to his state school, but he couldn't afford it, so he had "no choice" but to go to Harvard. {He was quite the deadpan joker.} </p>

<p>The point is, you cannot categorically state that Harvard is always the more expensive option for everybody, relative to a state school. Harvard is the expensive option for * some * people. But for some people, Harvard is actually the * cheaper * option. And even for those whom Harvard is the more expensive option, plenty of them are rich enough to not care anyway. </p>

<p>Heck, even if you're not poor, you can still get a very nice and lucrative merit package from an elite school. Take my brother. He could have gone to a strong state school. But they didn't offer him any money (we're not poor, so he didn't qualify for need). Caltech, on the other hand, offered him a full merit ride + stipend. So the choice was simple - go to the state school and have to pay, or go to Caltech * and get paid *. Doesn't seem like a close call to me. </p>

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[quote]
I would argue that it is not, having known several individuals who have gone to top MBA programs after having graduated from relatively unknown undergrad insititutions

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<p>Let me put it to you this way. Don't ask me how, but I have access to the HBS MBA alumni database, parsed by undergrad alma mater. Here are the top 15 undergrad schools, with numbers in paranthesis indicating the number of HBS MBA alumni who came from that undergrad program. </p>

<p>Harvard University (3220)<br>
Yale University (1481)<br>
Princeton University (1280)<br>
Stanford University (1167)<br>
Mass. Inst. of Tech. (983)<br>
Penn., University of (855)<br>
Dartmouth College (760)<br>
Cornell University (744)<br>
Brown University (725)<br>
Calif, U of,Berkeley (534)<br>
Mich, U of,Ann Arbor (456)<br>
U.S. Naval Academy (449)<br>
Williams College (430)<br>
U.S. Military Academy (424)<br>
Duke University (401) </p>

<p>Now of course Harvard itself is unsurprisingly #1, helped somewhat by homefield advantage and homefield preference (Harvard undergrads tend to prefer to go back to Harvard for grad school). But the rest of the top schools are also elite schools. </p>

<p>If you want to talk about UTEP - I can look up how many UTEP grads later went on to get MBA's at HBS. The database tells me that we have a grand total of 2. Yep, * two *. </p>

<p>Look, the bottom line is this. The data shows that attending a top undergrad program is very strongly correlated with getting a top MBA. Very strongly. Is it guaranteed that you will get it? Of course not. Can you still get a top MBA even if you come from a low-ranked undergrad program? Of course. But it's all about the odds. There are no guarantees in life - it's all about improving the odds. </p>

<p>Just like putting on your seatbelt doesn't guarantee that you won't die in a car accident. You could wear a seatbelt and still die in a crash anyway. But it does improve your odds.</p>

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<p>that's extremely humbling^</p>

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<p>O.K </p>

<p>So what should I do..... Go to UIUC ($20,000 for 4 years) or Michigan ($125,000 for 4 years)</p>

<p>I didn't get into either business school and I'm planning on ICT (inter college transferring) Ross will probably be a little bit harder to get into than UIUC's business school, but I'll try if I go to Michigan.</p>

<p>According to what the majority are saying on this thread, I'll have a better chance (although no guarantee) of becoming an investment banker. However, I'm still not 100% sure if I want to go into IBanking.....</p>

<p>Additionally, if I go to Michigan, I'm guessing I'll have a better chance of getting into it's graduate school which is a top MBA school. (again, no guarantee)</p>

<p>This is an extremely tough decision..... </p>

<p>Any feedback would greatly be appreciated. THANKS.</p>

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<p>Any thoughts?</p>

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<p>I'm pretty sure Michigan is much more recruited by Wall Street than UIUC. And tennis, forget about getting into an MBA program right out of undergrad. At least from what I can tell, your chance of that is about one in a million, and that one person has demonstrated entrepreneurial ability in college or significant work experience before attending undergrad.</p>

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<p>Sakky,</p>

<p>Informative post. I don,t have time to write a detailed response, but I tend to agree with alot fo waht you write. I think that, in essence, we are in agreement on alot of things here, we just disagree on some specifics.</p>

<p>Original Poster,</p>

<p>Go to UIUC. The type of financial discrepancy you speak of between attending UIUC and Michigan is wuite large, and the opportunities to you upon graduation aren't that much better for you at Michigan that it warrants that type of investment. Go to UIUC, work hard and get good grades, work for a few years, then apply to Business school. It will take you awhile, but it is a tried and true method to get into the business world.</p>

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<p>I agree.</p>

<p>The difference in price tag between UM anad UIUC is quite late for you.... although the recruiting at UM is generally better for Wall Street type jobs, I don't know if its worth that much difference.</p>

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<p>I really disagree - if you want to go to Wall Street, the publics you should be considering are UVA and UMich. Illinois is a fantastic school, but unfortunately it's all about old-boy networks (from everything I've read or heard) on Wall Street pretty much. Whether those old-boy networks are from your school or just someone you know, you've got to have some sort of connection. And you'll find way more UMich (MBAs or undergrads) alumni on Wall Street.</p>

<p>If you end up there (in high finance), $125,000 in loans won't bother you for more than 2 or 3 years after you graduate.</p>