<p>And I understand that, and it’s just as wrong. However, women have it worse, to put it frankly. Plus, women are paid less for the same jobs even though they might have the same experience and education, and don’t hold nearly as much power in society as men do.
Did you know that this kind of preference even begins in infancy? Baby boys are fed immediately and copiously, whereas baby girls are forced to wait for their milk. Also, boys are cooed to in different tones than girls.</p>
<p>Oh. I thought shaving/shopping/doing your hair was enjoyable, but if that’s having it hard…</p>
<p>The original post in question was quoting a VERY, supremely unintelligent list rattling off frivolous, hygiene-related hassles females have to go through. Now it’s turned into a serious social discussion on the acceptance and position of women today. I don’t think the said Facebook complaint deserves this much intelligent debate lol.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No way the work thing is accurate, in some cases it can be the opposite I see. As a high schooler my friend and I both applied to Starbucks, both honor students with pretty much some resume except I got denied and she didn’t. I just know that is not true from real life experience. Maybe because I am a homosexual, but none the less thats not the matter. </p>
<p>I can’t say much about the infancy as I have never had a kid nor am a doctor lol.</p>
<p>This isn’t about getting jobs (although I’m sure that that’s favorable to men too, considering the number of male CEOs to female), it’s about women earning 77 cents for every dollar a man would make.</p>
<p>Besides, that’s Starbucks. I’m talking about corporate jobs.</p>
<p><a href=“For%20instance,%20when%20people%20think%20%22rape%22,%20they%20immediately%20think%20that%20it%20must%20be%20a%20man%20who%20rapes%20a%20woman,%20whereas%20the%20other%20can%20happen%20just%20as%20easily.”>quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This was from a while back, but just to point it out: Not really.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Waaaaiiit a minute. Telling girls to **** and stop having sex instead of complaining about it is the most disgustingly condescending and patriarchal comment I’ve seen in a LONG while, because:
- LADIES HAVE NEEDS
- we have EVERY RIGHT to complain about things that are unjust
and the fact that you don’t want to admit this doesn’t make it ok to trivialize the **** we put up with just for being born with uteri. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As for the shaving thing, being almost completely hairless is, unfortunately, necessary to avoid harassment, rude comments, and other uncomfortable situations in today’s society. sorry if you are too absorbed in your own privileged cis dude problems (your pimple example is not a social prejudice unique to males. women have to put up with that and MORE) to realize that. not that i’m saying shaving is the most devastating issue in the world, but it’s all those little things that build up and put a huge amount of pressure on women.</p>
<p>All of this about employment, respect, etc. points back to the fact that we don’t currently, nor do I think we will ever, have a society in which men and women are truly considered equals. The reason is that men and women are not equals. Fair or not, men and women are different in a ton of ways, first and foremost anatomy and genetics.</p>
<p>Here’s a question: Would true equality make women’s lives easier? I don’t think so. It would mean the loss of the few advantages remaining as a result of being viewed as the fairer/weaker sex (which they are). Sure, maybe you gain a little more respect, and an extra 23 cents on the dollar, but what is that really worth? Not much.</p>
<p>How exactly are women weaker than men? </p>
<p>Physical strength has little to no effect on becoming successful in most developed nations. So how would becoming totally equal hurt women? </p>
<p>To me, respect is everything. Being disrespected on the basis of my gender is just as bad as being discriminated against for my race. The respect to be gained by equality is worth EVERYTHING. And the extra 23 cents adds up if you think about the thousands of dollars you are making a year. Why SHOULD we be paid less? Rationalize that. You probably can’t without making some seriously sexist and irrational argument about women being the inferior sex. </p>
<p>Being born a woman does not make you any less of a person, regardless of inherent anatomical or genetic differences from men. Women are human beings, entitled to the same rights as every man, and that is the bottom line. Arguing that equality would make life more difficult for women is irrelevant. The sexes should be equal on the principle that all people are created with the same human rights, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or creed.</p>
<p>Wow, talk about misinterpretation. I’m not discriminating or saying that women are somehow worse than men, I’m just saying that we’re different.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t recall saying that they were. I said that they had advantages from being viewed that way. If we’re going down that road though, physical and emotional strength come to mind.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m guessing that this is the fundamental point where we disagree. I don’t think the respect of others, in a general sense, is worth much of anything. What do I care if Joe Plumber down the street respects me? How does it affect my life?</p>
<p>Obviously, the love and respect of those close to you is important, but I’m not sure I see how gender equality will improve those much at all.</p>
<p>I’m a male, who has never lacked for respect. I’m intelligent, athletic,good looking and generally likable, and one of those things is generally enough to earn the respect of most anybody. Having had the respect of plenty of people, I’ve found that it really makes no difference to me, but this is surely coloring my perception. Perhaps you could tell me what it is that makes respect so desirable to you?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sure, the extra 23 cents will add up to tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars in your lifetime, but what does that get you, really? It’s been proven time and time again that money does not in fact equal happiness.</p>
<p>I have a friend who grew up poor. His EFC is 0, blah, blah, blah. This experience has made him want money. He’s trying to make up for what he never had as a kid, so he’s going for the highest paying major he can.</p>
<p>I also grew up poor. I’ve lived in a trailer my entire life. For the majority of my childhood, my parents didn’t make more than $30,000 a year, for a family of five. Where my friend and I differ is that what I’ve taken from this is that money doesn’t mean ****.</p>
<p>As for why women should be paid less, I don’t think they should. There’s no logical reason for it. It’s absolutely unfair.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, but it does make you different, whether for good or for ill.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not to my original point. This was never about whether or not equality is right. </p>
<p>My original point was that much of what was being complained about in the original post is actually self-inflicted, via the women’s rights movements.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe, but then we get into the discussion of what rights anyone has.</p>
<p>I ask you this, if men and women are different, why should each be treated the same? Should we treat autistic children the same as “normal” children? Should we not have handicapped parking, because that’s discrimination?</p>
<p>P.S. My apologies to everyone for the massive wall of quotes.</p>
<p>Everybody should stop whining and start making love</p>
<p>Guess what gender I am.</p>
<p>@manarius: I’m not sure I see where I misunderstood what you were trying to say. The way you phrased the argument on women being the “fairer/weaker” sex definitely seemed to imply that women were inherently weaker [I quote: “being viewed as the fairer/weaker sex (which they are)”]. Even in your following post you say “If we’re going down that road though, physical and emotional strength come to mind.” which to me implies that you DO in fact think men are stronger than women, which I disagree with to an extent. I think men are OBVIOUSLY stronger in a physical sense. However, I would argue that women and men have comparable levels of emotional strength. Women are portrayed as being more emotional and more open with their feelings, but this is not a rule and by no means makes women weaker. Just different, which seems to be your major point, although you certainly did say you think women are weaker. </p>
<p>“Perhaps you could tell me what it is that makes respect so desirable to you?”</p>
<p>You pretty much admitted you’ve never had a problem receiving respect as a good looking, athletic, intelligent, and generally likable young man. </p>
<p>I am a reasonably attractive, athletic, intelligent, and generally likable young woman. People compliment my appearance often, I’ve played sports since I was 5, I am at the top of my class, and I have a lot of friends. However, I have been severely disrespected because I am a girl. I have been whistled at on the street, had horrible, disgusting things said about my body, I’ve been sexually harassed, I have been pressured to have sex and then abused for saying no (not physically but emotionally), I’ve been accused of being “too smart” “too athletic” “too opinionated” “too driven” for a girl, and I’ve had people tell me I can’t do certain things because I am a girl (and I’ve gone on to prove them wrong). I’ve had people tell me that my dreams are stupid and I should just be a stay at home mom. I’ve had people tell me I better marry up young because my looks won’t last forever, and that’s all I’m really good for anyway. </p>
<p>But I am similar to you in every way that you used to describe yourself. I SHOULD have an equal amount of respect, logically. What is the difference between us that should cause me to be treated this way, while you are not? </p>
<p>Can you see now why respect is something I value very highly? Not having respect can make you feel subhuman. No one should be treated subhuman. Perhaps the bigger issue is the fact that I have been DISRESPECTED time and time again, simply because of my gender. </p>
<p>“I ask you this, if men and women are different, why should each be treated the same? Should we treat autistic children the same as “normal” children? Should we not have handicapped parking, because that’s discrimination?”</p>
<p>Men and women of equal mental capacities should be treated equally. Obviously when disability is involved, treatment is not the same. However, the differences between men and women are not the same as the differences between the disabled and the healthy. Being a woman is not a debilitating thing. It does not cause me to be less capable than you. Thus, I should be treated the same. </p>
<p>Being a woman should not be harder than being a man for any of the superficial reasons listed by the OP. It is, however, made more difficult by the treatment of women compared to the treatment of men. </p>
<p>Perhaps you can see where I am coming from now.</p>
<p>^ Will you be my g-g-g-g-girlfriend??</p>
<p>Actually there is arguably a reason why women are paid less: maternity leave. Generally women tend to take much more of it than men and thus they are technically less profitable than men.
Additionally, when controlling for the actual occupation the pay gap lessens considerably to something like 10%.</p>
<p>@leatherlibrarian: Valid point. But not every woman takes maternity leave. However, I can see where that is a difference that could cause justified difference in pay. Is there any data adjusted to compare women who do not take maternity leave with men who hold the same job position and their respective incomes? </p>
<p>@woeishe: Do you always st-st-st-st-stutter when you type?</p>
<p>@qdawg Lol nope, but my question has been asked.</p>
<p>I don’t know if you’d want me… The kitchen is only my second favorite room in the house…</p>
<p>@qdawg2011
Where do you live? What a sexist town! No girl has ever received that kind of treatment where I live.
I think it depends on the place. The people in my city don’t tell girls they are “too smart” “too athletic” or anything like that.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Fair enough. I didn’t recall saying that, though I think I was actually referring to the “fairer” part more than the “weaker” part. Still, my fault.</p>
<p>Also, much of the gender inequality is a remnant of times past, where physical strength was far more important than it is today.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think this is all about how you look at it. You can view some of these things as, say, misguided compliments. Not the pressured then abuse part. </p>
<p>Also, even viewing it as respect, any man who would say and do those types of things is a complete *******. In my view, their respect is worth absolutely nothing.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Once again, these are not the type of people whose respect I feel should be valued.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can see that it is important to you, and I can somewhat see why, but the reasons seem a bit superficial to me (trying to be honest here, not derogatory). I feel like having the respect of someone like Bill Gates would be worth a hell of a lot more than the respect of, say, Tucker Max.</p>
<p>I feel like you may be too fixated on the respect of the “common people”, if you will. My point is that those whose respect is worth something will not disrespect you for being a woman.</p>
<p>Again, my opinions are certainly affected by my experiences, and if put in your position I would probably see things a little differently. And while being insulted by these people can certainly be downlifting (not a word, but whatev), I think it’s important for you to keep your head up and remember how they are.</p>
<p>To summarize, I agree that the disrespect here is wrong, but at the same time, I think that you put too much stock in it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A lot of the inequality is spillover from the past, when being physically weaker actually did make you considerably less capable. In most careers, being a woman does not make you any less capable. In some, it may actually help, but there are places where it still does hurt.</p>
<p>Consider the military. Should women be forced to join the draft? Forced to up and leave their children to join the military? Should they be put in infantry? No, because they have certain strengths (motherhood, I guess) and weaknesses (physical strength) which make them more apt for other roles. Even though the original hunter/protector and mother paradigms are going out of style, there are still places where they do apply.</p>
<p>So, yes, women should be treated the same, to a certain extent, but it can be carried too far. Maybe someday, society will have advanced to a stage where true equality is possible (though I doubt it), but we are not there yet.</p>
<p>One other thing that bothers me is how some woman lament the “death of chivalry”, but then turn around and say they want to be treated equally. Double standard much? Which brings me back to the original point of, “stop whining”.</p>
<p>Edit:
</p>
<p>This made my day :)</p>
<p>Haha. I dunno about women being the “fairer” sex… I know some pretty boys… (all joking aside, sorry for the misunderstanding there). </p>
<p>Meh, the death of chivalry goes both ways. Men have by and large stopped being gentlemen, but how many ladies do you see in the world today? I think both sexes need to practice some common courtesy that has been lost in time. </p>
<p>I definitely agree that a lot of inequality is spillover from the past. Definitely a true statement. And I think the draft should be done away with entirely, but I see your point there as well. </p>
<p>And the respect of the “common people” is much less valuable to anyone than the respect of Bill Gates, but you are much more likely to be effected daily by the common people (who tend to be ignorant and make the sexist comments that are so degrading and wrong). So I definitely see where you are coming from, and it makes sense, for sure, but I do not think it is superficial to want general respect and courtesy from even the common people. </p>
<p>And for what its worth, NO295208, I currently live in southern California. But I’ve lived in 8 states, so its not totally reserved to one area of the nation… Although it has been the worst here.</p>