Do Harvard, Yale and Princeton not take "normal" kids?

Applying to College
81

<p>I thought the original post was incredibly sad - and demonstrates the type of person who is most likely to not get into HYP or other top schools:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>takes limited data from CC (most applicants don’t post here) and makes a conclusion about the type of student that can be attracted to this school.</p></li>
<li><p>ignores a number of threads that say exactly the opposite.</p></li>
<li><p>ignores the data that many top students get into few or none of the top schools for a variety of reasons.</p></li>
<li><p>ignores the fact that discussion boards (any discussion board) breeds a certain pathology and obsession about top schools and perceived qualifications.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Adcoms aren’t stupid. They’re pretty good at identifying the students who are coached and/or have tutors. </p>

<p>It’s easy to dismiss an admissions decision as predicated on some predetermined criteria. But it’s not. It’s more art than science - with a number of students you’ve never met getting the “golden” admissions ticket soley for being normal, well-rounded and academically qualified. But someone, somewhere will try to attach a “tag” to them to explain why they, themselves were not given the same opportunity (jock, minority, urban, foreign, left-handed, …whatever).</p>

<p>I’ve been interviewing for more than 3 decades and I’ve recommended some students who didn’t fit the profile and suggested a “not-admit” to some who had stellar credentials on “the surface.” Adcoms look for passion, ability, and unique experiences. They look at overcoming an adversity, facing a challenge as well as academic prowess and test scores.</p>

<p>A student who designed robots from birth might be turned down at MIT while a student who loves science but also loves accapella choir might be chosen.</p>

<p>There is no set criterian. Only “fit” for the student body and a gut attempt to create a student body that has broad representation of many interests. And trust me - all institutions love the idea of molding potential. I recently heard a story about an applicant at a major school that admissions struggled over. After much soul searching, they took the risk. The student went on to be Valedictorian his senior year.</p>

<p>So limited data from a discussion board or from internet rating pages does not a definitive conclusion make. Sorry - I know many are searching for answers for why they didn’t fit. In a different year, the results might have been different since it changes with the individual mix of applicants each year. </p>

<p>But I’ll suggest something else - it is fair to say that someone who has worked towards a specific goal for many years (getting into Harvard, Yale, etc.) - who knows the personality of the school and their requirements and doesn’t wait until 11th grade to start their planning - is very likely to get admitted. Planning, preparation, and passion for a specific school often comes through on the application. </p>

<p>I love asking “Why MIT” in an interview. Because more often than not I’ll get a generic answer like “I like science” and “It’s a top school.” It’s the ones that have done their homework and then pursued courses and EC’s that fit the profile of the Institute that get my attention - and the Institute’s. (hint - if you think it’s limited to just math and science geeks you’re missing the big – and obvious – picture).</p>

<p>A lot of ordinary students DO matriculate. And a lot of extraordinary students do not. It’s just the way it is.</p>

82

<p>Well just because you get a super high SAT score and take hard classes does mean you’re not normal. It just means you are academic and good at taking the SAT…which is how you get in to college. It’s like if a kid who goes to a community college calls a kid who guys to a respectable four year university “not normal”. If by normal you mean average, then yes, you must be above average to get in. But it’s not like the people who get in have unfair advantages (the ones who are not legacies etc.), they are just matches for the school. Calling them “not normal” is just an excuse. They are normal is human terms, just not academic.</p>

83

<p>ExieMITAlum, I have to say I agree completely.</p>

84

<p>Fallenchemist, we are very proud of our daughter, and she worked very hard to achieve what she did.
I have to say that luck plays a huge part in this process. I remember following some of the RD threads and was sad to see that some very outstanding CC-ers were not as lucky as my D was, even though they were just as qualified.</p>

85

<p>Of course. They don’t have room for normal people when so many exceptional people apply.</p>

86

<p>harvard is full of weirdos</p>

87

<p>Yea, this post sounds true =(</p>

88

<p>This topic is really funny, I came across it on the most discussed topics list, and honestly, couldnt stop laughing at all the replies.</p>

<p>Let me offer my humble point of view. Firstly, if those three schools (or any good school for that matter), started accepting any random person with average sat scores, gpas, portfolios, then how would they choose who to be accepted? Random lottery? </p>

<p>It also seems like you are unhappy about the fact that you can’t/didn’t get into those three schools, but assume if you did, with your 1800 sat score and 3.5? gpa and average ability. Its really funny to imagine how you would even serve to exist as a minuscule fish in a sea of whales, lol. Inconsequential.</p>

<p>I read somewhere up there about a person who said there are people who are ivy-material but choose to attend ‘normal’ colleges, and then earn as much as ivy graduates. Totally true!</p>

<p>I’d also like to repeat 'offtocollegemom’s comment about her daughter doing exceptionally well and then getting into her desired college which is also the top in the world. Truth is, some people are smarter than others, and being the top 0.5% of the world roughly amounts to being 1 in 3,600,000 people who are smarter than you. It doesnt matter how much sat tuition you get, how many subjects you get private tutoring for; in the end, it all boils down to your innate ability plus how far you can enhance it, and even then you’re still just a person slightly smarter than most people, and IF you get into yale/harvard/princeton, imagine yourself being ranked 1percentile, hahaha.</p>

89

<p>I honestly don’t feel any sympathy for this OP AT ALL, because if you think about it HYPS was made for people with exceptional ability. These schools weren’t made for people with “average” grades and scores, but people who persevered and succeeded. This is not to say that a person with average scores is unsuccessful in any way, but it just means that they can’t get into HYPS (this is not something to cry about…).</p>

<p>Also, it’s NOT true that HYPS only accepts people with a 2300+, they accept people who have shown a love for learning, have overcome great obstacles, and have demonstrated that they can handle the workload at any of these schools (It is true that your chances for admission are close to none if your GPA slips below a 3.9 depending on your high school).</p>

90

<p>“It is true that your chances for admission are close to none if your GPA slips below a 3.9 depending on your high school”</p>

<p>Now that’s definitely NOT true. Check out the official decisions threads for starters and look at how many students get in despite having below a 3.9 for starters.</p>

91

<p>I think the topic begs the question that if we were to lower the bar and allow average students to attend Ivy league schools, would they become exceptional students? </p>

<p>My guess is that it wouldn’t and is like comparing a factory production car to a high performance racing car designed for racing. One starts off as a good car to get you around town. The other starts out as an exceptional car designed for racing. Which one do you think would make it to the academic finish line?</p>

92

<p>itsmylife99: After reading your post, something crossed my mind. When you were able to get this many responses to your post by the way you asked or questioned the status quo, I personally believe this is what IVY’s look for. Question the normal or status quo, if you can bring new perspectives to the table. I am hoping if you can write a thought provoking essay, who knows you may be in Ivy by next Fall ! Show to the world a different and refreshing way of looking at things rather than just criticism in one direction.
Good luck!</p>

93

<p>vbv8dad has a good point. itsmylife99 did start a provocative thread. If he could write a similarly stimulating essay and get his SAT score up A LOT then maybe he could get into HYP . . . oh wait, there is that gpa. Nevermind.</p>

94

<p>It’s sad that so much time and money is spent building an “Ivy” profile, but being an Ivy League alum gives you instant cachet, whether you deserve it or not. People targeting high profile schools start following “the formula” in grade school. I am surprised colleges aren’t savvy to this, especially when it comes to “giving back to the community.” Please. There are high schools that build volunteer work in to the curriculum to boost students’ resumes. I embrace volunteerism, but it has become a mandate, not a choice, and doesn’t prove anything these days. Building a resume that hits on key admissions points has become a part-time occupation for students and an industry for college coaches, etc. Being a happy, well-adjusted student with good grades and a few ecclectic interests doesn’t cut it for Ivies. I think there are a lot of unhappy, stressed-out kids being coerced into fulfilling their parents’ dreams. There is a book, “Harvard Schmarvard,” that takes on this topic and tries to debunk the mystique. How ironic that the author and his wife both went to Harvard. His children go to high profile schools. Guess he just can’t let go. My son attended a private school where one of the Deans lectured parents that getting into the Ivy League wasn’t necessarily the best thing for a child. Hey, I’ll grant you that, but he was from Brown, and most of the other administration were also Ivy. Do they hear themselves?</p>

95

<p>Do you hear yourself? Because they went to an Ivy they must be wrong? Only a non-Ivy can have that opinion? And listen to the way you paint every student that does volunteer work or starts their own business or whatever with the same brush. “Oh, it must be parents pushing” or “Oh, they have college coaches telling them what looks good”. Does this happen? Sure it does, but at least as often, if not more often, these kids are either brought up with solid values (unless you want to argue there are no households that actually teach their kids right from wrong) or just have that kind of drive inside them for any number of reasons. Besides, while certainly parents can influence their kids to do things, more often teens are willful, stubborn and trying to assert their independence. Or don’t you have teenagers, lol?</p>

<p>BTW, my D got accepted to 2 Ivies (H and D) and we had no coaches, she had very ordinary EC’s and community work, and the Ivies were not her real goal. She just wasn’t 100% sure and didn’t want to regret not applying. Not going was both an economic decision and one of fit. She didn’t like the vibe at H, and D was too rural. She took a full tuition scholarship elsewhere.</p>

96

<p>My Harvard kid is very normal-she happens to have all the right stuff.The point I want to make is that she has always done amazing humanitarian things,and she never did it for her resume ,but because she really cares. As an example a couple of Thanksgivings ago ,there was a girl who mom was going to jail for something .They had lost their apartment,and had nowhere to go for Thanksgiving .A lot of people were aware of this but my D invited the student, her mom, and grandma to join us for Thanksgiving . It is sort of caring that gets noticed and remembered by faculty ,and I’m pretty sure got mentioned in a teacher rec. Even now,if someone asks my D where she is attending college ,she answers " Boston" ,not Harvard ,unless somebody asks .From a very young age she has followed her interests .She babysat in Spain for a month at 16 ,to improve her Spanish. Last summer she volunteered for 7 weeks on a farm in Sweden ,because she was interested in organic farming .Is this normal teen stuff .We aren’t rich- we have 4 kids ,2 in college at same time .The people we met in the dorms seemed very normal, as did the parents .They just happen to be very smart.</p>

97

<p>Not one of my four kids ever went on a service trip (we could never have afforded such things for four kids). However my first three kids had a true desire to learn and that is what came through on their college applications. Were they exceptional… yes. They all volunteered right here in our own home town for causes that were near and dear to them. The Ivy’s and other top schools are looking for that certain something. It is a combination of grades, scores, EC’s, and just the way you live your life. Could everyone attend these schools…no and they would not want to. The top schools are not meant for the average kid. There are plenty of great schools for above average kids and all others. That is what is meant by finding your fit. </p>

<p>For those who think the top schools are looking for those who have cured cancer or have gone on expensive trips to bring plumbing to third world countries you are so very wrong. That is another difference with top kids…they have very realistic attitudes and care about what they do. There is no secret to admittance to these schools…it really is just about your philosophy on how you live your life.</p>

98

<p>i only read the first post, but to the OP: if you’re not special, you don’t deserve to go to a special school. that’s why there are thousands of normal schools for normal kids. sorry that it bothers you, but if you don’t do something about it, it won’t change. get over it.</p>

99

<p>I’d’ just like to point out that a 2000 on the SAT is at the 93rd percentiles and a 2100 is the 97th percentile. Doesn’t sound like the “average” you make it out to be.</p>

100

<p>There’s a reason why some people will never get in HYP. I volunteer for charity events every weekend because I truly enjoy it. Although I do enjoy getting drunk and making friends over the weekend, but nothing means more to me than seeing the smile of a person in need. HYP are the places for people who will change the world some day, social responsibility and exceptional grades no doubt should be required. :)</p>