<p>I have been reading threads in many forums and have realized that most of the college candidates have near perfect test scores, grades and class ranks. Additionally, they must all be members of MENSA given their prodigious accomplishments at such a tender age. </p>
<p>Do applicants with top grades and 98-99 percentile test scores whose leadership and community service accomplishments are more reflective of a normal high school student going to be considered by any of the Ivy League or top 10 schools?</p>
<p>Top grades, very high SATs and excellent recs and strong but typical ECs often can get students admitted to a top 10-20 university, with some weight thrown in for gender considerations and ability to pay full freight as opposed to needing financial assistance. Those universities where the acceptance rate has dipped into the single digits are much harder to predict .</p>
<p>From our average public h.s. in CA, the kids who have gone to HYPSM are not necessarily candidates for the Nobel at their tender ages. They are top students in rank (not always val/sal), high in SATs (at least NMS commended), and have something else to bring to the table that the college adcoms are looking for. First generation to go to college (Y). Top female athlete/scholar entering chemical engineering (MIT), all-around bright outgoing striver but coping with highly dysfunctional family situation (H). It's the something else in addition to the top grades and scores that gets "average" kids into the most selective colleges. And only the adcoms for that particular college for that particular year are going to have a handle on what that something else is going to be. Also, don't underestimate "school support," that is, how enthusiastically the h.s. counselors and teachers recommend and champion a particular applicant. I think it definitely makes a difference.</p>
<p>The true elites (HYPSM et al) are way beyond taking "normal" kids. They seem to look for stardom potential of some kind. Below them, I think things become much more predictable.</p>
<p>One issue to be aware of is the importance of recruited athletes and legacies at some schools, including all of the ivies. Admissions practices for these two groups, especially the athletes, tends to distort the published enrollee stats. For instance, a non-hooked kid who has stats that put him in the middle of the pack according to published stats is likely to be in he bottom quartile of the non-hooked kids. So "normal for some schools can be hard to define. This is true at some top ranked LACs too.</p>
<p>However, unless you subscribe to the "game theory" approach to college admissions, the best you can do is give your desires a shot, but plan backups. </p>
<p>In my (limited) experience, "normal" kids tend not to get into HYPSM unless they are recruited athletes, legacies, or URMs. Yes, there are a few exceptions, but those exceptions are chosen from an incredibly large pool of equally capable applicants.</p>
<p>At the level just below HYPSM (meaning the rest of the top 20 universities, plus the top liberal arts colleges), plenty of normal kids get in. I know "normal" kids attending Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Duke, Brown, Barnard, Vassar, and Cornell, among many other very highly regarded institutions.</p>
<p>My daughter has already been accepted to her local safety schools. UT- Austin & Texas A&M Engineering. They have sent her information on their Honors programs. Several schools have called and offered full ride scholarships. Texas public universities have good engineering programs.</p>
<p>She applied ERD to Stanford though she doesn't think she has a chance and would also like to go to Columbia, Cornell or Wash U. She has a good chance of getting into Wash U for BioMedical. HYPM all contacted her the day SAT & ACT scores were posted. Are application fees a form of fundraising?</p>
<p>She was an AP Scholar with Distinction at the end of 11th grade and is NM Commended. She is taking 7 AP classes this year and is on the Debate team. She doesn't like to debate, but loves to do most of the team's research, write the arguments, puts together all of the files for Congress and trains the Freshman Debate team.</p>
<p>She has been a class officer for all four years in HS and is on the regional board of her synagogue movement youth groups. They plan 6 weekend events per year and this is as time consuming as a full time job. </p>
<p>She has also been on the board of her local youth group before that. They raise between $15,000-20,000 to take 100 children who live in area shelters and/or go to Title I schools for camp for a week. They plan all of the programs and serve as counselors. Even though these kids are 'normal' (and most have stellar academics and test scores) they are heros to the 100 kids who go to this camp (which has received national awards) and their mothers (many of whom were abused and had to flee their homes). Unfortunately, the new computer common application that only allows certain number of characters does not make it easy to describe these activities.</p>
<p>I agree completely with Marian.
My 2300 son with some very nice things to recommend him went to Dartmouth.
My 2350 daughter who is a very, very talented dancer is attending Princeton.</p>
<p>OP, first of all, congratulations to you and your D. She sounds like a very wonderful person and student. In my book, a 98-99%tile is way way above normal. </p>
<p>I am very interested in your statement of "HYPM all contacted her the day SAT & ACT scores were posted.". Could you please explain how the contact were made? Did they call your D?</p>
<p>Some letters some e-mail with congratulations on her achievement, acknowledging that she may have already made her college choices and asking her to consider applying or applying ED. . . I do realize that it means nothing in the application process, but obviously something hit their radar.</p>
<p>According to UT the 36 math 35 english on the ACT converts to a 1520-1560 on the old SAT. Her writing scores were 750 and 11 respectively. Most AP Scholars with Distinction have completed their senior year. If she went to her state school today she would have enough college credits to be a sophmore. For HYPMS it generally means that she is capable of handling a college course load.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Several schools have called and offered full ride scholarships.
[/quote]
Who would that be?</p>
<p>And to answer the specific question , a "normal" kid who can express themselves in such a way that a particular school sees what it values, and what they need, can get in. A run of the mill, half-hearted app will doom them.</p>
<p>BTW, according to the SAT folks at collegeboard a 35 composite is a 1580.</p>
<p>Composite 34. Total came to 34.35. 34 is still 99+ percentile over all. Science was a 32. Not great, but not too low.</p>
<p>It wouldn't break her heart to go to UT.</p>
<p>Georgia Tech told her to get her app in early to qualify for the Presidential Scholarship. University of Oklahoma has offered her a full ride with cash back. Purdue's basic package will give her instate tuition and they said she is elgible for a host of other scholarships.</p>
<p>When HYPM contacted her they included their application and financial aid info with the congrats letter. My daughter never contacted them because she is not interested in those schools. Other than MIT, which she does not feel is a good fit for her, there are other schools that rank higher in her proposed area of study. Georgia Tech is #2 in Biomedical. UT ranks #9 overall in Engineering. She sent her ED to Stanford. She visited Stanford, Columbia, Wash U, and Berkeley. Hated Berkeley.</p>
<p>Some of the participants in this thread also participated in that thread. I'm updating my numbers offline over the next few days. The basic idea is that the most desired colleges have such small entering freshman classes each year that they can afford to be VERY choosy, but many other really great colleges cannot be nearly as choosy, because "abnormal" applicants for admission are quite rare. I'll leave it to everyone else to define what is normal and what is abnormal. </p>
<p>After edit: </p>
<p>SAT composite score frequencies (number of distinct individuals with each highest single-sitting composite score) for class of 2007: </p>
<p>A 34 is an exceptionally good score. She should be very happy. Check out the stats . A 34 is at or above the 75th percentile for every college in the nation. That is where an un-hooked kid needs to be IMO. It is the benchmark I use. </p>
<p>She has all the stats. Now she needs to be sure her app speaks to a strong consistent compelling reason to admit this kid over equally qualified un-hooked kids. A female in Engineering is STILL a big plus at most schools. Did she apply to Fu at Columbia and to Penn SEAS? My D was at one time interested in Bio-Medical Engineering and looked at both programs. Of course, JHU is always out there.</p>
<p>Nice list. You mentioned scholarships. Is FA all in line? Are you comfortable with the need only schools? I assume so with the Stanford early app.</p>