Do I have a fair shot at top colleges? I'm international and I'll take a gap year

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Introduction: I’m a 17 year old male Senior in High School. I’m from Argentina. Because of our country’s economy I’ll have to apply to the top schools, as those are the ones who have financial aid based on demonstrated need, and most say that requiring financial aid doesn’t affect your chances of admission. If you know any other college with higher acceptance rates that also has this kind of financial aid with in-campus housing, please tell me, as I haven’t found any and it’d really help me.
I’ll take a gap period. I don’t have the applications ready for this period, and my profile isn’t very strong right now. Also, I’m pretty close to a burnout haha. My plan is to end this gap period as soon as possible (ideally I’d apply for the period that begins in august) as i think that’s the optimal plan, but i could hold the whole year if neccesary. I’ll dedicate this period to work, rest, and make my applications as strong as possible.

Demographics
-International from CABA, Argentina
-Average high school. Has no AP courses or extras whatsoever, is pretty small with no big participation in extracurriculars or similar stuff.
-Male/Latino (almost white-skinned for most, this doesn’t mean that I’m not a latino)

-I’m currently planning to pursue a math degree.

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
-IMPORTANT: Argentina does not use a GPA grading system, there’s no such thing as a weighted grade. Grades are considered in a 1 to 10 scale, taking the averages. In this scale my current grade would be around a 9.3/10 global. Stands out my 10/10 (perfect grade) in Math, Statistics, Physics and Chemistry (there are other 10/10s, but this are the relevant ones for my chosen degree as they are pure STEM)

  • Class Rank: top 1 of my class. Valedictorian dosen’t exist here, but i guess this is the equivalent
  • ACT/SAT Scores: Still haven’t taken my SAT. I did some SAT practices though, and it seems to go around 1490/1600

Coursework
I did a Differential Calculus course online at Edutin Academy, as well as a financial education course. I plan on doing many more courses in my gap year
I’m also currently doing the CBC, which is an intensive course required to apply to the national university of Argentina (the UBA). I wouldn’t actually apply to the degree itself, but I’d like to know if i can use this info to increase my chances of getting in (this intensive course includes college level physics, chemistry, and goes all through calculus).

-I won the 2nd and 3rd place at a state-level Karate competition. There isn’t much more than that haha

Extracurriculars
*IMPORTANT: This is the strongest part of my application. Please consider this one.
As i said, my school had literally 0 extracurricular activities, and I was never encouraged to participate on any competition. This is why I did not participate on math olympiads; I literally didn’t know (until too late) that this was a possibility in the real world, outside of the movies. Same for clubs. Therefore, I decided to change that in my school and began pushing towards the founding of clubs. I’m the founder and leader of the Debate and Literature club, and the reason clubs exist in my school whatsoever. This was hard, so I need to make it clear in my applications. Also, I’ll found at least 1 (hopefully 2) more clubs in the few months remaining of my senior year, and I’ll keep all four (as well as push younger peers so they found their own clubs) in my gap period. In this period I’ll work, participate in the clubs, do math courses, and some other projects i have planned
Essays/LORs/Other
*I haven’t done my essays yet, I already have a lot of ideas though. I’m pretty proud of my literary capabilities and I’m sure they’re better than those of other pursuers of a math degree, so I’m guessing my essays will be pretty strong, like an 8/10

Cost Constraints / Budget
*I’m not able to pay the whole price, like i said before I’m forced to live in campus and depend of financial aid. I’ll only have the few money I can make in my gap period, which after the conversion to dollars will be a ridiculously low in America.

Schools
I’ll apply to as many schools with total financial aid as possible. I ideally aim for Harvard and MIT, but i get that this might be unrealistic. The whole America college thing isn’t my only plan for the future, just another possibility (obviously the best scenario of them all). I don’t think I have a good shot at all, I’d just like an estimate of how bad my situation is. I’m open to any recommendation for non-top colleges, just consider my limitations result of my economical situation

Not sure if that’s enough information, I’ll give more data if needed, just ask for it. Thank you for reading this

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Most do not say that. In fact, only a handful do. Specifically, Amherst, Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Yale are need- blind for international applicants and meet full demonstrated need. Some others are Need-Blind, but won’t meet need.

True, but the URM advantage does not apply to international applicants

For MIT, the international acceptance rate us 1.4%. For other Need-Blind colleges, Google last year’s acceptance rate and divide by three.

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Blockquote Most do not say that. In fact, only a handful do. Specifically, Amherst, Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Yale are need- blind for international applicants and meet full demonstrated need.

Oh, that’s problematic. I was badly informed apparently, it’s pretty hard to search this completely alone as I’m forced to search about each college specifically, one at a time, and some of them word stuff in a way that results confusing to those of us who aren’t used to it. Here, universities are pretty straightforward about that stuff. So, those are the only colleges who check both variables? What about colleges who cover demonstrated need, but on which your chances may be reduced because of this financial aid? Do you think that kind of colleges are a viable option?

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Realistically? No.

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Makes sense. I’d like to know if there’s any way I can boost my chances to a reasonable level. I have no problem on picking Early Decision if needed, and i got a lot of time to make my profile better. I just have to choose the right activities i guess, also I have time to study for the SAT, i hope I’ll be able to get over 1540 for the real exam

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There are great affordable universities in Argentina which are a good option for you. American universities are expensive, there is little aid for foreign students, and those admitted to top schools need to have stronger qualifications than the domestic students.
Many of the international students at my daughter’s top college have national or international level awards.

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There are great affordable universities in Argentina which are a good option for you

I understand that, they are my main realistic option. I just know i will regret it if i don’t and give my best in it, you know? Maybe i should just give up this project entirely, but it’s a bit hard tbh.

Btw thank you all for answering, sorry if I’m a bit annoying with all this

Many of the international students at my daughter’s top college have national or international level awards.

That’s also very problematic. I’m searching for competitions that are available for people who ended high school but aren’t in college, so maybe i can try to get some awards. But is it even worth the effort at this point?

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You can always apply, that way you may not have regrets

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:cry: :cry: :cry:

You are asking for someone else to pay for one of the best educations in the world. It is not unreasonable for you to put in the work to do this. This works out to about 40 million pesos. Since the US can’t afford to give out a 40 million peso education to anyone who wants it (even its own citizens) does it not make sense to prioritize the people who are willing to put in the work?

While it is true that you won’t get in if you don’t apply, I think you need to assess where you are relative to other applicants:

  • You start at maybe 1-2% probability. That’s the international admit rate for some of the schools on your list. Other schools may have a higher admissions probability, but provide less financial aid, and that won’t help you.
  • A 1490 SAT - assuming you score as well as you think you will, which is not guaranteed - is below the average admitted student at Harvard.
  • “Club starter” is not a strong EC. Multiple clubs won’t help. “I saw a need for such an organization and created it” is one thing. “I needed more EC’s so I started this and this and this and this” is another.
  • A gap year where you obtain some sort of specific experience that you wouldn’t otherwise get is one thing. A gap year because you don’t have you act together to apply is quite another.

All of these move the probabilities downward. The ranking might move it up, but not very much - many ivies boast that nearly half of their students were ranked #1 in their high schools.

If there was some sort of magic that would move acceptance probabilities to something in the tens of percent, then everybody would do it. And before long we would be right where we are now.

What’s wrong with UBA? UCA? La Plata?

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As an aside I recommend that you take the SAT this year while you are still in HS. This exam is meant for HS students so any score you may achieve after HS graduation will not be particularly meaningful.

Agree with others - it is fine to give some top US colleges a try (knowing the odds are against being accepted) but be sure to have a solid backup plan.

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Asks the adult whose username is @MITPhysicsAlum.

OP your chances are slim as mentioned but you appear to run the risk of asking “what if”, if you don’t take a shot. Go for it but prepare alternatives and don’t be disappointed.

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Hmmm…I’m not quite sure the direction of that comment.

I went to MIT not because it was the best school in the world (cough), but it was the best school for me. My second choice wasn’t Harvard or Yale - it was Rice. That would also have been a very good school for me, but in a different way.

I’d like to think had I gone pretty much anywhere I would have turned out OK, although my path through life might have been quite different.

At the risk of CC heresy - maybe even blasphemy - I think the “name” of the college is only weakly correlated to the quality of education. Sure, Stanvard has a lot of smart people graduating, but they also have a lot of smart people entering. If you swapped the Stanvard faculty with the faculty at Pretty Good State, would the outcomes be any different? Of course this is unanswerable, but I suspect the outcomes would be pretty close to each other.

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I agree with others that the top universities in the US are a reach, with acceptance rates for international students being in the low single digit percentages (close to 1%).

I would be more concerned about the fit (you and the university being a good match for each other) and the university offering full financial aid for international students, rather than admissions being need blind. The small handful of universities that both meet full need and that are need blind are all very, very difficult for admissions. At a university that does consider need for international students, being international and needing full financial support will impact your chances of admissions, but that does not necessarily mean that your chances will be any lower than they would be at Harvard or MIT.

Williams College is very good for mathematics and meets full need for international students. It is not need blind. However your chances of being admitted there are probably no worse than MIT or Harvard.

Another thought: I am only aware of one example of a university in Canada meeting full need for international students. That is for a handful of students who get the Lester B. Pearson scholarship at the University of Toronto. Toronto is very good for mathematics (and for computer science, AI, and engineering, all of which might be attractive to math students). To apply for the Lester B. Pearson scholarship you need to be nominated by your high school. It is very competitive, but is a great deal at a very strong (and academically challenging) university for the few students who earn it.

I might note that of the two suggestions that I made, one (Williams College) is quite small and in a rural area in western Massachusetts. The other (Toronto) is quite large and is right in the middle of the largest city in Canada. You might want to think about which one would be a better fit for you.

With regard to extracurricular activities, you should do what is right for you, and do it very well. The point is not to have a long list. The point is to do very well at whatever you do, and to help to improve your community. Your ECs do not need to have anything to do with your high school.

Finally, if you do get to study at any top university at the level that has been discussed in this thread, then attend the welcome reception for international students. You might be amazed at who you might get to meet.

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This site may offer you ideas for colleges to research further:

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Almost everyone attends undergraduate university in their home country. The exceptions who come to the US are either 1) very wealthy and able to afford US costs, even if they get some aid, or 2) exceptionally talented in something the schools seek, such as extraordinary basketball ability or world class physics talent. Absent either of those, most people should not expect to come to the US for undergraduate studies. Graduate school is different.

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I never said i wasnt gonna put in the effort. I have indeed done a lot of investigation, and im planning on doing more. The only thing i said is that i had mistaken false information for true information, which is normal when you don’t have anyone else to help you on the research process. So don’t act like I’m not putting effort, because I’m not getting so close to burnout for no reason.
La Plata is way too far away for me. UCA is pretty expensive if you live here, it’s not accesible. Believe me, i have considered all the options here and my only realistic possibility in this country is UBA. Like i said, I’m already doing the CBC for UBA, and I’ll apply there if this fails. However, for your information, i do have motives to try and get out of here, including personal reasons (i know i won’t be able to mentally to keep my sanity if i live with my parents, and our economy wouldn’t allow me to move out until at least 3 years later), political and economical (in a broader sense, I’m not the only young person trying to get out of Argentina. Everyone who lives here knows it’s a time bomb, and once all the bubbles pop we’ll be in a similar state as that of Venezuela’s) and also with UBA itself. As anyone who studies there can tell you, it’s extremely overrated. It’s actually a mess for almost all careers, only medicine is actually good. Math is acceptable and that’s why i would accept it, but i don’t think it’s bad to aim for something that would nurture my future more.
Your last 2 points about the clubs and the gap year seem to come out of me expressing myself badly, and I’m sorry for that. As everything on this world, this has multiple factors and causes into it. Yes, I’m unable to keep up with school, clubs, the CBC and the admissions and end all of this in half a month, and yes I’m well aware that the clubs are good for my admissions and this has motivated me. But it’s also true that i genuinely want to grow, rest, and understand the stuff i love in a deeper, more meaningful level. And it’s also true that i love (and yes, this is the word for it) my clubs, and all the members on them, and that they completrly reshaped the way i understand education and passion.

Like you said, there are better options out there from an economical POV than all of this. My country has a very strong paternalist state, so if i wanted the “free easy life” that you seem to believe I’m after I’d just live out of the state like some do. So if i were the kind of person you seem to believe I am, would i do all what I’m doing to try and get the best of the best? All what i wanted was to know my situation and my range of possible actions, to decide whether or not I’d keep going with this, and i asked for it very politely and knowing well my limitations. So i think your sarcasm was pretty unneccessary.

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I agree with you in that thetop colleges aren’t inherently better. However, you yourself said why some would want to go there: the people. Like 4 of my peers will study psychology, only one of them i actually believe has passion and future on it. On harvard however, all psychology students are clrealy passionate about it, and will take more effort on it than others. And some of them will then become teachers, and will probably start teaching in other top schools therefore reinforcing the educstion of the school. You won’t see random teachers in MIT, they’re all brilliant at some point. And that necessarily gives you another kind of depth in your knowledge

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OP- you aren’t getting sarcasm. You are getting a reality check. And don’t react when savvy posters try to help you, even if you aren’t getting the answers you want.

Hugs to you for your bad family situation- and my heart goes out to you for the political and economic realities of your life and country.

But there is a sad reality to higher education in the US that very few international students appreciate- you will need to demonstrate how you are paying for FOUR years of college, upfront- before you can get a visa. I know I sound like a broken record on CC, but this is how the immigration system works. So getting in to a college you cannot afford- doesn’t help you. Getting in to a college where you can afford two years but not four years- doesn’t help you. Getting in to a college where you can kinda/sorta afford it but will need to work under the table for cash to pay your living expenses- it COULD help you except it means breaking the law, and nobody wants to get deported because they got an envelope with $500 cash from their waiter job over the weekend.

So posters here are trying to quantify for you how much money it will take to get you to the point where you can get a student visa (a lot) and how unusual it is for that to happen (very unusual). Nobody is being mean or sarcastic- just trying to educate you.

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This is indeed some very useful info. I hadn’t considered that maybe the lost from needing financial aid might be lower than the one from being a top school, i just kind of assumed that for non need blind colleges it was something like “needs aid=not admitted” but worded more kindly haha. So thanks for the info, I’ll search through it once i get some time and I’ll consider those colleges too.

I wish i could pick only based on fit and passion, but sadly I’m forced by the external conditions to consider both economical factors and chance of getting in. If we add the fact that it’s impossible to quantify the effects of good fit in chances of getting in, it’s pretty hard to give fit all the attention it deserves. I’ll try to think more about that though, thanks

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It wasn’t sarcasm? Oh, i genuinely thought it was. I’m bad at detecting sarcasm, so i rationalize it, and when i saw the sad face emojis i thought it was meant as sacrasm and an aggresive attack (i have no problem with negatives, note how others had already told me about my slim chance and i did not react badly). If it wasn’t sarcasm, then I’m sorry @MITPhysicsAlum , this was just a big misunderstanding.

And I’m sorry if i acted rude, it was never my intention. I’m thankful that you give me this info, that’s why i asked for it in the first place (i obviosuly knew my chances were small, just wanted more details on how to make it better or what are my weakest points). So again, sorry and thanks to you all (and special apologizes again to @MITPhysicsAlum if it indeed wasn’t an aggresion)