Do I have any chance at all?

Applying to College
1

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I am a junior (class of 2012) at a very poor high school. My high school has honors classes and a few college credit courses (credit is given through a local CC), but we have no AP courses. I am enrolled in almost all honors classes, and I have been throughout high school.
My current schedule is:
Health (not honors, req'd for juniors)
College Algebra (college credit)
US History
Advanced Chemistry (honestly a useless class - our teacher beyond incompetent)
Spanish III
Computer Graphics (not honors)
English 11
If I didn't mention otherwise, all of these classes are honors.</p>

<p>I have a 4.0 (my high school does not weight GPAs), scored a 227 on the PSAT this year (I think that is above the semifinalist cutoff?), and I scored 2090 on the SAT this year - 740 reading, 720 math, 630 writing. I am well aware that my writing score is atrocious; I did not prepare for the SAT at all (took it for practice) and the essay caught me off guard. I am practicing essays and I plan to retake the SAT this March.</p>

<p>I am white (actually a slight minority at my high school - we are predominately Hispanic) and middle-class. I guess I could claim I am Hispanic as I am 1/4 Hispanic, but I really don't identify as such and I think that is rather dishonest. My class rank is 1st or 2nd. I am set to be valedictorian at the end of next year (along with one other classmate).</p>

<p>Whenever I look at others who wish to attend a top school, I see that almost all have a large number of AP classes, and I have none. Are col cred courses similar to AP? In addition, I attend a truly awful high school. Seriously, we are in the bottom 5% of Oregon high schools, and it's a big deal here if you graduate (I think around 60% end up graduating). So, as you could expect, all of our funding is directed at the lower end of the school (good luck throwing money at it . . .) and the upper students receive nothing. Honestly, I am only challenged(ish) in two of my classes. Also, attending another school or something similar is out of the question, as we are in a very rural area and there is nowhere to go.</p>

<p>Do I have any chances at all? Right now, I want to become a doctor of some sort (perhaps a pediatrician or an ophthalmologist). This choice is far from set in stone. My dream is to attend Brown, Colombia, Amherst, or something similar, but lately I have come to realize that this is looking less and less likely. I just really hope that whoever is looking at my applications will understand that I haven't had all (hardly any, really) of the opportunities that a lot of other students receive. I would hope that they would understand that I live in my state's poorest county and that my high school is among the very worst. It is truly difficult to succeed here because nobody cares about anything and it can be depressing and discouraging :-( Also it is harder for me to apply myself when there is no challenge - I feel like I am wasting my time :-/ I don't feel like I am learning much in most of my classes. It is hard for me to imagine being admitted to one of these schools when there are other students who are so much more qualified.</p>

<p>Is there anything I should seek out to improve my chances? I don't have too many ECs, but I have been on the varsity cross country team for two years, I am a member of my HS's Japanese, NHS, and FBLA organizations, and I help teach Sunday School at my church every week. Should I try to find more volunteer and ECs? If I should, what should I seek out? And should I consider taking courses from my local CC (which is thankfully only a mile away from my house!)? I have already taken an introductory Speech course and I am enrolled for a CPR/first aid class next term (not all that studious, I know, but the classes I wanted to take were only available during school hours. This is just for fun!). Cost is not an issue; my parents have made it clear to me that they will do what they must (short of moving, ha) to ensure I get a good education.</p>

<p>Thanks to anyone who will help me :-) I hope I don't come off as too whiny! I just feel cheated sometimes because I feel like I could have really excelled in a competitive high school or even an average one but I am stuck here with a bunch of kids that aren't going anywhere.</p>

2

<p>Work on 2-3 really good ECs and take as many of those CC classes you can, and just keep your GPA up and do well on your SATs.</p>

3

<p>Hopefully others will contribute some really good information. All I will say is that colleges will consider the condition of your highs chool. They will not throw you out because you have not taken any AP courses; If somewhere in the application (an “additional information” or “special circumstances” section) you make it clear that your HS does not offer any AP courses, they will take it into consideration. However, coming from a school like your does limit you. Being ranked 1 as your school isn’t the same as being even ranked 20 at a really competitive HS. </p>

<p>Also, your 227 guarantees that you will be a National Merit Semi-Finalist (and to become a finalist you just have to submit a little application basically, and almost everyone gets it). I don’t know if you realize it, but that is a really big deal. Don’t get stuck on schools like “Brown, Colombia, Amherst” just because they have big prestigious names. I made the same mistake. They are great schools, but there are plenty of great schools around. There are schools that would kill you have you as a NMF. There are schools that will offer you a full ride just because of that 227. You’re got a bright future ahead of you! Do not limit yourself to the elite colleges. Like I said, I made the same mistake. I still applied to elite schools (princeton, stanford, cornell) but I applied to 8 others that were a step lower- still great schools, far more likely to accept/pay for me.</p>

<p>Lastly, SAT writing- certainly looks better if you can get that up, but keep in mind it is by far the least regarded of the SAT sections. Most colleges really only care about the math/reading. Also, consider taking the ACT. My first SAT was 2070 and my ACT was a 34 (which is equal to like a 2280). Sometimes students do much better on one than the other.</p>

4

<p>Thanks so much for the information :slight_smile: it is very appreciated!</p>

<p>Yeah, I have </p>

<p>I will try and seek out some other schools - you are right, a lot of other colleges are really seeking out students like me. A local LAC’s admissions lady told me I could get a full-ride there (unfortunately I don’t really like this area so I don’t think I’d be too happy there). I am far from set-in-stone on those other choices; it is just that I had always wanted to go somewhere like that when I was young, and, at the time, it always seemed feasible (nobody wanted to crush my dreams haha). I don’t think that those are the only places worth going to or anything! ;-)</p>

<p>Having some help paying for college would, of course, really be nice; my parents have always told me that I can go wherever I want and they will pay for me (and they weren’t just saying that), but I’m not sure how med school figures into that. Could you give me an example of one of these step-lower schools? I’m sure there are loads of them but just so I get the general idea.</p>

<p>And as far as the SAT goes, yeah, I’ll be getting the writing up for sure. I had never done a timed essay prior to the test, and I didn’t time myself well. I ended up with a solid intro paragraph and a short choppy middle and end. I could definitely do better! And, yeah, I may take the ACT, just to see if I can get a better score on that. Thankfully, I don’t dislike taking standardized tests. For the PSAT, I had gathered that I would pretty much be a semifinalist, but then I wasn’t sure how big of a deal that was. I had never heard of the NMS stuff before this year, and my counselors at high school haven’t talked about it or anything :-/</p>

<p>And for ECs, I think I am going to start doing volunteer stuff at my local hospital, because I think that it would both help me figure out what exactly it is I want to do, also.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all of the help!</p>

5

<p>Sr. Armadillo –</p>

<p>There really aren’t any schools for which you are a statistical non-starter. </p>

<p>As to the Hispanic issue, that is both a cultural and genetic question. You are genetically 25% Hispanic, and it sounds like the culture around your home and school is 50%+ hispanic. It’s a judgement call, but you have every legitimate justification to identify your blood and culture as hispanic on the college application.</p>

<p>This is not a trivial issue… most of the schools that would admit you to help fill their “Hispanic Bucket” would likely not accept you in the “average white applicant Bucket”. It’s a HUGE difference in admissions.</p>

6

<p>The Hispanic issue is actually really important. I have no idea how you should classify yourself, but you may wish to call admissions, CommonApp, or ask more around this board about how you should identify. By classifying as Hispanic, you’ll be giving yourself a huge advantage (seriously, HUGE), but you don’t want to be dishonest about it. Like Dunnin said, given the school/area/culture you live in, makes classifying as Hispanic seem more realistic. Still, you should seek more information on that.</p>

<p>Do you know how you classified yourself for the PSAT? There are separate awards based on race. Anyone other than hispanic/black is just a National Merit Scholar; if you classified as Hispanic, you’ll be a National Hispanic Scholar as well, which is a different boat (again, probably a huge advantage in the admission process). Not sure exactly how all that works though, you’d have to look into it, or just wait until next year when you get your awards.</p>

<p>There are so many schools. I’m not real good with rattling off names but I know there are people around here who can. You might want to try posting your stats/situation and asking for college suggestions in the “College search and selection” board. Make sure you mention that you are interested in Med school.</p>

7

<p>There are many threads on this board about the Race or Ethnicity issue in college applications. It gets complicated. Bottom line is you are who YOU say you are, not what anybody else says you are. This is NOT a genetics question, it is a cultural identification question above all else. And who can define your culture for you other than you?</p>

<p>If you want to get genetic about it, 100% of the people on earth today are descended from a small band of Africans only 30,000 years ago. Mitochondrial DNA analysis shows this pretty clearly now. So what is each of our races? Depends on the timeline. Originally, we’re all Africans. Then 15,000 or so years later, you could say there are now enough genetic adaptations to say some are no longer African, but more European, or more Asian, etc.</p>

8

<p>Take CC courses if you can. Maybe at school take a free period and ride your bike or drive to the CC (idk maybe your GC can give you tips).
AP tests cost like 80 bucks to take. CC courses cost like 100 bucks to take. So even though it sucks to have to pay for college courses that SHOULD be given to you free of charge in the form of AP, it’s not that much more expensive. Good luck man.</p>

9

<p>You’re in the right track. I really think you should try the following:</p>

<p>I understand that you really want to get into an elite school. But you want to make sure that you cast your net wide. You really also want to look at the schools that really specifically train for pre-med. The schools like John Hopkins, WUSTL, Or even University of Texas Dallas (more about this later). I suggest you determine how many you want to apply to. Based on that have wide range of rankings to apply to. Say select one or two from top, but three or four from the middle and two from the bottom of the ranking list. </p>

<p>You are going to be a national merit scholar. This is a big thing! Make sure you understand the process. Make sure that there are schools that give you almost free ride for this. Check out this forum on this topic for more information. Some of these colleges include University of Idaho, Texas A&M, University of Oklahoma, UT Dallas, Alabama etc. They are very good and will help you get where you need to get! I.e., get you into a medical school!</p>

<p>Make sure you improve your SAT score a bit. Make sure that you take SAT11s in Bio, Chem.</p>

<p>Try to go to local community college this summer and take college credit during summer etc. Take intro to Chem, Bio, may be math. </p>

<p>Get involved in some decent ECs. May be become a president of the clubs that you really care about…</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

10

<p>Thanks so much for all of the replies! It is so nice to have someone(s) help me with this :-)</p>

<p>Hmmm, I didn’t really think the Hispanic thing would affect my admissions too much - I guess it is because my town/city has (about) a 50% Hispanic and 50% white population, so I guess I don’t think of that as a minority. Well, I’m going to have to think about this one. I mean, yeah, I have a grandma who is 100% Hispanic. But it’s not like my home is very Hispanic at all - we are pretty “plain”. But then again I have friends who are 25% minority and have lifestyles similar to mine and identify as a minority, and it doesn’t seem odd. If someone was, for example, 25% Japanese, I wouldn’t hesitate to identify them as Japanese even though they are “mostly white”. So yeah, I guess I’ll have to talk to someone from admissions and my parents and decide for myself. Thanks for the info about that! Oh, and for the PSAT, I think I put white - not sure though. </p>

<p>About taking more CC classes - well, I would really like to, but I’m not sure how far to go. What I mean is that I really want to take at least one “real” course next year (I want to take something over the summer, too). Right now, I’m thinking about taking a 200-level Chemistry or Biology class in the fall. I think I will take the chem class because I have a good friend who is taking that class and could help me if (when!) I need it. However, those classes are offered (things change, but for the last two years) from 12:00 to 2:00 with a lab that goes till 5:00. This means that I would have to cut out three of my seven classes at my high school. </p>

<p>For next year, I’d be left with English (which I will get col cred for, even though our teacher is beyooonnd useless), Calculus, Spanish IIII, and Government (which is a semester class). Will this look bad? Will it look like I am not taking enough at my HS? Would they understand that I only had four HS classes because I had to fit a CC class into my schedule? I do know that a friend of mine (actually the previously-mentioned friend’s brother) got into UC Berkeley with a schedule like that. And as far as the price goes. . . well, as it happens, I get free tuition there because my mother works there :slight_smile: But even if I didn’t I would still not hesitate to take classes there, if I had to. And hopefully I can take something over the summer - the only concern there is that I would be gone on vacation with my family.</p>

<p>Should I take the Spanish SAT test, also? My Spanish is faaaaar from perfect but I have been taking it for a few years now and I think I might be able to score well on that. I tried the practice test and it didn’t seem too hard. Does anyone know about how difficult it is?</p>

<p>And I will definitely look into those colleges and ones like it. I really would like to find a college that is somewhere I like, will offer me a good scholarship, and will get me into a med school (but wouldn’t everybody haha!). Thanks again everyone!</p>

11

<p>The Spanish SAT Subject test is mostly taken by native speakers. So unless youa re fluent, you wont score 700 or higher. I’m in AP Spanish Language and I wouldnt touch that test.</p>

12

<p>Don’t be worried or feel bad about claiming that you are Hispanic. You are what you are!</p>

<p>I’m 1/4 Mexican. My grandfather from Juarez, Mexico is mestizo (mix of Spanish and Native Mexican), so he was pretty white. I, myself, am white, but Mexicans tell me that I look Spanish because of my features. It’s kind of funny because when I tell people that I am Mexican they automatically think I am joking them and question why I am white! </p>

<p>But seriously… Don’t cross out your Hispanic heritage or ever regret claiming it! You are Hispanic. Oh and you can get some nice Hispanic scholarships! ; o) </p>

<p>BTW, Spain is a predominately white country and it is FULLY considered Hispanic and Latino.</p>

13

<p>Thanks, IThinkICan, your situation is a lot like mine. My grandmother was also more on the Spanish side, so I also have more Spanish (ie white) features. I also have the same problem about telling people, especially because there are so many darker Hispanics in my area and I feel like I would appear to be. . . yeah, joking or something. Thanks for the advice :-)</p>

<p>And for the Spanish SAT test. . . I guess I won’t count on scoring high on that. Thanks for the heads up!</p>

14

<p>In your case, I’d recommend checking the Hispanic box. If for some reason the cut-off in your state is so high that you miss NM Finalist, you will still absolutely qualify for National Hispanic honors. This will get you on a whole other bunch of mailing and email lists. </p>

<p>Your scores and grades are very good. Read through <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; to see if you find anything you like.</p>

<p>Medical school is even more ridiculously expensive than private undergraduate universities. If you are committed to a medical degree, you need to find ways to keep your undergraduate degree as cheap as possible. Then your family may be able to help you pay for med school.</p>

<p>Lots of parents tell their kids that the price of college doesn’t matter. Then they run the FAFSA in the kids senior year of HS, and find out how much the colleges expect them to be able to pay, and they realize that there is no easy way to scrape that kind of money together. Do your parents a favor, and print out <a href=“http://www.ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/101310EFCFormulaGuide1112.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/101310EFCFormulaGuide1112.pdf&lt;/a&gt; Ask them to work through it, so that they know what their FAFSA EFC is likely to be. Then talk with them about how your family will come up with that kind of money. Maybe they do have a giant college fund stashed away for you somewhere and it will be no problem. But maybe they don’t. It’s better to know now than in April of 2012.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>

15

<p>Oh and on the Hispanic issue: Happydad was born in Cuba (four northern Spanish grandparents), and Happykid was born in Venezuela. I’m the only gringa raza pura in the house, and they both are paler than me despite my Swedish, English, and German ancestry. Go figure.</p>

16

<p>Happymom,</p>

<p>My mother actually has worked in financial aid at a local CC (yes, I realize that CCs are way cheaper than private schools - I just mean that she has experience in that particular field) for almost ten years now, so we are aware of the costs of college, how federal and state aid works, and how much we are expected to pay :wink: But thanks for the heads-up; I’ve heard my mom tell stories about people who have never thought paying for education would be an issue . . . yikes.</p>

<p>But yes, you are right, attending med school is insanely expensive and so really saving some money now would definitely be nice (duh haha) :slight_smile: Definitely another thing I will factor into my decision. I’ll take a look through that list and see if there is anything that sounds like a good fit for me. Thank you for your time!</p>

17

<p>I just wanted to know if their is any advantages or disadvantages to applying a few months early to selective universities like Chapel Hill, Clemson, and NC State? Im currently enrolled in a community college for the spring 11 semester so my classes wont be over until May. Im retaking the SAT January 22. My gpa is 2.8 and it will be a 3.0 or better when the semester is done. So should I wait unitl the semester is over to send everything in or should i send the applications in NOW with my current scores and later send them the updated scores?</p>

<p>PLEASE I NEED HELP!!</p>

<p>thanks</p>

18

<p>legalarmadillo,</p>

<p>You are truly lucky to have a mom who is on top of the financial issues! The single best presentation I’ve ever heard on financial aid was done by the fin. aid officer at our local CC. It was much more informative, and truly fact-filled, than the others I’ve attended. </p>

<p>All the best to you and your family as you work through this process!</p>

19

<p>you definitely have chances; colleges are responsible for knowing a bit about your high school, so they’ll understand your situation. they’re just looking to make sure that you took advantage of all the opportunities that you had, so do as much as you can to challenge yourself academically (if you can afford it, consider an online class?) and involve yourself in your community, and don’t worry about what you don’t have access to.</p>