<p>I am a 2013 college prep scholarship recipient and interested in match program.</p>
<p>Anyone??.???.</p>
<p>1) I could be a finalist and rank schools…but the only colleges I really wanna go are Yale or Princeton…(not that other schools are bad…but I’ve never been to any of them…)</p>
<p>PLEASE READ THIS LETTER
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/questbridge-programs/1537703-letter-your-fellow-quest-scholar-about-prestige.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/questbridge-programs/1537703-letter-your-fellow-quest-scholar-about-prestige.html</a></p>
<p>Yes , I have read the post earlier, but I plan to major in science /engineering, so I prefer larger schools to liberal arts college. I am not saying that liberal arts college is bad… I have visited a couple and did not like it too much. I have visited both Yale and Princeton and they are literally my dream school. Yes you might say it is just a mere dream, but,…
I know I will regret if I get matched to 2nd or 3rd school… I should probably not rank colleges…</p>
<p>I feel like you are telling everyone to consider LAC, but LAC is not for everyone… It may increase their chance of getting matched, but not everyone likes that kind of atmosphere. Please don’t take this personally…I have read many of your posts and that’s what i have noticed.</p>
<p>BTW, I said Yale and Princeton, since those are a few of schools that consider international applicants. I am also considering Brown, UChicago, etc. Please know that the option is crazily limited for internationals and sometimes, I feel hopeless. All the schools that consider internationals are highly competitive, so you should consider lower-tier schools. But those schools do not support internationals!?</p>
<p>Sorry If I got emotional… Very frustrating process indeed.</p>
<p>Okay, first of all, so many misconceptions that I don’t even to know where to begin. My point was not just to look into LACs but other universities as well. Yes, besides Yale and Princeton there are other fantastic universities too like U’Chicago, Northwestern, Rice, and Tufts.</p>
<p>“I plan to major in science /engineering, so I prefer larger schools to liberal arts college.”</p>
<p>This is ridiculous reasoning. You clearly do not know what a liberal arts college is. Go and do your research. </p>
<p>“I am not saying that liberal arts college is bad… I have visited a couple and did not like it too much.”</p>
<p>Not all liberal art colleges are built alike. Some are rural, some are suburban, some are urban. Some have financial aid and endowments better than the Ivy’s per capita. They are located all around the country. They offer all sorts of programs. ALL HAVE SCIENCES. By focusing on a few schools (and I doubt you even visited any), you have created a picture for all schools of a category that is simply incorrect. Try doing that with universities and see where that takes you.</p>
<p>“Yes you might say it is just a mere dream, but,…”
Yes, they are mere dreams, and if you want to get into a school you should open up your options. You clearly have not done enough research, and if you continue to have these unrealistic expectations you’ll most likely see disappointment in the process.</p>
<p>“I know I will regret if I get matched to 2nd or 3rd school… I should probably not rank colleges…”
What a selfish argument. Because a full ride to any top school in the country is so bad. Consider your perspective among the thousands of applicants in the process.</p>
<p>“I feel like you are telling everyone to consider LAC, but LAC is not for everyone…”
CONSIDER LACS. Not you must apply to them. Consider them. Most don’t, because they have no idea what an LAC is. You don’t. That’s why I advertise them.</p>
<p>“not everyone likes that kind of atmosphere.”
LACs do not all have the same atmosphere.</p>
<p>" I am also considering Brown, UChicago, etc. Please know that the option is crazily limited for internationals and sometimes, I feel hopeless."
I understand that but these are HUGE reaches! The only schools which consider internationals for QuestBridge are Brown, Carleton, Grinnell, Pomona, Princeton, Swarthmore, University of Chicago, Washington & Lee, and Yale. The LACs on that list are so different from one another (like Pomona and W&L are complete opposites of one another). Don’t apply to them unless you’re sure they’re right for you. But if you want to make the most of QuestBridge, apply to as many schools that you can possibly like if you can.</p>
<p>Also it is important to realize that many of the universities you are focusing on (Yale, Brown, U’Chicago) all utilize the liberal arts model of learning and residential life. So if you don’t feel liberal arts are right for you, you shouldn’t be ranking those schools.</p>
<p>Don’t believe me?
[A</a> Liberal Arts Education | Yale College Admissions](<a href=“http://admissions.yale.edu/liberal-arts-education]A”>A Liberal Arts Education | Yale College Undergraduate Admissions)
<a href=“https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/academics/[/url]”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/academics/</a>
[The</a> Brown Curriculum](<a href=“http://brown.edu/Administration/Dean_of_the_College/curriculum/]The”>Explore the Open Curriculum | The College | Brown University)</p>
<p>Okay. It is a well-known fact that many ,not all , liberal arts college is behind when it comes to science or engineering. I do know Liberal Arts College, even my closest cousin attends Amherst… Yes and I do know that all liberal arts college have different atmosphere, but I was talking about the atmosphere of big vs. small. It is a known fact that most LAC has small student population compared to schools like Cornell, Yale, etc. I meant that I like schools with bigger student population and large lectures instead of small group of class, discussions, etc.
I recently talked with a graduate of Williams and he liked some parts of it and didn’t like other parts. I am very well aware of LAC and its programs… I just worded it in a weird way.
Yes. My dreams are just mere dreams… It is unrealistic and silly, but it is not wrong to have a hope. I have many personal stories that you do not know and I plan to apply to many back-up schools that I like. </p>
<p>Pomona is a great school, I know. But please don’t criticize me just because of the fact that you attend a prestigious school and you know more than me about the process. I DO know what I want and what I am talking about. I appreciate your comments, but not a rude nuance…</p>
<p>Sorry if I was being rude but really, you did not have to be that harsh to teach someone a point. I said those schools are my “dream schools” that fits me…</p>
<p>I do know that Yale, brown,Princeton, many other schools have basis on liberal arts education. However, I still believe there is a difference between a schools with a system that entirely focus on liberal arts education and with those with a basis on the liberal arts education.</p>
<p>I’m very sorry for coming across so harshly. Please, however, stop trying to bring Pomona into this. While I do go to Pomona, I don’t advertise LACs only because of it. If you look at any of my posts regarding LACs on this board, I tell students to consider all of them, not just Pomona. My list had 6 LACs on it. And I’m a scientific researcher/PhD prospective, so there is a reason I considered all of those schools.</p>
<p>Let me clarify your misconceptions with some objective points. </p>
<p>It is not true that liberal art colleges are “behind” in science, as you say. Engineering, sure, but engineering is not a liberal arts subject. Plus, you’re considering Yale, whose engineering is bad compared to state schools, and U’Chicago, which doesn’t even offer engineering. Some LACs do offer engineering- Swarthmore and Washington and Lee, for example. Let us focus on science directly. I think you are getting your misconceptions from graduate rankings, which most liberal art colleges do not offer and thus would not rank in.</p>
<p>By far the most important marker of a science education is PhD production. The world of science is one of discovery. PhDs in part assure that new knowledge is discovered. When PhDs are produced, it shows that students from that school received a depth of academic learning that has them prepared to search for new questions and answers.</p>
<p>According to [Top</a> 50 Schools That Produce Science PhDs - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37242954/top-50-schools-that-produce-science-phds/]Top”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37242954/top-50-schools-that-produce-science-phds/), 28 of the top 50 science producing PhDs were all liberal art colleges. Carleton, Swarthmore, and Reed all produce more PhDs per capita than any of the Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>According to <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1270318-lacs-most-science-majors.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1270318-lacs-most-science-majors.html</a>, several liberal art colleges have a substantial number of science majors. According to the Yale Profile, 23% of students majored in a physical or natural science, math, or computer science. So you see that these numbers are not very different. </p>
<p>According to [College</a> Rankings 2011: Brainiacs - Newsweek and The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/features/college-rankings/2011/brainiacs.all.html]College”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/features/college-rankings/2011/brainiacs.all.html), which measures schools do in production of graduate fellowships and awards, the liberal art colleges do very well. There are many science fellowships and awards: Goldwaters, Fulbrights (in certain cases), Watsons (independent study in science), Nobel Laureates (Swarthmore and Haverford in particular do very well), Gates Cambridge (for studies in science).</p>
<p>Next- for the educational experience as a whole:</p>
<p>First, there is no benefit from attending a large lecture hall compared to a small lecture hall. Sure, you receive the same education. But with smaller lecture halls, it is easy to build a strong rapport with your professors. Easier to access their office hours and to have them write personal, deep recommendations. Easier to converse with them in general and hear from their experience so that you can decide what you want to do with a science major.</p>
<p>Second- there is a difference. At a liberal arts college, you are only taught by professors. These aren’t just some regular old professors, these are some of the best minds in the country on that subject. Haverford faculty hail from Stanford, Yale, and University of Cambridge Ph.D. programs. You will also find an overrepresentation of teachers coming from liberal art colleges at the top universities. And unlike teachers at universities, who have a focus on doing research, the teachers at liberal art colleges come to teach and prepare undergraduates. The atmosphere is more nurturing, individual, and one of growth. Individual attention is important. Unlike some universities, labs are small at a liberal arts college and you are given individual attention by only professors. </p>
<p>At universities, often times you might be taught by a TA. At most LACs, TAs don’t exist- only professors teach classes. And for those Nobel laureates that are only found in universities? Most of them are too busy to teach undergraduate classes, and their research labs are usually only open to graduates. </p>
<p>Third- Some liberal art science facilities are extremely impressive, even more than universities. When I visited Swarthmore College in the fall, I was shocked by how clean, well-maintained, and high tech the science facilities were. U’Penn was also nearby, and when I visited it, I wasn’t nearly as impressed. The reason liberal art colleges often have better facilities is because they have huge amounts of money, and it all goes towards the experience of the undergraduates. If you want a list, just look at the Princeton Review’s best science facilities rankings. The only university making the list is CalTech. </p>
<p>Fourth- Research. Research is a must for applying to PhDs, so if liberal art colleges do so well on them, they must clearly be doing something right. The top liberal art colleges have a huge emphasis on research. Williams spends the most on research money per undergraduate student. Pomona and Harvey Mudd have huge paid summer research programs, sponsoring anywhere from 15-25% of their student body to do research over the summer. Just about every liberal arts college requires that its faculty do research during the school year, so it’s easy to find a professor to work with, even as a first year. Especially with no graduate students. </p>
<p>The university experience is different. While it is true that you might find more projects of interest and more cutting edge facilities, most of these are limited to graduate students. Unlike a top liberal arts college, where research positions are openly advertised and just given directly to students, you have to work much harder to find research at a university. </p>
<p>Fifth- The atmosphere as a whole. At a liberal arts college, collaborativeness is the way to go. The students never compete in grades, there are no curves, and the rigor of the work emphasizes teamwork. Big state universities are known for being cutthroat, particularly in the sciences. While most of the top universities are not cutthroat, they can have harsh curves, or the students may be more reserved and independent.</p>
<p>Sixth- Academic opportunity as a whole. You mention that liberal art colleges are too small to offer substantial classes. It is not always true, however. A big thing to realize is that many of these liberal art colleges are in consortiums, and they come together to provide the educational experience of a university with the intimacy of a liberal arts college. Three big ones among some of the QuestBridge schools are:</p>
<p>Claremont Consortium- Pomona, Scripps, Harvey Mudd, Pitzer, Scripps
5 liberal art colleges, 2500 classes available, including 140 unique math classes and over 450 science classes</p>
<p>5 College Consortium- Amherst, Mt. Holyoke, Smith, Hamilton, UMass Amherst
4 liberal art colleges and 1 state university, 6000 classes available</p>
<p>Tri College Consortium- Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, U’Penn
3 liberal art colleges and 1 private university, 1800 classes available</p>
<p>By contrast, Yale offers about 2000 classes each year.</p>
<p>Your other points:</p>
<p>“I meant that I like schools with bigger student population and large lectures instead of small group of class, discussions, etc.”</p>
<p>Yale, Princeton, Brown, and U’Chicago all have small classes and discussions in general, except for a few intro classes. So I’m not sure what your point is.</p>
<p>About the atmosphere of big vs. small, it really depends on where you go. Williams is as rural as they come, located on the Berkshire mountains. Schools like Pomona feel bigger because they are in college consortiums that are directly adjacent to one another, and they are located in huge cities (Pomona is in the greater LA metropolitan area).</p>
<p>It’s perfectly fine to have hope 
I don’t want to destroy any of your dreams, and if I came across that way, I apologize. I just want you to be a bit more realistic in your approach to schools, because to be attached to any school is a dangerous thing. Princeton and Yale take only 1% of students through Match. And acceptance rate wise, less than 10%. Brown and U’Chicago have acceptance rates of less than 10%. More likely than not you will be rejected [and this is not a personal opinion, this is true for every applicant], and I just want you to prepare for alternatives in that outcome, you know?</p>
<p>Considering some of the liberal art colleges is one thing you can do. If you are sure that none of them (there are 15) can offer you what you want, then it’s wrong to rank them. You will have regrets. I only want you to rank schools that you have truly researched and like. But there are some realistic reasons to consider them. I’ve already outlined why they’re good for the sciences. As I said before, 5 of the 9 QuestBridge partner schools which consider international students are liberal art colleges. They are worth an investigation because they are one of the few schools that will in fact consider you. </p>
<p>I know of the 6 schools that are need blind to internationals. Pomona is also need blind (and one of the few schools that has a no loan policy) to anyone who went to a US high school, so you should add that to that list. Many no-loan schools that are need aware to foreign students, like Swarthmore, Haverford, and Columbia, meet the full need of all students, so they are worth a consideration for a financially viable option to a low income international student.</p>
<p>If you are certain that liberal art colleges are not for you (and that is perfectly fine), here is what I would recommend.
Either-
- Do SCEA to Princeton or Yale, and do the QuestBridge app but don’t rank any schools.
- If you don’t get SCEA, use the QuestBridge app to forward your application for free to whatever schools you want. Besides the universities you have listed, I also recommend checking out Columbia, Dartmouth, Emory, USC, Rice, Tufts, Northwestern, MIT, and Caltech. Apply to these schools through RD and hope for the best.
Or- - Rank Yale, Princeton, and U’Chicago for QuestBridge in whatever you order you want.
- If you aren’t matched, U’Chicago will give you an automatic EA decision.
- Step 2 from above.</p>
<p>Thank you for your detailed reply!
I was just curious. You said check out these colleges: “Columbia, Dartmouth, Emory, USC, Rice, Tufts, Northwestern, MIT, and Caltech” For financial aid reason? or strong science program??</p>
<p>They’re universities with a strong science program</p>