And state money- also significant strings. Many states have “last dollar” scholarship programs, and families complain bitterly. But the programs are designed to fill the gap AFTER Pell, the college’s own financial aid (whether merit or need based) and if you’ve already maxed out on aid, even if you technically “qualify” based on your income, you aren’t getting more money. The citizens of your state aren’t interested in over-funding a student so he or she can live in a fancy dorm-- the purpose of the funds is to close the gap.
But every year we have people on CC complaining that the U wouldn’t let their kid “stack” the awards- even once it becomes clear that the kid is over-funded. (Kid thought they could put the extra money in the bank to help with their “I’m buying a car once I graduate” fund).
I’m curious though - would there be Pell eligible applicants that wouldn’t ask for need based aid when applying? (i.e. haven’t already have filed FAFSA/CSS).
You are clearly the FA subject matter expert, so I’m not challenging what you’re saying - I’m genuinely curious to understand this scenario.
I’ve used a lot of NPCs and the myIntuition feature that colleges added recently. I wouldn’t call it clear. It’s more like a rough approximation that varies by institution, year, and even month within the year. Which is fine for some of us, but not everyone can live with this type of uncertainty without feeling alienated by it. That’s where the frustration comes from.
I have only heard of one parent I know tempted to use greedy tactics and she ended up not using them. The vast majority of the parents I know just want to pay an amount that won’t cause them to delay retirement until 75.
If your kid doesn’t want to serve in the military, then clearly the “free” education at West Point is a string that doesn’t work for you. But the entire system falls apart if we don’t expect compliance (i.e. “strings”), right?
Some people want government interventions in college admissions and scholarship / financial aid policy to make such more favorable for themselves or their kids. I.e. different “strings” from what currently exists.
If you go to myriad schools, you don’t need NPCs. They’re as simple as do this, get that. You Murray states, Alabama, Arizona, Truman State and many more. They have tables. You find your place on the table.
A WVU, Ms State, Bradley, Hofstra and more will dial you the exact merit award on their NPC.
But this is merit only. Not for need.
Now some like Miami Ohio or U of SC give a range and they hit the ranges but that’s not an exact.
But once again you’re trying to institutionalize a personal sense of “fairness” and or suggesting that a universal standard is achievable.
How do you “normalize” for parents that started saving for their kids early, worked 2 jobs or lived thriftily. What about the parent that pursued a higher income profession at the expense of career of passion. Different people define what it takes to retire differently. There are millions of scenarios that imply the uniqueness of what is “fair”.
The NPCs are undeniably idiosyncratic and attempt to use a blunt instrument to what often requires delicacy but please don’t suggest a simple benchmark of “an amount that won’t cause them to delay retirement until 75” as any sort of real measure. It is hyperbolic, not in practice “fair” and meaningless in real terms.
You missed the post I made above where I said that by definition, from the parent/student and institution sides, the process isn’t fair. It’s not. No one is claiming it is, least of all me.
I would just not use myintuition at all…I agree the ranges are too great to be helpful.
Also note that NPCs aren’t updated yet for upcoming FAFSA changes (may or may not impact you) nor 2024/25 COA (so make sure to increase 2023/24 COA by 5% (or whatever you want).
ETA. Don’t hesitate to reach out to admissions and tell them COA will play an important role in where your kid goes to college and that anything they can share to help understand the range of merit your kid might get is helpful. Some schools will also do financial aid pre-reads, it doesn’t hurt to ask.
No I caught that and agree no system as diverse and complex as FA is “fair”. I then read your subsequent post where you implied a benchmark for fairness shared by all was attainable and suggested the following benchmark…
I was responding that what you view as fair or what you want is uniquely your version of what is fair and what you deserve. I was highlighting that that circumstances surrounding an arbitrary date of retirement as suggested by you varies by individual so fairness is both elusive in concept and practice.
I think we might be getting pretty far afield when discussions of ‘fairness’ or the lack thereof starts to become front and center, at least in this discussion.
The question is about whether parents have a good understanding re: college processes and procedures in regards to merit aid - not whether they are fair. I think it was someone on CC who once said, “Fair is where livestock is judged” and that has stayed with me.
Edited to Add my favorite P.J. O’Rourke quote:
"I have a 10 year old at home, and she is always saying, ‘That’s not fair.’ When she says that, I say, “Honey, you’re cute; that’s not fair. Your family is pretty well off; that’s not fair. You were born in America; that’s not fair. Honey, you had better pray to God that things don’t start getting fair for you.”
Just want to point out that although we can all quibble about how different systems are administered, and wish they were more generous to our own kids-- it’s a strawman’s argument somehow to suggest that because of how merit aid is doled out, somebody’s kid couldn’t go to college and is now serving coffee at Waffle House instead of performing neurosurgery.
I get that not everyone can afford CMU or U Chicago or JHU or any of the hundreds of fine institutions of higher learning in the US. But even among my most kvetchy, disgruntled friends-- there is general agreement that although it’s disappointing that your kid turned down "dream college " (oh, how I hate that term), at the end of the day, the kid got a FINE and sometimes SUPERB and often INCREDIBLE education at (fill in the blank with the affordable, lower cost, much maligned college) where they graduated from.
And if you’ve raised such a snowflake that learning that CMU’s costs are beyond the family’s budget, the kid decides “nope, no higher ed for me” than you’ve got a bigger problem than needing to educate yourself about how merit aid works.
Let me offer a source of “merit” aid that is in plain sight at competitive places. Take Princeton as an example. You could apply for advanced standing, finish in 3 years, and join for the 4th year as a Master’s student with usually zero tuition. You still need to pay R&B. And often if you are at the pace you would be if you are talented, you can finish the masters in a year. Then you got 1 out of the 4 years of education free at a school that doesn’t hand out merit aid.
Boy, oh boy, are there strings attached to schools participating in federal financial aid. That’s why Hillsdale refuses to participate. I expect that they, too, have parents who claim that the system they use to award aid isn’t fair. Because absolutely no system can ever be fair to everyone. That’s a fact, because fairness is not a scientific, provable thing … it’s a feeling each of us has, and we all feel differently about what constitutes fair (both for ourselves and for others - and the two are not always the same).
When I started in financial aid, I got hung up on how certain rules & regulations didn’t make sense to me. My wise and wonderful mentor told me to just learn the rules and apply them. Whether or not I thought that they made sense was completely irrelevant. She was very wise. In the long run, I began to understand the bigger picture & why some things were as they were.
For parents of aspiring college students, it can certainly feel like things should be different. Transparency would be great, but the system is complex, so there’s often not a way to be as transparent as people want. Heck, I had students expecting me to tell them why Susie got a scholarship and they didn’t … sorry, but not everything is easily quantified. When there are two great applicants and one award, someone great is going to be left out of the money. I haven’t said it in awhile, so here goes: There is no financial aid tree growing outside the financial aid office. There is a finite amount of money to go around.