<p>When I looked at the numbers a year or so ago, there didnt seem to be a decrease in instate enrollment. It seemed stagnate, not decreasing. </p>
<p>If those numbers are true, I want to know why. I know that in recent years, kids from my kids high school with good, but not top stats, are finding that they have a lower net cost if they go to MSU. </p>
<p>I think we need to look at acceptance numbers for instate students who applied by Feb 1.</p>
<p>I think one thing that has hurt is PACT. That pre-paid was supposed to fully cover tuition, but now it is covering less. Some accepted instate students may be opting to commute to a local AL public. </p>
<p>@LucieTheLakie - The Common Data Set lists the number of all first time freshmen in space C1, and then in F1 in gives the percentage that are OOS. So you have to do the multiplication of those numbers from those different years to get to the actual body count. For the 2013-14 CDS, the final number in C1 is 6454 and only 41%(!!) are residents so you get 2,646 freshmen as Alabamians (?) last year.</p>
<p>2012-13 CDS: 6371 x 46.1% = 2,937 residents.</p>
<p>2011-12 CDS: 5728 x 50.4% = 2,887.</p>
<p>2010-11 CDS: 5519 x 57.2% = 3,157</p>
<p>2009-10 CDS: 5116 x 61.6% = 3,151</p>
<p>And that’s enough for me. So a fairly significant increase in enrollment, and all due to OOS recruitment and then some. One rarely sees numbers shift that rapidly in an institution this large. The CDS also shows that retention of those OOS students is significantly less than for residents, which is no surprise. But clearly the most dramatic number is the steep shift in the makeup of the freshman classes, completely reversing from about 60% residents to about 60% OOS. Again, that doesn’t represent a 33% decrease in residents attending, it represents all of the increase in enrollment coming from OOS plus a 16% decline in residents enrolling from 2009-10 to now. Whatever else you all read into that data I leave to you.</p>
<p>Hey, thanks @fallenchemist1 for digging up the numbers and doing all those calculations. I’m hoping to take a closer look at the figures in the CDS when I get to my computer later this morning. </p>
<p>I’m not surprised about the dramatic increase in the total number of students or the increase in the proportion of OOS students, as this has been widely reported by UA and was part of the long-range plan as I understand it.</p>
<p>I understand it being part of the plan. It is just stunning at how quickly it shifted. I know UA is on record that no Alabama resident was denied to make space for an OOS student and I take them at their word. So it must be more due to factors mentioned by M2CK or similar reasons.</p>
<p>Of course someone should double check my numbers. It seemed simple enough, but it always possible I picked up a wrong line or hit the wrong key.</p>
<p>I’d be very surprised is many people specifically have issues with OOS students … for most I’d guess the large OOS presence at Bama is probably a benny. I can imagine a few folks having an issue with some of the bennies the honor college students get … but that would be all honor college students both in-state and out-of-state.</p>
<p>I would think the group that might have a gripe is not present on campus … in-state students who could not afford to go because of lack of financial aid … these folks might not be happy with the strategic choice to favor merit aid over financial aid. That said, any school that provides merit aid has this same dynamic … and any state school which provides merit aid to OOS students (lots of flagships … most?) have the exact same dynamic.</p>
<p>Agreed @3togo. I think the issue here is that Bama has been so vocal about it, that they actually made it a strategy to go after OOS students and to give big merit $$ to do it. I am not giving my opinion on this, just saying that is what seems to have happened. Therefore as a state school, it can raise questions of priorities as you bring up, supported by M2CK’s observations, or maybe speculations would be a better word.</p>
<p>As an out-of-state parent of an incoming freshman, one of the things I really like about UA is that they’re very transparent, and make it very easy, to apply for stats-based merit money for both in-state and out-of-state students. There are no games played–if you meet the criteria, you are in, and qualify for a range of generous merit packages. </p>
<p>The requirements for Alabama students are actually lower than for out-of-state students, so they’re trying to accommodate and make it easier for in-state students to earn the awards. Here, for example, are the requirements to receive the highly-touted-on-CC Presidential Scholarship (full tuition for four years) for IS students:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Out-of-state students have a higher bar to clear:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Although the total “value” is obviously much higher for OOS students, because OOS students are charged more to attend, all Presidential Scholars receive the same education and benefits.</p>
<p>When I contrast this process with how my very popular in-state flagship, Penn State, handles merit money, it’s like night and day. First of all, PSU offers VERY LITTLE merit money to the vast majority of students, including their very elite Schreyer Honors College members, who receive something like $5,000 a year. Beyond that, PSU disburses other merit money in the most opaque, seemingly arbitrary manner imaginable. That’s their prerogative, but it breeds a fair amount of ill will as high-stats COMMITTED (ENROLLED) students are passed over for merit dollars, which appear instead to be targeted to lure OOS students with lower stats and/or families, both IS and OOS, in much higher income brackets. Often these scholarships are awarded to admitted students who have yet to enroll. </p>
<p>It’s one thing to give merit money to everyone qualified, as Alabama does, and it’s quite another to target certain full-pay or high-pay students with just enough merit money to seal the deal. </p>
<p>To each his own, but for my family, our reaction was “Roll Tide!” ;-)</p>
<p>@Voiceofreason66 - Thanks for that link. So that checks pretty well against my calculations from the CDS, although I don’t quite get why 2012 would be more off than the others. But certainly matches pretty well and doesn’t change the discussion.</p>
<p>@Chardo - Thanks! I love it. They changed from that being the official logo to a new one back in the 90’s I think it was =(( , but this one lives on still, even on new merchandise. The students used to call the poor guy/gal that had to dress up in that Wave at games “Gumby”. But as far as Crimson Tide vs. Green Wave in almost any sport, and especially football, frankly I couldn’t bear to watch. That would be ugly. Otherwise I will match Tulane up against Bama, both have excellent academics. Bama honors vs. Tulane would be especially interesting. Heads up match I would think. If S2 has any questions about Tulane, have him PM me.</p>
<p>I think once a school gets to the point of having more competitive admittance, then it can more easily be generous with FA. Because the FA essentially has a merit component (like the UCs, UMich, UVA, UNC and so forth…because the truth is…those schools arent admitting a bunch of kids with modest stats). </p>
<p>When a school has an easy admissions policy, handing out tens of thousands in FA for an ACT 23 to attend wont let the school reach its goals. </p>
<p>I would be shocked if it were not rising steadily. I am sure you all have discussed this before, but do they publish the stats of those in Honors?</p>
<p>There are a number of reasons why in-state freshman enrollment decreased, many of which have nothing to do with UA.</p>
<p>I have heard comments about how UA could afford to provide more financial aid to low income students. The issue which arises is how private funds can be best used to produce the result(s) desired by UA and the donors. The State of Alabama does not currently have a program in place where the state has enough revenue to fund student scholarships on a large scale as is done in some states.</p>
<p>For some middle class students with high stats, both in-state and OOS, UA can offer one of the best financial aid packages of any schools which don’t promise to meet full need. This allows UA to attract a lot of talented students who otherwise wouldn’t have been able to afford to attend a college far from home.</p>
<p>yes, some states do this, but really not many. Funding on a large scale involves funding the sleep-away experience, which many states don’t do…because it is questionable whether to fund room and board with tax-payer dollars when many middle class/upper-middle cant afford it for their kids (and they wouldnt qualify for the aid). Funding room and board with tax payer dollars is essentially another welfare program. </p>
<p>Alabama, which is a lowish populated state for its geographical size, opted to have a proportionally large number of 4-year institutions peppered across the state. It is questionable to hand over $20k per year to high need students just so that they can skip past their local state univ. In many cases, a Pell grant, a student loan, work study and summer earnings can cover the costs to commute to a local school.</p>
<p>Arizona only has 3 state univs and it has a larger population. The state of Alabama has 14 four year colleges/univs, plus a large number of CCs. </p>
<p>The 4-6 best public univs in Alabama do award generous merit awards for stats. A low income student who has strong stats, can cobble the merit, Pell, SEOG, work-study, student loan, and summer income to get that sleepaway experience,</p>
<p>I was very impressed reading portions of the UA 2013-2014 FactBook, provided by the links already presented in this thread. Living in N AL since 1983 (previous states WI and TX), I was impressed with some of the first time undergraduates from AL high schools - 2,558 students in fall 2013 (one page list of HS named from 8 to 100 students, with 266 high schools providing 679 additional students). Some parents w/o college have their kids in some pretty good public and private HSs, so hat’s off for their efforts. </p>
<p>Recent Huntsville Times front page article (May 18, 2014) summarizes “IRS Analysis: AL’s Growth is mostly through births, not from people moving into the state”.</p>
<p>Industry is moving into the state, with growth of quality of jobs in the high tech city centers in the state. Remington is a recent example (moving from NY to Huntsville); today’s paper has headline “Science and Engineering Services plans $70 million expansion, creation of 450 jobs” - at its 1.2 million square foot Dunlop Blvd plant. SES currently has 750 workers in Huntsville.</p>
<p>Business and higher ed are working together in many circles. The notable growth of UA while increasingly drawing higher qualified students is showing UA leadership at the institutional and departmental levels - translating to ‘showing the love’ to any prospective student visiting campus. </p>
<p>OOS students at UA are not taking anything away from Alabama students. Many OOS students are paying the COA tuition, while the in-state students are paying the in-state tuition approved by the UA System Board of Trustees.</p>
<p>Informed in-state students who are keen on higher education work hard at HS and testing to reach scholarship level at UA so they can attend with having just room/board costs left versus commuting to a more local CC or college.</p>
<p>Alabama does well with having CC and universities dispersed throughout the state, with higher education available. Some lower income families may even find the local options cost prohibitive w/o scholarship. The low income family situation is is not a problem unique to AL.</p>
<p>Reference has been made to PACT (prepaid AL college tuition) which was supposed to guarantee in state tuition for a prescribed # of hours (my daughters’ contracts are for 135 undergrad hours and certain # of semesters/quarters of fees) - state of AL wiggled out of it being a true State Contract, and had legal agreement to have the contracts pay 2010 tuition rates since fall 2013 (so the later entry college students are hurt most by this frozen PACT rate, as college tuition rates typically go up every year). Fortunately PACT ‘stacks’ with any scholarships, and can assist with paying for other things (room, board, etc). A student may have PACT and not have scholarships, so the legal agreement makes it less likely that these students can afford to come to UA.</p>
<p>Here’s something to consider: in 2011, Alabama received $2.03 in federal funding for every dollar the state’s residents paid to the federal government. In other words, they doubled their money. The significant federal income taxes withheld from the paycheck every other week along with additional due every April 15 (despite my best efforts to decrease our taxes each year) surely contributes at least a little bit to Alabama’s federal money windfall, so I am not going to worry one bit about my son receiving an OOS full scholarship (for which we are eternally grateful.) And just think of the money we have already spent in Alabama at local hotels, restaurants, airports, and stores, and when he is in town, he will be spending his money, but mostly ours, in Tuscaloosa, not here in Florida. There are probably some Alabama students at the University of Florida, so let’s call it an equal trade :)</p>
<p>Now, if my son was taking the place of an Alabama resident who was equally qualified, then I would have some qualms. I do think that resident students should get first consideration at their own public universities, but it looks like plenty of Alabama students get accepted to their flagship, and there does not seem to be an issue, at least not right now, as long as the school is able to expand and accept more students each year.</p>
<p>The amount of federal dollars in AL is largely due to things like the large Arsenal in Huntsville which also includes NASA, having over 37,500 working on programs including missiles, aviation and space exploration; Cummings Research Park with over 300 companies and 29,000 people involved in technology research and development, much of it government contract research and development. In other parts of the state, Army Base, Maxwell Air Force Base to name a few. UAB medical research. I agree with @chesterton that AL does very well with Federal funds.</p>
<p>I do believe fewer students from AL pay OOS to attend Florida schools versus FL students who take advantage of high stat student scholarships at UA, but I am sure there are some that do so.</p>
<p>Anyone with any sense would welcome someone who comes and spends $$ in their state.</p>