<p>I guess what I’d really want is some kind of sense as to where is the sweet spot for a student with these stats. I don’t mean to be so linear or USNWR-driven as to say “LAC’s with ratings of 20- 40 are reaches, 40-60 are matches, 60-80 are safeties” but is there just any general sort of “sweet spot” that you can all advise me on to give me some sense what ballparks she’s in?</p>
<p>Also, I don’t really have much of a bead on Case. What’s it like? It has a really high acceptance rate – what do I make of that? (Of course, no college can win. Either I freak out at the acceptance rate, or the acceptance rate means that they admit everyone with a pulse.)</p>
<p>The admissions office is going to hate me for this post, but I wanted to share my thoughts about Bryn Mawr as a current math major there. </p>
<ul>
<li><p>I would not recommend Bryn Mawr to any prospective math major whatsoever. We do have quite a lot of math majors, but most of them enrolled as prospective humanities or social science majors, and only ended up as math majors because it is by far the easiest major the college offers. (In terms of workload per class as well as the grade distribution in each class.) The department recognizes this fact and encourages their stronger majors to take math classes at Haverford instead.</p></li>
<li><p>I have heard good reviews of the economics department. It is worth noting though that our department focuses on the policy side of economics rather than the quantitative aspects of the subject.</p></li>
<li><p>The chemistry department is great once you survive orgo. The class might be even more brutal at Bryn Mawr than elsewhere because our undergraduate students compete with post-bac pre-med students from ivy league schools. Apparently the post-bac average in last year’s course was a 93, while the undergraduate student average was in the 60s. I am so glad that I don’t have to take this class!</p></li>
</ul>
<p>My 2 cents.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: I suggest you hire Dave Berry of this site site to do a stats review of your daughter. He charges minimally for this service and is very generous with his time.</p>
<p>Thank you, mythmom.</p>
<p>My oldest daughter strongly considered Case Western, and I have always been a fan of the school. It’s markedly different from the others your d likes, of course, so a visit will tell you a lot. We really liked the campus, which is in a neat area of Cleveland, surrounded by hospitals, museums, theaters, etc. It’s urban, but not in a BU/NYU way - there are many green spots to enjoy. Suggestion: follow the school’s directions for getting back to I-90, if that’s the way you’ll be traveling. I thought I’d try a more direct route and drove through what seemed like miles of urban blight to get there.</p>
<p>Judging by what two family friends have had to say about being students at the school - it’s the kind of place where your kid will really be happier if she feels a strong fit when she visits. I am a self-identified nerd, married to a bigger nerd, and I’ll say it - there’s a nerd presence on campus (but in a cool nerd kind of way). The student body is talented and works hard, but we’re told there’s a party scene as well. The school makes it a priority to create a good undergrad experience. There’s a freshman forgiveness policy for 1st-year grades - don’t remember the details, but I think it was that Fs or Ws aren’t reported on the official transcript, though a kid who doesn’t earn enough credits can still be on academic probation? Anyway, the policy seemed to indicate an understanding of the period of adjustment freshmen go through.</p>
<p>And - Case had the best arrangement for visitor parking I’ve ever seen! :)</p>
<p>Common thread among her list - all have nice sounding, ‘homey’ names! Just reading the list makes me feel relaxed - Sweet Briar, Case, Colorado…</p>
<p>A few other thoughts:
Her stats are nothing to sneeze at and she is only a junior - if she retakes the ACT she may well score higher, making some reaches less reachy, especially as FA is not an issue. I would add more reaches to the list.</p>
<p>Some schools are self selective as you know so a higher acceptance rate does not mean a less involved student body in all cases.</p>
<p>Has she considered looking a schools that offer a major or minor in museum studies? With her work at the museum, it might be something to help focus her search.</p>
<p>Since we are discussing, Case-Western and Carnegie-Mellon, have you considered University of Rochester? D2 is a freshman there. She loves the Rochester curriculum. All students are required to take one writing course. All the majors/departments etc are divided up into Natural Science, Social Science and Humanities. Students major in one area and “cluster” in the other two. A cluster is 3 related courses. That’s it for gen eds. Because of this flexibility a lot of students double major and pick very unique combinations. Rochester’s climate is no worse than Cleveland’s. The Rochester metro area is much smaller than Cleveland’s but there is still a lot going on in terms of concerts, sports, shopping, restaurants.</p>
<p>We visited Case twice and were not overly impressed. Both visits they focused more on the fact that the university is a Cleveland and all Cleveland had too offer than what Case had to offer. We didn’t like our tour guide every time something “nerdy” was mentioned he said in a very exaggerated matter “because we’re Case”. DD went to a magnet math/science high school and kept looking at me as if to say “you’ve got to be kidding me.”</p>
<p>My sense in that Carnegie is more selective than Rochester and Rochester is more select than Case. I think it’s hard to say what ranking she should aim for with her high, match and safety schools since there are other variables like state schools that are required to accept a certain percentage of in-state students. However I would consider Carnegie a reach for her, Rochester a match and Case a safety.</p>
<p>Pizzamom, I don’t know that there is a single, generic sweet spot for kids like yours. Here, private school kids with that sort of profile go to exactly the sorts of colleges you are talking about – 21-50 LACs, less-popular universities and tech schools. Public school kids with that profile tend to go to local public universities, or local Catholic universities. I’m not certain about the suburbs, but I suspect its similar there. And the fact that that’s what they do doesn’t mean that other paths aren’t open to them.</p>
<p>Other ideas to investigate on the match/safety front: Elon University (small private in NC, very popular here for private school kids), Earlham (Quaker LAC in Indiana – sober, public-service oriented), the ever-popular-on-CC Rhodes, St. Olaf.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl wrote:</p>
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<p>You have articulated something I really struggled with! There was no real sweet spot for my Ds. Both have slightly higher stats than yours, but not by too much. Not Ivy material, maybe could do the Vandy/Rice/NW route, but obviously still reaches and no merit money (which was important to us.) </p>
<p>Here’s the difference – mine didn’t want LACs. I think you are on the right track here, with many schools on that list that offer those 30-32 ACT kids a challenging environment. Sure, there are different LACs with different feels and being female doesn’t always help, but a place like Kenyon would have been awesome for mine if they had wanted it – or maybe the women’s colleges or Claremont.</p>
<p>As it was, we were looking at large OOS flagships and lower-ranked privates with excellent programs in their fields AND merit money. And while there are plenty of bright kids where my D is at, and her program is great for her, there are also lots of kids that get in with much lower stats, and I do soemtimes wonder if there was another route we missed. But I think I have my answer now – it was the LAC thing and she didn’t want it.</p>
<p>Anyway – that didn’t add up to an actual suggestion for you, I guess! I really like Lawrence, too, but does that fit your criterion of being known outside our region? What about Illinois Wesleyan? Bates? Definitely Kenyon.</p>
<p>I think any of the former Seven Sisters schools will be known nationally among a certain group of relatively sophisticated people. that said, mount Holyoke sounds like a great addition to your D’s list. I think the all-women’s schools, with the exception of Wellesley, are considerably easier to get into than the ones that have gone co-ed (that is, MH will be easier than Vassar, for example). but with all of them you have the advantage of a great tradition of academic and social strength. (I think MH is cozy in a way that Smith is not, partly because I find Northampton too bustling.) </p>
<p>Coed LACs also lack general name recognition but that doesn’t mean they aren’t great options and great schools. People who need to know about them in terms of hiring and grad school admission are fully aware of their strengths. Based on my own family’s visits I’d put Bates in the cozy category despite the fact that Lewiston isn’t as pretty as some other LAC towns; Colby is pretty but not right in a town, which to my mind kept it from feeling as cozy. I really liked Gambier, so put Kenyon in the cozy list as well. (It goes without saying that these are all really good schools.)</p>
<p>Any thoughts on Davidson as a reach? (Too reachy?)</p>
<p>And I want to know more about Sweet Briar - I have certainly heard the “southern finishing school” stereotype (and wonder whether a Jewish girl, albeit a secular one, would have a problem). However, academics-wise, it seems to be ranked above some other schools that are being mentioned, like a Goucher. How should I interpret this?</p>
<p>Smith???</p>
<p>There is no harm in reaching as long as the overall list is well balanced, and now that you mention Davidson, it does sound as though it fits many of your daughter’s criteria.</p>
<p>I can’t speak to Sweet Briar, but I have heard good things (albeit second-hand) about Goucher.</p>
<p>I’d nominate MHC as maybe the coziest school in America.</p>
<p>PG, I would assume your DD would take ACT one more time between now and her application season. By the difference between her uw and wed GPA, one could tell she has taken some advanced course and done well. What will be this year’s grades? </p>
<p>Of the limited colleges I have visited, I would say Swarthmore sounds like a perfect fit. One train ride away from a major city. Small campus with very friend students. Very well known econ department etc. </p>
<p>No need for aid is like adding two points to your ACT score. If I were in your comfortable shoes, I would encouarge her to take ACT one more time and include a couple reaches.</p>
<p>best of luck.</p>
<p>Yes, she will take ACT in April of junior year (our state requires all students to take ACT plus writing at this time). If things work out such that she wants to take it a third time (or take SAT), she’ll have time to do that before any kind of ED/EA decision needs to be made. As for this year’s grades? I can’t predict in October how the whole year will play out!</p>
<p>Swarthmore is lovely and I am a fan, but I’d see her at Haverford or BM before Swat, personally. I think Swarthmore is probably too reachy for her.</p>
<p>Do others agree that no need for aid is like adding 2 points to the ACT score? It is a strategic benefit to her insofar as this opens up ED/EA, but I’ve never thought it as an admissions benefit per se.</p>
<p>Any thoughts on Miami of OH – match or safety? I recognize it’s bigger. Colgate as a reach? Could Colgate be a high match, potentially?</p>
<p>Swarthmore is great, but it is very, very picky. And need blind, and committed to that as a principle. Not needing aid will not add two points to your ACT score there, and adding two points to the ACT score in this case would not improve the applicant’s chances enough to make the application more than a lottery ticket. You wouldn’t believe some of the students Swarthmore rejects. (Case in point, last year: 2350 SATs, uw GPA ~4.0, one of the top 4-5 students at a very strong private school with historical ties to Swarthmore, Swarthmore clearly first choice, female student with engineering interest: nope.)</p>
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<p>I’m ok with Lawrence (actually quite fine with it) having visited. Does IL Wesleyan have any kind of reputation? Honestly, I live in IL and I know nothing about it other than the name. I wonder if the name hurts it - it just sounds so regional to me. Maybe that’s part of my reaction to Beloit and Kalamazoo - named for their small city.</p>
<p>Thanks, JHS - I suspected Swat was out of the ballpark, and frankly if she felt the need to swing at the very tippy-top, I’d just as soon advise her to ED at double-legacy NU than to swing at a Swat.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with “swinging at Swat”; she should do it if she wants to. It’s just more of a flyer, not an actual plan.</p>
<p>I admit that “Kalamazoo” does not connote cosmopolitan education or high academic standards, but by most reports the college seems to provide both. I have seen a few smart kids with not-quite-stellar high school grades be very happy and engaged there.</p>