Do what you love or go with the flow?

Graduate School
1

<p>I have graduated now (Bachelors in Physics) and I am in the process of figuring out what to do with my life. Actually, figuring out plan B.</p>

<p>I had plan A figured out, it just requires a slight climb and I am prepared to do it. However, at the same time I feel myself asking if it's worth it? I want to pursue a PhD in physics! My research experiences have been in high energy theory, and I really enjoyed it, but it's a tough field. I am taking time off exploring new options in physics. I re-took my physics gres and now I just need to do well on the general one as well. I have made a list of schools, had my advisors help me, but I am not sure I am happy with it. At the time I made this list, I wanted to do particle theory. Now, I am not sure anymore. </p>

<p>I am trying to look into other physics field that hopefully are not as competitive and would lead to more opportunities. </p>

<p>Many people tell you to do what you love. I have figured out what I really love doing ( research in physics) but I am just not sure I am good enough and I want to become better. I really want to study and work hard, but I am wondering if it will even pay off in the end?</p>

<p>Should I keep trying? Or should I just go with the flow and look at the job market and just do whatever it takes to make money? (Plan B) </p>

<p>Currently I am trying to make plan A work and I have a small hourly job that pays well (tutor physics), but not enough. I live at home too, and I sort of just feel like a failure. It seems that everyone around me has it all figured it out.</p>

<p>I appreciate any insight or advice. </p>

2

<p>Before I give you any advice, let me just say that I have been a physics professor at Illinois Tech for 31 years and I have had a lot of advisees go on to graduate school.</p>

<p>It would help to know your GPA and GRE scores to frame your potential. High energy theory is something that a lot of us fall in love with as undergraduates but it is one of the most difficult subfields in which to make a career. I thought that is wah ti wanted to do many years ago but I learned in my first year of graduate studies that is was really not for me. I have become a condensed matter experimentalist and more recently I have been doing research on topics that are on the borderline between physics and chemistry and materials science. It has been a very rewarding career. I love teaching and I love doing research. I can’t even imagine retiring and I currently have 7 Ph.D .students in my group.</p>

<p>Beyond that I am the director of the department’s graduate programs and I have seen a lot of students coming in with the notion of working in a particular area but then changing and finding a lot of interesting projected to get involved with. The main thing is whether you are convinced that you are prepared to take 5-6 years to get a Ph.D. You should only do this if you are passionate about research because you won’t make a lot of money in those years. However, it you ar pretty sure that this is what you want to do, then you should go for it.</p>

<p>No physics department expects you to stay with the field that you think you like when you apply. You will have to take at least one full year of courses and pass a qualifying examination before really choosing the area of research that is best for you. My advice is to apply to the schools that you have on your list and make sure that you have some which are sure to admit you with support and which you are willing to attend. Since you have not divulged your GPA, GRE scores, and your list of schools, I cannot say much more than this.</p>

<p>To answer your most important question. Yes, you will be able to find a job with a Ph.D. in physics. Maybe it is not a postdoc followed by a faculty position but it might be at a national lab doing research, as t company doing research or in a field that appreciates the training that you have gotten as a Ph.D. student. It is likely that if you are a condensed matter experimentalist, you have a lot of opportunities in industry, but the Ph.D. in physics driving a cab is a myth. You can get a good job if you are flexible in your choice of careers.</p>

<p>Now, if you are an URM or female, and your GPA and GRE scores are a bit lower than might be optimal for getting into a graduate program, you should look into the [APS</a> Bridge program](<a href=“APS Bridge Program”>http://www.apsbridgeprogram.org/), which provides a transition to a Ph.D. program. </p>

<p>Bottom line, if you really want to do a Ph.D. and you go into it with your eyes open, it is a good choice for you.</p>

3

<p>^@xraymancs living the dream :smiley: </p>

<p>I’m not in physics, so I’m speaking only from the perspective of someone who chose to get a PhD and pursue a research career. I’m just at the beginning of my research career - I finished my PhD in August and am currently a postdoctoral fellow.</p>

<p>The pros: Getting a PhD was difficult but rewarding. If you really love research, and you are serious about wanting a research career, getting a PhD is a net good thing to do, I think. In my own field (public health/psychology), the average starting salary for graduates wasn’t any different from my graduate school stipend; I have few peers who ended up making significantly more than me much earlier than I did. I did have a few friends graduate with master’s a year or two before me, but I’ve since caught up to them - and will probably pass them once I finish my postdoc. And there are worse things to do than get paid for 5-6 years working on research problems that you really love.</p>

<p>On the other hand, getting a PhD is incredibly frustrating and sometimes demoralizing. You tend to doubt your own abilities a lot and compare yourself unfavorably to your peers; most doctoral students go through at least one bout of depression (not necessarily clinical - just depressive symptomology). There were many times in graduate school that I wish I had just gone to work or gotten a master’s degree after college, and more than a few times when I contemplating dropping out and getting a job with the MA I earned along the way. I don’t feel that way now, but your perspective changes a lot once you’re finished and have the miseries (and joys) of the doctoral program behind you.</p>

<p>And then there is, of course, job market anxiety, which I am in the throes of right now. Even if you don’t come in with the intention to go into academia - which I did not, I want(ed) to work for the federal government - it has a way of sucking you in and privileging the research-extensive tenure-track faculty position over all of the other rewarding, interesting research careers out there - and if you go into physics there are many (there are quite a lot in my field, too). You start to think of yourself in terms of whether you can land one of those jobs even if you are pretty sure you don’t want one.</p>

<p>The thing is that graduate school will always be there, waiting. You don’t have to decide right now - you can try to find a full-time job in physics or a related field now, and work for a few years and see how it feels. If you still have that yearning to return to get a PhD because you really want a research career, then you can always do that in 2-3 years. It’s very common for people to take some time before going into a PhD program. I was the very youngest person in mine, coming straight from undergrad at 22.</p>

<p>Also, I can assure you that not everyone around you has it all figured out - even the people who look like they do. I used to get that comment ALL THE TIME from my peers, who saw me go into a PhD program at 22 and be almost done when they were just entering graduate programs, and they would always tell me “you’re always so put together” or “you have it all figured out! I wish I did.” And I would just laugh and say “heck no.” I did what was a good idea for me at the time. Later I wasn’t so sure it was the right choice. I’ve since decided that there is never really one right choice; there are a variety of choices that you can make and then make them work. Likewise, there are a variety of things that you can do and enjoy and be really passionate about. No choice is “right,” and you can’t predict the future, so you just have to decide what you are going to do now and then reassess as time goes on.</p>

4

<p>Thank you so much for the advice and sharing your experiences with me xraymancs and juillet! I really really appreciate it. </p>

<p>After my research experiences in hep-th, I really loved it. I was doing well in research, but I just don’t think i want to do Hep-th anymore. I wish I also had research experiences in a different subfield, but at the time I enjoyed hep-th and I actually wasn’t very successful obtaining experimental research experiences. I was rejected everytime by REUS and even a couple of experimental profs at my college ( bad timing I guess). I was lucky to get the opportunities I did in hep-th. I didn’t know it was difficult field going in, but I learned during. </p>

<p>I do know that I love research and someday my ideal career would be very research oriented ( academia or industry). I know what you mean by the job market juillet, I am going through that right now. I guess I shouldn’t judge someone and think they have it all figured it out just because I am not where I want to be. I truly don’t mean to do that, but I can’t help it sometimes. </p>

<p>I am seriously considering applying to Master’s degree programs just so that I have that option. </p>

<p>I will also regret not attempting plan A. The reason I didn’t give my gpa or pgre is because I don’t think they are very strong (3.5ish physics gpa and 52% pgre). My advisors are very encouraging and suggested some very good schools* ( they know my records and everything), but I also think they are more optimistic than I am. I am female, but I don’t know if that makes a difference? It’s quality that matters right? </p>

<p>*Some are ranked high, but some are not. I do know these schools have a strong hep-th program, hence why I think my chances are low regardless of ranking or w/e. I might have to make a new list now, though. </p>

<p>xraymancs, I have an important question. Someone told me that I will have a hard time getting accepted if I indicate an interest in experiment because my background is only theory. Apparently there are cases where people lie or something. However, I am not trying to lie. I really just want to try something else. I want a subfield of physics that would give me the option of going into industries. I am looking into quantum computing currently, but condensed matter is very appealing too. </p>

<p>Even though a physics department does not expect you to stay with the field you applied for, they judge you based on what you pick right? For example theory applicants need very high pgres. I took this test multiple times and studied very hard, and I was able to do well on practice exams, but messed up the real one ( again). My grades in my classes could be much better, I have As with some B+s and a couple of Bs in physics. However that just looks bad. For example one class I had a 94%or something on psets, 80%midterm and 95% on final and still ended up with a B+ because final grade was only worth 10 or 15% ( can’t remember). There’s nothing I can do about this haha…</p>

<p>Point is I look bad on paper so I am not confident :confused: I know deep down I am smart, can handle advanced topics, and very capable of research, but I am judged by my paper credentials. I would do anything to make it better and reflect my potential. I wished I could have afforded the masters program I was accepted to, but I simply could not. =( </p>

5

<p>If you want a Ph.D., don’t go for a Masters. Most Ph.D. granting programs won’t support you for a Masters. With a 3.5 GPA there are plenty of programs which will take you as a domestic student. Even the 52% PGRE is not a complete turn off. Many departments now acknowledge that GREs are very limited measures of how successful a doctoral student can be. What you need to do is to choose your schools carefully. only apply to one or two of those highly selective programs which put a lot of emphasis on GRE and GPAs. Look to the less selective programs which still have the areas you are interested in and who are ready to look at your full application before making a decision.</p>

<p>If you find a good fit, you will be given the opportunity to grow academically and develop in to a good researcher. That is basically what we do at IIT. We don’t often get the 3.9 GPA applicant with a 90% PGRE. Our students typically are just like you and when we admit a student we are expending serious resources and want them to succeed. At the end of the day our students are able to do good, funded, thesis research projects and get good positions in industry or as post-docs. Much of one’s ability to get a good position depends on one’s advisor and not the university’s “reputation”. Smaller programs never rank well because they are small but the students who come out of them can do just as well. Of my Ph.D. students, five are tenure-track faculty (one has a Chair at Oxford, another has been Graduate Dean at his university), four are in industry, and three are (or have been) at National Laboratories and others are post-docs or research faculty. If the program fits you, go for it.</p>

<p>Graduate admissions committees don’t really care about what you did for your research as an undergraduate. It is more important that you have that experience. If it was HEP theory, no problem. I did computational theory as an undergraduate but ended up an experimentalist. It is possible that they will judge you by your preference but if you are honest and say that you have lots of interests and you are open to exploring which area of physics is the right one for you, i don’t think that will be a problem. Frankly, i look for students who say that they are flexible because you never know if there is funding available in a specific area or not and a student that is dead-set on a specific field may not fit our department. For example, last year we had an applicant who said that all he wanted to study was string theory. We did not admit him simply because we do not have that area and he seemed unwilling to consider anything else.</p>

<p>The fact that you are female means that you will be attractive to a number of programs. Women are still in short supply in physics departments. I have been told that the culture in physics is “mean” and not very welcoming for women and many departments are trying to change. In our program, we have made an effort to admit more women and we have been able to have on the order of 25-30% in our program at any one time. Right now it is 13/47~28%. I think that other departments are trying to raise this number as well.</p>

<p>Follow the advice of your mentors and try to find a program that will help you maximize your potential. You do not have a poor academic record at all, you are just not going to be competitive at those highly selective programs which have to triage based on GRE scores and GPA because they have so many applicants. My prediction is that you will be able to get into a Ph.D. program as long as you apply to those which are eager to have a student of your caliber.</p>

<p>@juillet‌ - Sounds like you are well on your way to reaching your dream as well…</p>

6

<p>Thank you for the reply @xraymancs</p>

<p>I should have specified that I am applying to Master’s in Engineering. I don’t have the background to apply directly for PhD, and Master’s for this field can lead to good industry options too. </p>

<p>Truthfully I am not interested in most of the highly selective programs, with the exception of two. One of which I won’t bother to apply because I am pretty sure they have a cut off pgre score. Okay I am not sure, but oh well. </p>

<p>I think the schools my professors suggested are good, but I want to make sure they are strong in other too. I really am leaning away from high energy theory and high energy physics in general. </p>

<p>“If you find a good fit, you will be given the opportunity to grow academically and develop in to a good researcher.”</p>

<p>This to me is very important! If I had a lot of money, I would have visited schools that I am considering before applying. I would be more confident about applying then. </p>

<p>“if you are honest and say that you have lots of interests and you are open to exploring which area of physics is the right one for you, i don’t think that will be a problem. Frankly, i look for students who say that they are flexible because you never know if there is funding available in a specific area or not and a student that is dead-set on a specific field may not fit our department.” </p>

<p>Yup! I am working on this! I am reading up on research in other fields subfields. To be honest, I never understand how there are applicants who are dead set on doing string theory if they have never worked in the field before. I have no idea what it is like to do research in something like Topological Insulators in CMT/CME, so it’s hard for me to write my statement with that kind of confidence. Enthusiasm is there, though. </p>

<p>It’s true that we should encourage women to pursue STEM, but I think STEM should be encouraged in general. These days, doctors, detectives, lawyers, and CEOs are always glorified. ( Look at the type of T.V shows we have). For some reason, Kim Kardashian is glorified too. I wish STEM was presented in the media better. </p>

<p>Thanks again for all the advice. I hope I will be living my dream like you guys! </p>

7

<p>Ah, now I understand. I thought you were interested in a Ph.D. in physics. In that case, of course, but I might suggest that if you go to the right physics program you could be doing Ph.D. research in a very applied area and not have to go through the effort of making up missing coursework to get a degree in engineering. At the Ph.D. level, there is a lot of crossover and I know several faculty who have their Ph.D. in physics but are in Engineering departments and faculty in Physics departments with Ph.D.s in Chemistry. A Ph.D. is mostly about the research and that is what defines you, not the title of your degree.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

8

<p>@xraymancs I noticed many Physics profs also being a part of electrical engineering department and vice versa. I started to look into condensed matter more too. I am especially interested in research concerning quantum information. </p>

<p>I think Master’s admissions are slightly less selective than PhD admissions no? I am having them as my backup option. </p>

<p>Thank you! I appreciated all the advice you have given me! </p>

9

<p>Yes, generally Masters admission standards are lower. At universities which have a Ph.D. program they will probably expect you to self-fund a Masters program. I would urge you to look for Ph.D. programs in Physics which have the kind of research you are interested in. You should be a competitive candidate for a moderately selective program.</p>

10

<p>Thank you @xraymancs ! I am looking into PhD physics programs too. I ended up crossing every physics school off my list and starting a new list with a more open mind. </p>

<p>There are not that many physics school that do quantum information it seems, and I am not applying to two of the programs that are moderately selective because I’m not interested by any of other research they have going on (location matters too). This is sort of what led me to look at master’s in engineering, actually. </p>

<p>Hopefully I will get everything worked out. Thanks for all your help! </p>