I noticed that a lot of people seem to get a masters before a PhD. In fact, it seems that all my PhD professors got a masters first. I am curious if a masters is required for admission to a PhD program. If it is not, then why do people get masters degrees before PhD’s?
Some PhD programs include a masters along the way.
No, many students enter PhD programs with a BA/BS. However, many PhD students pick up an MA/MS on the way to a PhD.
It also makes for a sort of insurance in case you don’t finish your PhD. Doing a program where you get a masters after a few years means you will still have something to show for the time and effort you put in.
When my husband earned his doctoral degree, he applied directly to the doctoral program and entered it. A masters degree was awarded partway through his course of study.
No
It depends on the discipline. Some have “one the way” Masters Degrees and other fields require a MS before applying to a PhD program.
Sometimes students get a masters first because they think their record won’t be competitive for the PhD programs they are interested in right out of undergrad. For example, students who didn’t have much undergrad research experience or students who haven’t taken the desired coursework for good PhD programs.
Some students get a masters first because they are changing their area of study. Or their undergrad GPA is low and they want to improve it before applying to doctorate programs. Or they didn’t realize they wanted a PhD until later.
But many students apply directly to PhD programs after finishing their bachelors. Often a student acts as a TA in return for a stipend and free tuition, and they take classes for the first 2 years or so of the doctorate program. This can vary by school, and sometimes highly qualified students get to start right in on research. Usually they take some kind of qualifying exam (varies by institution) as they go along, and then enter into the research & dissertation part of the doctorate program. They are also awarded a masters once that coursework is complete.
Some students end up just leaving with the masters. Maybe they didn’t pass their quals, or maybe they have changed their mind about completing the PhD.
Getting a masters before entering a PhD program does not guarantee that you will place out of doing the masters work at your PhD school. My kid is in a PhD program with students who got masters from other places. Those students are required to pass the quals exam in her program before moving onto the research phase — and some are finding that difficult. So they are repeating the masters coursework, TAing, and trying to pass their quals. It makes for a longer road to the doctorate, that is for sure.
My kid learned a lot about grad school from a website called Grad Cafe, you should check it out.
It also depends on the country. Many European universities explicitly require a master’s degree before you can apply for a PhD program. It’s also fairly typical for applicants to PhD programs in Canada to have a master’s degree. (You can earn a master’s along the way to the PhD in Canada, but funding is much scarcer as a master’s student from the US.)
On the other hand, graduate school is not a race. Some of the most successful applicants on the job market are those who took their time and have a handful of articles to show for it. Many universities won’t fund grad students after 5 or 6 years, though, so outside fellowships are important.
I got a master’s at one school and then another master’s along the way to my PhD at another university, switching fields slightly between programs, and have no regrets. It gave me an expanded network of professors to draw on, and I was able to get an article and a couple of conference presentations out of my master’s thesis.
My D just finished her 3rd year in her CS PhD program at a California public university.
Last year, she asked her adviser whether she should petition for MS degree, he (slightly annoyed I guess) told her if she planned to leave the program, he would sign her petition for MS. Otherwise, it would create extra paperwork without any significant benefit.
Some of her cohorts have MS degree before entering the PhD program, some don’t. The MS degree makes very little difference.
^If I were your daughter, I would push back on that advisor (assuming she wants the MS). I’ve heard several PhD advisors give this kind of advice or get slightly annoyed with students for wanting the degrees that they’ve earned. You don’t have to want to leave a PhD program to want the non-terminal MA; I was granted an MA and an M.Phil on the way to my PhD (that’s the way my university does it). It doesn’t make much of a difference if you finish, but it does make a difference if you want part-time jobs or internships during your last few years of the PhD - some of those require you to have a master’s degree, and some pay more money if you have one. (I got some part-time work during my graduate program that required a master’s degree.) And, of course, if she does decide to leave it’ll make a big difference.
It’s not that much paperwork. My application for the MA was one form that required a single signature from my advisor; I did the rest of the work (which was simply filing the form in the appropriate office). I don’t know why advisors are so prickly about this unless they think it’s extra insurance against their students leaving the program, which is ludicrous; or unless they simply think students shouldn’t care about material rewards for their work, which is absurd.
Agree — what if at some point she doesn’t get the PhD? Things can go wrong between here and there, and not all are under her control.
It depends on the field an program. Many PhD programs award a Master’s along the way. Some students leave at this point for various reasons, and it’s sort of like a consolation prize.
Getting a terminal master’s before a PhD is increasingly common, although I don’t really know why.
My D and we have absolutely no doubt about the advisor. He is dedicated and has been given my D extra support. I guess he was slightly annoyed because he didn’t like the thought of losing my D as a student.
My D didn’t push back because in her field and as an intern, having MS doesn’t mean bringing in more money.
I’m sure if for whatever reason my D doesn’t complete her PhD, she’ll get the MS degree.
I think it was more common >20 years ago to do MS then PhD… It also depends on the school how the MS to PhD sequence goes. Some might have MS degrees because they did a BS/MS degree in 5 years (more research experience).
In some programs, when you pass candidacy, you actually receive a MS designation in your transcript, or you can petition for it if you really want.
In my PhD program, I could not petition for a MS after candidacy. As long as you don’t burn bridges with your advisor, you get an MS if you leave after candidacy but before defending your PhD. I’ve also seen people leave with MS degrees without passing candidacy - as long as they have the minimum course work done and can write a reasonable thesis.
The professors I know who did discrete MS degrees are generally ones from foreign undergrad institutions (or weaker American schools) who needed the MS to improve their CV before going to top schools for their PhD.
I’ve known people who left the program physically to go finish writing their thesis, and then weren’t able to get their thesis approved. It dragged on for some time (years, in fact). I think it could have been challenging to go back at that point and get the MS paperwork done. If this happens to my kid, I will encourage her to ask the advisor to please humor her and do whatever is needed on the paperwork. I doubt they will be unhappy as long as your D sticks around for the PhD. It seems like it would be challenging if maybe the advisor leaves or something. I’d get that MS when it was earned, not just assume someone will take care of it later.
Just like with undergrad degrees, the cost of a masters has gone up. That could definitely influence whether students go to masters programs.