<p>Is getting into an MBA program like getting into a law or medical school in the sense that their is no required major, or do you need to have taken prereq business classes?</p>
<p>(sorry if this is an obvious question but i couldnt find any stickys on it)</p>
<p>No need to major in business. However, unlike law/medical school you generally need several years of post graduate work experience.</p>
<p>You do not need a business degree (in fact, I think I remember something like that the number of engineering majors and business majors is almost the same for top level MBA programs). However, you need work experience, and the ability to show leadership. This is easier achieved with some majors (like engineering, business, econ) compared to more liberal arts majors (like history, english,...etc), unless you go to a top LAC or Ivy, which helps your job placement tremendously.</p>
<p>I show on another thread that JD/MBA programs exist, I think I may look into that.</p>
<p>JD/MBA programs are actually very common, though you will have to apply to each program separately and gain admission to each on your merits for that program. Generally, that means that you will need post-college full time work experience in order to gain admission to business school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You do not need a business degree (in fact, I think I remember something like that the number of engineering majors and business majors is almost the same for top level MBA programs
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, for many of the top business schools,you tend to see many more former engineering majors than business majors.</p>
<p>For example, of the incoming MBA class at the MIT Sloan School of Managementl, 43% hold engineering undergrad degrees, but only 18% hold business/commerce undergrad degrees.</p>
<p>Class</a> of 2009 Profile - MBA Program</p>
<p>Now, you might be thinking, well, yeah, that's the business school at MIT. Of course MIT is going to have a lot of engineers. Ok, well, then consider the incoming class profile at the Stanford GSB. 19% majored in business, whereas 35% of them majored in engineering/natural-science/mathematics (and I don't think many of them are natural science or math majors). </p>
<p>I still thought Stanford was a science-ish school so I looked at Harvard:</p>
<p>MBA</a> Statistics — Harvard Business School</p>
<p>and Engineering and Humanities/Social Science were both mid to upper 30s while business administration was mid-20s.</p>
<p>I guess the advice here is don't major in business?</p>
<p>A majority of students attend MBA schools because they are career switchers, many engineers can't be promoted to upper level management without an MBA. However, many finance/accounting/economics majors are able to find lucrative opportunities without further grad school. Their first degree has served them well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is getting into an MBA program like getting into a law or medical school in the sense that their is no required major,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Getting into medical school has a lot of very specific required courses but no required major. Law and business schools have no required courses and no required major.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A majority of students attend MBA schools because they are career switchers, many engineers can't be promoted to upper level management without an MBA. However, many finance/accounting/economics majors are able to find lucrative opportunities without further grad school. Their first degree has served them well.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ah, but there's a gap in that logic. Specifically, there's a big difference between earning an undergraduate engineering degree and actually working as an engineer. Many people who get engineering degrees do not work as engineers.</p>
<p>As a case in point, again, let's look at the incoming MBA profile at the MIT Sloan School. As I noted, 43% of the incoming class had undergraduate engineering degrees. However, only 17% of the incoming class actually worked (as their leading job function) as engineers. In fact, the leading job function of the entering class of the Sloan MBA program is consulting at 22% of the class, and it's obviously not possible to "major" in consulting. </p>
<p>Class</a> of 2009 Profile - MBA Program</p>
<p>What that strongly suggests is that either people who formerly worked as engineers were successfully able to change to other jobs such as general management, marketing, etc. (and then later decided to get their Sloan MBA), or that these people who earned engineering degrees got non-engineering jobs right after undergrad. I think the latter is just as likely as the former, if not more so. For example, I have shown in other threads how 25% of the MIT EECS undergrads do not take engineering jobs, instead choosing to work as consultants or Ibankers, and similar percentages hold for the other engineering majors at MIT. </p>
<p>The point is, I see no evidence to indicate that a business degree as a first degree serves people better than an engineering first-degree. Seems to me that engineers have just as many business career opportunities as do business majors, holding the prestige of the school constant.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The point is, I see no evidence to indicate that a business degree as a first degree serves people better than an engineering first-degree. Seems to me that engineers have just as many business career opportunities as do business majors, holding the prestige of the school constant.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Your last sentence said it all, "holding the prestige of the school constant". Sakky, you are only talking about the tiniest minority of engineers who graduated from Ivy, MIT or Stanford.
I am saying that for a majority of engineers, their engineering degree isn't enough to propel them to a higher job level and they see a need for an advanced degree. Unlike law school or medical school, an MBA is a degree that is optional, meaning one can be engaged in business activities with the degree. If one is doing well in his/her career path, MBA is really optional as he/she can do better to work on his career than stopping for two years and spending $100K+.</p>
<p>What I said still stands, that a lot of engineers wish to switch careers or they hit a certain ceiling in their job they need to have their tickets punched with an MBA degree in order to advance.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Your last sentence said it all, "holding the prestige of the school constant". Sakky, you are only talking about the tiniest minority of engineers who graduated from Ivy, MIT or Stanford.
I am saying that for a majority of engineers, their engineering degree isn't enough to propel them to a higher job level and they see a need for an advanced degree. Unlike law school or medical school, an MBA is a degree that is optional, meaning one can be engaged in business activities with the degree. If one is doing well in his/her career path, MBA is really optional as he/she can do better to work on his career than stopping for two years and spending $100K+.</p>
<p>What I said still stands, that a lot of engineers wish to switch careers or they hit a certain ceiling in their job they need to have their tickets punched with an MBA degree in order to advance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am naturally talking only about the tiniest minority of engineers, just like you are naturally talking about only the tiniest minority of business majors. Let's face it. The vast majority of finance/economics/business students do not find lucrative opportunities with their degrees simply because the vast majority of them come from average schools. Almost all of them are never going to get an opportunity to join an investment bank, private equity firm, etc. </p>
<p>Hence, at the end of the day, we have to compare students holding school prestige constant. For example, is the economics/business student from South Dakota State University really better off than the engineering student from South Dakota State University? That's highly unclear to me.</p>
<p>
[quote]
is the economics/business student from South Dakota State University really better off than the engineering student from South Dakota State University? That's highly unclear to me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In life, at the end of the day, the LUCKY one will be better off.</p>
<p>I'd rather be lucky than good any day.</p>
<p>Still, I wouldn't count on luck.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In life, at the end of the day, the LUCKY one will be better off.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Cbreeze, are you going to seriously rely on luck all the time?</p>
<p>Look, the fact of the matter is that there are things you can do to improve your odds of success. For example, if I eat right, exercise daily, and don't smoke, I will probably enjoy a healthy and long life. Not guaranteed, of course. I might be unlucky. I might do all of that and tomorrow, I might get hit by a bus. But the odds are better. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I might decide to become fat, smoke 3 packs a day, never exercise, and always eat junk food, and I might still live a long life, if I'm very lucky. </p>
<p>The truth of the matter is that the average engineer makes more money than the average college graduate. And when you're talking about making life choices, you have to look at what the averages dictate to you. A person who exercises and eats right will, on average, live longer and healthier than the person who does neither. The person who wears a seat belt will be safer, on average, than the person who doesn't. That's why we, as a society, encourage certain, safer behaviors. Why bother doing that, if luck is purely random?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The truth of the matter is that the average engineer makes more money than the average college graduate.
[/quote]
This says nothing. What does the average college graduate make? Are you talking about starting salaries? or 5, 10 ,20 years into their career ? I can also say that the average accountant makes more than the average college graduate. I can also say that the average math major makes more than the average college graduate.</p>
<p>Read my post. Did I say anything about relying on luck? Did I say people should do nothing and rely solely on luck? Can engineers read?</p>
<p>Truth of the matter is, you cannot rely on luck because you won't find luck, but that luck finds you and if you don't have any luck, even though you are a hard working engineer, you won't be better off.</p>
<p>Ask any successful business person and I am sure in a majority of times , he/she will say lucky happenstance plays a central part in his/her success.</p>
<p>Chance favors the prepared mind. - Louis Pasteur</p>
<p>Chance favors only those who court her. - Charles Nicolle</p>
<p>
[quote]
Read my post. Did I say anything about relying on luck? Did I say people should do nothing and rely solely on luck? Can engineers read?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I can read quite well, and in particular, I read what you wrote next:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Truth of the matter is, you cannot rely on luck because you won't find luck, but that luck finds you and if you don't have any luck, even though you are a hard working engineer, you won't be better off.</p>
<p>Ask any successful business person and I am sure in a majority of times , he/she will say lucky happenstance plays a central part in his/her success.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So basically, you just said that people should cast their fate to luck. That's basically the same thing as relying on luck. {If you disagree, then exactly what would you call that?.}</p>
<p>
[quote]
This says nothing. What does the average college graduate make? Are you talking about starting salaries? or 5, 10 ,20 years into their career ? I can also say that the average accountant makes more than the average college graduate. I can also say that the average math major makes more than the average college graduate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It says nothing? In fact, it says EVERYTHING. You just conceded the central point yourself, which is that what you choose to major in (whether it's engineering, math, accounting, or whatever) will impact what you earn. And that's not a matter of luck, because you CHOOSE what to to major in. It's not like some people are "lucky" to major in engineering or accounting or whatever. You CHOOSE it. And that CHOICE will impact your earnings. Hence, that demonstrates the limits of luck. </p>
<p>Thank you for proving my point.</p>
<p>"Luck is the residue of design"
-Branch Rickey</p>
<p>
[quote]
The truth of the matter is that the average engineer makes more money than the average college graduate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is this a true statement? If you can't prove it to be true, so my statement that it is meaningless stands. </p>
<p>
[quote]
It says nothing? In fact, it says EVERYTHING. You just conceded the central point yourself, which is that what you choose to major in (whether it's engineering, math, accounting, or whatever) will impact what you earn. And that's not a matter of luck, because you CHOOSE what to to major in. It's not like some people are "lucky" to major in engineering or accounting or whatever. You CHOOSE it. And that CHOICE will impact your earnings.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have not conceded anything. What I said about accountant and math majors is to show how irrelevant your statement is.
However , you are forgetting that in order to be able to even choose to major in anything, you have to be accepted by a college first. And are you going to refute the fact that getting into college, especially the ones whose degrees will confer larger salaries, requires some sort of lucky breaks? Why do some students with perfect scores get rejected from certain school while others with lower scores get accepted. Ever heard of "luck of the draw"? "It's a crapshoot."?</p>
<p>
[quote]
It says nothing? In fact, it says EVERYTHING. You just conceded the central point yourself, which is that what you choose to major in (whether it's engineering, math, accounting, or whatever) will impact what you earn. And that's not a matter of luck, because you CHOOSE what to to major in. It's not like some people are "lucky" to major in engineering or accounting or whatever. You CHOOSE it. And that CHOICE will impact your earnings. Hence, that demonstrates the limits of luck.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Tell that to the freshly laid off i-bankers whose job functions involve securities backed mortgages . This layoff will certainly negatively impact their earnings. How far does their CHOICE enter into this equation?</p>
<p>Back to my original post about who will earn more, the engineer or the business major from Noname school, I still say, whoever is luckier, given the same circumstance.</p>
<p>Sakky, are you cocky enough to say that luck has not played a part in everything you've done?</p>