My son’s high school recommended Algebra 1 freshman year (even though he took it in 8th and received an A) and I really didn’t know enough to perhaps push back and request he be placed or test in to Geometry (had homeschooled through 7th). So now he’s a junior and scheduled for pre-calc next year. Since he wants to go into engineering, we thought it would be smart to take pre-calc at a local college this summer and then take calc in the fall at the college. (His high school is very difficult to work with - they don’t accept outside classes and you need to jump through hoops to try and test into a higher level class; to even take an AP class you need like a 95+ in Honors classes, and you can’t take any AP classes until Junior year.) Anyway, today he took a placement exam for the college to see if he could place into pre-calc and placed right into calculus. So I’m wondering if he even needs to take pre-calc? Can he just jump right to calc, or are there foundations in precalc that will be necessary for calc?
That would be a question to ask the math department at that community college. Depending on the content and pace of their calculus course, he might be perfectly fine.
It truly depends. I’m a freshman in HS taking Calc ab right now, and honestly I don’t think precalc helped me for the course that much. I took it online via FLVS…our teacher is strict and the course is hard, but it also depends on how mathematically inclined he is.
Thanks for the replies. @happymomof1 college says it’s up to my son, but they say according to them, he is ready for Calc since he tested into it. @squ1rrel my daughter said the same thing - she took Calc this year in college but doesn’t feel Pre-Calc helped much, if at all. I feel like if his high school’s progression is pre-calc first there must be a reason for it, no?
So if he took calc in summer, what would he take in fall? I’d be tempted to still do pre calc in summer to be ready without doubt for school’s calc.
@CheddarcheeseMN since we knew he’d be doing pre calc and calc at the college, he signed up for Comp Sci as his senior hs math. I think I will call the math dept head at his hs to ask their opinion, but as I noted upthread they don’t encourage outside classes at all so I’m not sure I’ll get the best answer for my son.
If he wants to be an engineer I’d be inclined to take precalc as you want a very strong foundation. However, on the other hand it depends on what the course content is at the CC? Can he dual enroll senior year if he takes calc over the summer to continue on with math
IMO, there are a lot of topics in “pre-calc” that are basic math topics, not actually calculus related. I’m sure lots of folks could do fine in Geometry without taking Algebra, for example, but they still need Algebra.
Has he learned conic sections, analytic geometry, sequences and series, vectors, matrices, mathematical induction, and trigonometry elsewhere?
If not, I’d do pre-calc over the summer then Calculus.
@scubadive he can take classes at the college as part of a program with local high schools. Not sure if it’s considered dual enrollment. What would you suggest he continue on with for math classes at the college? I assume he will have to take calc again as a college freshman? Or wouldn’t he?
It depends on where he ends up for college. I would look at the transfer equivalency tables for your state flagship. It gives you a good barometer as to the level of the course. Its best to have advanced math as an engineering major even if it does not transfer. However state schools are more generous in credits.
@RichInPitt thank you for your thoughts. I will ask my son if he has covered those topics yet.
I am not so sure that this is the best path for a student preparing for college mathematics. Studies have shown that mastery of precalculus topics is more important than exposure to Calculus in high school when it comes to predicting success in college math courses.
I know someone who took a watered-down version of precalculus at a local community college over the summer in order to take Calculus senior year and the course had virtually none of the topics that RichInPitt itemized. (The precalculus course at the CC merely rehashed the typical Algebra 2 topics. Had the student taken the full-year precalculus in high school, he would have seen those topics.)
Another vote for not skipping ahead, especially for an engineering student. The stronger the foundation, the better. Take pre calc at the CC first.
http://math.buffalo.edu/rur/rurci3.cgi is another quiz that a student can use to check to see if s/he is ready for calculus.
In the long run, I guess being more solid by taking precalc is better…I’m really worried about my college math courses as I rushed through my previous courses to get where I am now. It comes down to whether you want to build a stronger foundation or looking better…it’s easy to do well in a calculus class and get a 5 without precalc, but it’s not worth it.
Check what is covered in pre-calc at the CC. It might not have the topics the full year high school course covers and it would be wise to be sure he has them prior to going into engineering. Many CCs don’t necessarily match courses. They can provide “easy” credits so one can move on with a different degree (nursing or similar) having the math credit. Be sure the class he takes is one for future engineers. Taking an “easy credit” version would be rather pointless for an engineering major. Even the high school where I work offers different levels of Pre-Calc.
One technically can learn everything they need on the fly in math classes, but the brain tends to know things better when it sees them once, then sees them again later. Alg 1 can seem tough at first, but as one uses Alg throughout later courses, one wonders how they ever thought it was difficult. All of the skills could be learned in Geometry, Alg 2, or even Calc, but that doesn’t mean it’s easy to learn so much at once. It can also be demoralizing to feel one is the only one not knowing the foundation - it makes students think they are dumb when it’s not true. They just haven’t seen the topics yet and have to cram all the info into a college paced course. That takes a dedicated student. It’s one thing to learn what everyone has to learn. It’s quite another to feel one is the only one having to learn the basics plus the new material.
Be sure any Calc class is also one for engineers. Even many 4 year schools offer different levels of Calc for engineers, math, or physics majors vs non-heavy math majors. Not all CCs offer the tougher version.
If your lad is good at math, he can self study the extra Pre-Calc topics (Kahn Academy can be a good source, but there are also others with videos for free online). If he can easily do problems he comes across he’s learned the math - no extra “formal” credit needed. Then he’d feel comfortable moving into Calc.
Spend some time on Google searching for syllabi for each course and comparing to what he would get in the courses at CC.
AP calculus is only an average college’s version, there are many schools that cover more in their college courses each semester. His HS class may prepare him for his college class. My son took both AP stats and AP calculus his senior year, then went on to the honors math sequence in college (still got that AP calc credit). He did not study for the SAT 2 math test like he should have because he said that fall they were reviewing the precalc math.
I suggest finding out what is covered in both the HS and local college versions of the math courses. Better to have a solid foundation than missing some things.
I would do pre-calc and calc for sure!
Thanks for all the opinions - he is going to do precalc first. Sounds like it’s the way to go.
Yeah, my school “recommends” everyone to take precalc before calc.