Do You REALLY Believe in Expensive Test-Prep Courses?

Test Preparation
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<p>^^Godot,</p>

<p>All joking aside, I'm glad you showed up on this thread, because you could answer a few of the questions I have raised earlier about SAT prep courses:</p>

<p>How does your guaranteed score increase taper off as the student's starting score goes up? You mentioned typical increases of 250-300 points for students starting at 1800 on the first diagnostic test, and gave one example where you are predicting a score increase of at least 210 for a student who started at 2140 (but who might be atypical). In particular, if a student scores 2300+ on the first diagnostic test, do you offer any guarantee?</p>

<p>If a student completes your program and goes from 1800 on the first diagnostic test to 2100 on the actual SAT, how much further above 2100 could you move that student in another 39 hours of tutoring (and over what time interval)?</p>

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<p>QuantMech,</p>

<p>Those are good questions. The score improvement guarantee depends on the length of the tutoring course. The most generous guarantees go with the longest courses, of course. Typically, we guarantee a 220-point improvement for a student starting with below an 1800 in a 30-hour course and a 280-point improvement for the same student in a 40-hour course. The guarantee for 1800+ scores tapers off, as you observed, until the 2300+ level, at which we guarantee a 30- or 40-point improvement (I have all the numbers in a file, which I don't have with me right now). For a starting score of 1900 in a 30-hour course, for example, the guarantee would be roughly a 2050+ (again, I am estimating the number) and perhaps a 2100+ in a 40-hour course. The guarantees, as you might expect, represent the lower ends of the expected final score ranges. </p>

<p>We can definitely improve the score for a student starting with a 2100 who has already done a first course with us. However, it would, in general, take more tutoring time to produce a similar increase the second time for 2 reasons: 1) the student is starting with a higher score and 2) the student has already been exposed to all of the strategies and techniques and achieved a good score increase, and it takes more work and time to uncover and address any subtle gaps, weaknesses, and issues he might still have, to break beyond the "plateau," and to fine-tune and perfect his approaches to various question types. In principle, there is really no limit to how high a student starting with a 2100, even in a second course, can score at the end of the course. Typically, I would expect such a student to score at least a 2250 or so in 30 hours or more of tutoring in a second course. Ideally, the course would run for about 7 to 10 weeks.</p>

<p>By the way, the "39 hours" figure applied to the classroom courses we ran.</p>

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<p>You might want to check out the date the results were taken on the study you posted (first post). It was so long ago, I'm sure test prep courses have improved since then.</p>

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<p>I must admit that I'm surprised by the increases that Godot's coaching can produce, particularly if a student who scores 1800 on the first test could score 2250 less than 6 months later. Admittedly, when I checked the composite score tables (a moment ago) on a link provided (some time ago, on another thread) by tokenadult, I was also surprised that a score of 1800 put a student in the 81st %ile--so maybe moving from the 81st %ile to the 99th is not so surprising. Still . . . this considerably undermines my confidence in the significance of SAT scores. </p>

<p>It seems to me that College Board needs to work a LOT harder to be less predictable, in terms of the questions. </p>

<p>I wonder, Godot, when you are coaching students individually, do you perceive any academic difference between the students who have originally scored 1800 vs. those who have originally scored 2100? or 2300?</p>

<p>Also, is anyone up for a straw poll? Namely, among 2300+ scorers you know, did the student take a prep course or not? (No statistical significance, but I'd be interested in increasing the "N" in my anecdotal evidence.)</p>

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<p>at the start yes...now NO!!!!!!!!</p>

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<p>A few more questions, mainly for Godot:</p>

<p>Do you observe significant differences in "coachability" among the students with whom you work?</p>

<p>Also, do you find that your students have a substantial reservoir of knowledge that they are not putting to use on the SAT, so that they simply need to be alerted to it? For instance, I doubt that you are teaching geometry from scratch; but before you work with them, perhaps the students are overlooking the applicability of concepts they already understand or leaping to ill-founded conclusions? (I'm not referring to background knowledge for the reading passages sections in CR, where its application could be counterproductive!) </p>

<p>College Board definitely has a few hobbyhorses that they ride frequently.</p>

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<p>Test prep course helped me raise my score by ~300 points
But really if u have motivation and consistency, you can study for SAT yourself. All test prep does is force you to take practice tests and give a few tips...but it was worth it for me</p>

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<p>QuantMech,</p>

<p>Virtually all tests are coachable, including so-called "IQ tests." The SAT is no exception. You should not take that to mean, however, that the SAT does not measure any real skills or knowledge. Unlike some tutors or courses who purportedly primarily aim to give their students a broad real "education," requiring a lot of time and money on the part of their clients, and raise SAT scores as a side benefit, I teach to the test. That's why I call what I do "SAT tutoring" and not "English tutoring," "math tutoring," or anything else. Nevertheless, I would argue that, in the process, my students do indeed pick up some valuable and lasting academic (and "real-world") skills and knowledge. For example, the vocabulary that my students learn to succeed on the SAT also help in school and the real world. My students also learn or refresh math content in learning how to tackle certain question types. As imperfect a measure as the SAT essay is, I believe my students do become better writers after receiving and absorbing my numerous edits and suggestions for improving the essay. One student told me, as limited as the grammar is on the SAT, that she had never learned grammar properly and well until we spent the hour or two discussing various grammatical principles and errors. Some courses emphasize "tricks" and "strategies" exclusively. While these can definitely be effective and I teach all the useful ones, I emphasize knowing the actual content as well. I've also had students tell me that they had gotten stronger in their math courses in school because of the tutoring. In these cases, it's just not the strict content that helped (and it probably didn't, since we are talking about more advanced math courses here); it's the skills and ways of looking at and tackling tough math questions that benefited the student outside the arena of the SAT.</p>

<p>These experiences lead me to believe that it should not always be an indictment of the test to say that the SAT is coachable. Under certain conditions, the students may truly be becoming stronger students, particularly in the knowledge and skills tested on the SAT. It's not always just a matter of "beating" or "outwitting" the test.</p>

<p>There are certainly some academic differences among students who start in different score ranges. A student starting with a 2100, in general, has better grades than a student starting with an 1800. This should, of course, make complete sense, since SAT scores correlate with GPAs. However, there are definitely exceptions or "outliers," as one poster called it. I have definitely worked with some students who are very bright and had excellent grades who did not excel at the SAT originally, for various reasons. It's quite gratifying to work with such students and see them achieve significant score improvements and often extremely high final scores (top 1 or 2%).</p>

<p>There are some small differences in "coachability" among students. Some students can achieve 300+-point improvements with relative ease, while others are "only" able to improve by 200 to 250 points in 2 to 3 months. Low scorers generally improve by bigger margins than high scorers, for obvious reasons. Test anxiety can also unfortunately play a role, sometimes a significant one, in eroding a student's final scores. In other words, sometimes a student can perform extremely well in the course and achieve great improvements on the diagnostic tests (mine are all College Board exams, by the way), but then "underperform" on Test Day and drop by 100 points or more (which is certainly statistically significant) in the composite score on the actual exam from their best or final diagnostic test results seemingly inexplicably. Such an experience can be particularly frustrating for both the student and the tutor. Thankfully, I believe I have figured out effective solutions to combat this issue. Not surprisingly, this issue affects lower scorers much more frequently than higher scorers.</p>

<p>Beyond these small differences and issues, however, I contend that every student is quite coachable. Not every student is able to score a 2300+, even with significant preparation. But I strongly believe that virtually any student can achieve at least a 2100-2200, given that the student is motivated enough and prepares for a significant amount of time (keep in mind that this time frame may be a year or more for some students).</p>

<p>Finally, I would be willing to bet that most 2300+ scorers did not take an SAT preparation course, primarily because most very high scorers (2100+) do not feel that they need a preparation course or that a course would really help (a good assumption in most cases) and because most courses or tutors are simply not sufficiently competent to raise an already very high score to an even higher score!</p>

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<p>Thanks, Godot, for providing your perspective--it is quite interesting.</p>

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<p>not in the large classes that advocate their own "strategies" (such as don't read the questions when you choose the answers!), but I think 1-on-1 tutoring can certainly help by focusing on the person's problem areas.</p>

<p>& if anyone in the nj area wants tutoring they can always contact me...lol</p>

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<p>No, I don't. I think it's a waste of time to teach yourself a specific set of skills for one test rather than develop over time the general knowledge and abilities that you need to do well on the SAT, or any test. Sure, you may drill yourself into getting a great SAT score, but it won't do you any good to have spent your time like that once you've done well on your Collegeboard tests. </p>

<p>My family couldn't afford tutors or prep classes. I retook the SAT once, and am satisfied with my 2200.</p>

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<p>The sticker price of many colleges approaches $200,000 these days, and that's for some not-so-selective schools just as well as for the more selective schools (who often offer far better financial aid, actually). So it's hard to see almost any course or tutor as truly "expensive", when your safety and reach schools are equally expensive and you will be spending four extremely important years there, years that will determine a great deal who you become later. I know there are some folks who say "this test prep is all b.s." or "I don't want my kid to be so obsessed with these tests" but unfortunately they aren't aware of the reality of test taking. Students who walk in to these tests unprepared are taking a pretty big gamble with their future, especially those who take the SAT for the first time in fall of their senior year of high school, when it is too late to retake. Some will of course do well, but this is not the kind of thing you ought to find out by chance at the last minute.
Like it or not, standardized tests are a major factor in admissions. You would have to be fairly clueless in this day and age to not do some kind of preparation or at least self-diagnosis with an actual SAT. When I took the SAT, I had never heard of test prep courses and tutors (mea culpa), but it is hard to believe that is true of many students and parents today, who are far better informed on this kind of thing.
However, it is rather difficult for someone to be an informed consumer about such a truly arcane product as "test prep tutor." The best way to find a good tutor or course is to ask around. More on that below.
In my experience, the factors that tend to influence score improvement the most are:
1. The amount of appropriate practice that the student does.
2. The amount of instruction given
3. The length of time over which the tutoring/course takes place
4. The caliber of the tutor.
In detail:
1. Students who do not practice and master the test whether because of their other commitments or lack of effort will not do anywhere near as well as those who do, period. For this reason, I discontinue working with clients who after repeated warnings will not make this a priority, in favor of others who will, and will see the results. Students who do not practice on real College Board materials will not know what hit them on test day.
2. Signing up for 2 hours of PSAT tutoring the day before the PSAT is not going to help much, if at all. Sorry.
3. These reasoning tests are the least crammable. I'm changing people's instincts. A gradual, relaxed schedule of tutoring on a regular basis will prevent it from interfering with the students other commitments. These students see what some would term "impossible" score improvements.
4. Of course, this is difficult to determine. Good questions to ask are: When was the last time you took the SAT? What trends do you see on recent tests? What do you think the SAT tests? What are some recent score improvements your students have attained? You should ask for specific starting scores and final scores. However, I do not reveal the individual names of my own students, so I would not expect another tutor to violate that confidentiality (which is demanded by some clients, and automatically extended to the rest). But of course the best way to find a tutor as I said, is to ask around. If several other people had a good experience and great results, then that's probably the best way of landing a top tutor. So do your research. A tutor should have at least thought about the questions above enough to articulate their philosophy and results. Of course, if the tutor has published some best-selling books on standardized tests or developed the most widely-used SAT and some other programs in the country, they might have a clue what they are talking about, too.
This is perhaps slightly off-topic for this thread:
The exception for me (and I tutor for a dozen exams) is SSAT, ISEE, and GMAT. For some reason, last-minute SSAT/ISEE tutoring of students who do very little practice seems to always net unbelievable score improvements. It shouldn't bother me, I suppose. I'm guessing that these students have a major edge compared to others taking those exams.
And motivated GMAT students who focus on GMAT for a week and a half (always an emergency retake) see score improvements of 40, 70, 100 points routinely. I guess they focus well, and treat the prep like their job depended on it. Their future job might.</p>

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<p>I am sure I am likely just reemphasizing all that has been said before, but I feel it's important.</p>

<p>I took the SAT three times. The first two times, my superscore varied just ten points. I had tried to read review books, take practice quizzes, etc., but I was getting frustrated and overwhelmed.</p>

<p>My father tried to insist I take an expensive Princeton Review course, but I had neither the time nor the money to do such a thing. When taking the test the third time, I merely relaxed, slept, ate breakfast, etc. I took it all in stride and simply reminded myself that it was the final time I would take the test.</p>

<p>My score went up 150 points and edged near perfect. I was so relieved.</p>

<p>So, my advice, from personal experience?</p>

<p>Don't take the super-expensive prep courses. READ, READ, READ. Do the free practice quizzes and questions on Collegeboard.com or purchase the Sparksnotes SAT review book. It's funny, interesting, and incredibly helpful. Then breathe. Eat. Relax.</p>

<p>Godot wrote: "Finally, I would be willing to bet that most 2300+ scorers did not take an SAT preparation course, primarily because most very high scorers (2100+) do not feel that they need a preparation course or that a course would really help (a good assumption in most cases) and because most courses or tutors are simply not sufficiently competent to raise an already very high score to an even higher score!"</p>

<p>It's wholly correct. There's only so much preparation you can do for a standarized test like that. I didn't take a course, and I'm very glad I didn't.</p>

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<p>my school district provides PR classes for free. the only real benefit that i've gotten from them is that the practice tests are under similar conditions and the math parts are a bit less foggy due to explanation by the tutor. to be honest, i wouldnt pay full price for a class, i barely even feel like going to one every saturday morning.</p>

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<p>Not all "tricks" taught by SAT tutors are <em>just</em> test-taking strategies; many of them (especially in math) are just effective and efficient ways of tackling problems.</p>

<p>I don't think it's "teaching to the test" to say that a reading comp. question asking about a "broad" aspect of the passage (theme, author's purpose, overall message) will generally have a "broad" (not specific) answer. A question asking about a particular piece of evidence used to support a larger idea, however, will generally require a "specific" answer. Pointing out the difference helps students recognize and appreciate the different "levels" of thoughts in a text, how ideas are related, how some are only subsets of others etc. "Tricks" like these are really just ways to emphasize how students should be approaching anything they read.</p>

<p>Similarly, math questions in the form "If x + 2y = 5, y + 2z = 10, 2x + z = 12 then what is the value of x + y + z?" are exceptionally common on the SAT, but maybe not taught in a student's regular high school math class. A tutor knows this, and prepares her students appropriately by teaching <em>math</em> tricks, not <em>test</em> tricks.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned way back on the first page that any kind of prep is cheating, and that the test should only measure "what you have learned." If you made the decision to "learn more" on your own, does it not count as what you have learned?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you made the decision to "learn more" on your own, does it not count as what you have learned?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's a very good question. It is certainly not cheating to read through the test description book before you first take a standardized test, nor to take an official practice test under actual timed conditions. Both of these forms of preparation help test-takers obtain higher scores. Anyone could do those things.</p>

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<p>It is also not cheating to material outside material before taking a test on any subject at school. My daughter received tutoring for Trigonometry last year, and the tutor had her doing practice problems the weekend before each test. The problems came from a text the tutor had. The school was (of course) fine with this. How is SAT prep any different?</p>

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<p>I must admit that I took the SAT prep classes. My family is in the "low-income level," but my parents felt that the classes and the money were worth it to get into a good university even though it required saving up for the expenses. I improved my score by 600 points and I only attended the courses for half a year, so I guess I am one of the lucky ones. </p>

<p>I don't think it was the actual classes that helped. The practice exams for those few weeks were the main source of aid. But I do know others who did not even take classes who did fine using Prep Books and scored over 2000, so it really depends on how you prefer to study.</p>

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<p>I know most people are against it, but if you have the money and you're willing to spend it, I'd highly recommend doing it.</p>

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<p>With the competing time demands of high school coursework, extracurricular activities and jobs, as well as the average teen's natural propensity to slackerdom, it takes an extraordinarily self-motivated and focused student to be able to prep adequately on his or her own.</p>