Do you think high schools ever evaluate teachers based on student's AP scores?

Parents Forum
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<p>My son took 5 AP classes last year which was 2 too many. We predicted that he would get one of every grade (a 1, a 2, a 3, a 4 and a 5) and we were right. The 2, 3, 4 and 5 correlate with the grades he got in the corresponding class. However, he got an A in AP Comp Sci and a 1 on the exam. He wasn't surprised because they all learned how to program but didn't have a clue as to how to take a test on programming. </p>

<p>On one hand, I'm happy for my son's heavily weighted A in the class. However, it seems like if the teacher isn't willing to teach such that his A students can pass the AP exam, the class should just be Computer Programming II instead of AP Comp. Sci.</p>

<p>Do you think teachers are ever evaluated based on their students' AP scores? With tenure and a fixed pay scale, it doesn't seem like it.</p>

2

<p>I couldn't agree more. My D got a 2 (!!) in US History, after getting an A- in the class, as well as college credit for the class from a local top-25 LAC. Now I am wishing I had checked the teacher's track record for AP test scores. My D tried to warn me, saying that she didn't think the teacher was very good, and that not many kids in her class were taking the AP test. Maybe they (and their parents) knew something we didn't.</p>

3

<p>I doubt if my sons' high school does it. They have football coaches teaching AP Econ and AP Govt. Both my sons got A's in both classes, but S1 got a 2 on the AP exams and S2 got a 1 on Govt. and a 2 on Econ. It has been this way for at least 5 years there. The valedictorian, salutatorian and outstanding social studies award winners all got 1s on the AP exams, along with the rest of the bright kids. That should be enough to tell the administration that something's very wrong, but they don't seem to care. This is a private Catholic school, by the way, not a public.</p>

<p>The school makes the kids take the AP exam if they take the course, and you need to take the AP course if the guidance counselor is going to say that you took the most rigorous courseload offered. That was $80-someodd bucks down the drain - 4 times.</p>

4

<p>In our district, if you don't take the AP exam you have to take the "district exam" that apparantly no one ever passes, and that grade counts as a test grade in your class. So maybe it's worth paying $80 so as not to ruin the GPA.</p>

5

<p>D2's school definitely does look at student AP scores. D took AP chem her sophmore year, got an A- in the class but a 2 on the exam. Apparently out of 2 class sections there was only 1 score of 5 and 2 4's that year (out of 28 kids). Teacher warned to "tighten up" his grading and make his tests/homework more relevant to the AP exam or face possible reassignment/dismissal. AP scores the next year were better and class grades were lower.</p>

<p>Her school takes AP scores very seriously and any who wants to keep his/her job had better see lots of 3's above.</p>

<p>And except for the chem, D's AP exams and class grades have tracked pretty closely.</p>

6

<p>At my high school, there were some APs that people always passed (English - our teacher was incredible) and some that you had to work really hard to pass (US History - I got a 5, I studied a lot, my teacher was an amazing teacher but he wasn't so concerned about teaching to the test that he let it get in the way of teaching the material, which might have been why others didn't do so well) and some that hardly anyone had a hope of passed (Chem). I liked how this was dealt with because I HATE the AP program and I think it's a waste of time and money. I would rather learn material than learn to take a test...</p>

7

<p>In our district, if you don't take the AP exam and don't otherwise qualify to be exempt from the final (certain number of exams if you are in that grade and no more than x number of absences and an A average) then you take the class final. Sometimes alone. Might not make the teacher grade lightly. I felt like I was paying $80 for D to take a physics test we knew she hadn't been prepared for just to not have the final on her graded transcript.
AP is a double-edged sword at best!</p>

8

<p>I work for a school district, and they definitely track how successful AP teachers are.</p>

9

<p>All the AP classes my kids have taken so far the teachers have told us that 75% or so of the kids get 4s and 5s. My younger son didn't think much of his AP World History teacher this year and says it's the students as much as the teachers that account for the results. I'm curious to see how he does as he was not at all happy with the exam.</p>

10

<p>One of my kids' schools posts the % of people earning each score for each exam on the parent listserve. (Talk about a critical audience!) The teachers got copies of the reports so they could see how the kids did. (From a post last year, it seems this is an extra service a school can choose to buy from CB. Surprised? ;)) S1's 12th grade English teacher knew his AP Comp score from junior year, and she was a brand new teacher in the system. The teachers are very aware that student success on the APs reflects on them (justifiably or not).</p>

<p>The stats also show up on the school report sent out to colleges, so we knew early on from looking at prior years' charts, that certain teachers had classes where 90+% of the students got 5s.</p>

11

<p>I know my school keeps track of the AP/regents scores for the teachers. I think there are pay incentives for higher scoring, in addition to disciplinary action to teachers whose students score poorly. I don't have concrete data to back this up, but my government teacher gave us a bit of an overview of this reality when bright students, overburdened with 4 or 5 tests, blew off the AP Gov test and were quite convinced that they had failed. He was very concerned and upset because he said he could potentially even be fired if his students inexplicably scored poorly. </p>

<p>My little brother's chemistry teacher was also very concerned with their low regents grades this year, though I'm not sure if that was an example of disappointment in herself/her students or a fear of disciplinary action. Finally, apparently my Math A teacher was fired at the end of the year because almost none of her Math B students passed the regents.</p>

<p>So basically, not exactly scientific evidence here, and a lot of rumor/hearsay, but it does seem to support that my school actually does surprisingly make an effort.</p>

12

<p>The schools mentioned in the first few posts -- how have they fared after College Board's audit of all AP courses?</p>

<p>I wish parents knew more in my school system -- at the high school open house most teachers tell parents what percentage of kids "passed" the AP exam (which is defined as a 3 or above). That's not really useful information. I would like to see the score distribution. But of course they like to hide anything that would give an inkling of the teacher's competency....contrast this to how they plaster any and all SAT and ACT scores on the first page of the student's transcript! I would surely like to see more transparent indications of teachers' competency, rather than students' hearsay!</p>

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<p>At our HS AP results play the key role in which teachers get assigned to teach the AP classes. Performance to at least match the grading is expected or someone else will get the job.</p>

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<p>Teachers at my school almost always got all 3s or better. I remember both my Calc AB had around 50% 5s, 40% 4s, and 10% 3s. BC was even better where nobody got a 3, and I'd say at least 75% of us got 5s.</p>

<p>Some of the other courses were a little more sketchy. Like, for AP Euro, we had three different teachers. One had most of his students getting 5s on the exam. One wound up with mostly 4s. And the third one's students usually landed in the 3 range. Sadly enough, the teachers that wound up getting the lowest scoring students often gave out the most homework. I had the "bad" Euro teacher and I remember our homework assignments were just copying pages out of the textbook. Class was just writing down word for word what she said (she'd actually inspect our notes after class and we'd get extra homework if we hadn't written it all down). Then, the day before the Euro exam, we were looking through one of those review books to help us study, and we found passages that were identical to our notes.</p>

<p>I'd say most of my grades matched up pretty well to what I got on AP exams, though. In most classes where I got an A I got a 5, and in classes where I got a B it was a 4.</p>

15

<p>As a veteran of both both public and private school AP classes in Georgia, I continue to be amazed at what I believe is the lack appropriate evaluation by school systems ( and especially individual schools) for a teacher's expertise and ability to teach Advanced Placement courses. Our twins spent the first two years of high school in one of the "best" public schools in Georgia-that school did not publish individual teacher's AP exam rates and the course content for the exact same subject varied enormously between teachers. Throw in that wonderful variable of block scheduling and scores became even harder to compare school to school across districts, let alone states. For example-it is my understanding the CB has said quietly and off the record for some time that APWH and APUSH are do not lend themselves to block scheduling instruction-yet schools persist in this endeavor and wonder why kids have trouble scoring well on the exam. The state of Georgia encourages schools to offer AP classes to as many kids as possible and rewards schools where the number of kids taking the exams exceeds a certain a percentage of enrollment. while there maybe benefits to that approach, I struggle to believe schools have an adequate number of teachers trained for the AP subjects they currently offer. </p>

<p>When our kids transferred to private Catholic school for their junior and senior year, I was delighted with their classroom instruction and impressed with the number of teachers who were doctorally prepared in their fields. However, as the time for AP exams drew near, I realized our kids had spent little or no time writing DBQ's, COT's, and other essay questions. </p>

<p>Our kid's grades were in no way congruent with their AP scores, nor do I believe their AP scores reflect their knowledge of the subject. For example, both kids took APWH as sophomores, and continue to impress me to this day with their knowledge of sub-saharan African cultures, the Ottoman empire, etc. -but their scores respectively were a 3 and 2. The teacher who taught my son APWH I consider one of the finest classroom teachers either child has ever had-but I do not believe APWH can be effectively taught on block scheduling -nor can a student take the course in the Fall semester and hope to do well on the test in early May without intense review.</p>

<p>At the private Catholic school our kids just graduated from, school REQUIRED all seniors to take and pass a CLEP exam closely aligned with their AP class in order for the transcript sent to their college to reflect the AP designation ( seemed liked a CYA move to me ). Kids passed designated CLEP exams in the 70+ range and today we learned this years AP scores- posted along with grades:</p>

<p>2008: Student I: English Lang 2 Grade : 100 Student II 3 Grade: 93
Student I Psychology : 3 Grade: 100 Student II 2 Grade: 85</p>

<p>2007: Student I US Govt and Politics AP score 2 Grade: 99, AP Engllish Lit: 3 Grade 100</p>

<p>Student II US Govt and Politics AP scores 2 Grade 99, Ap English Lit 3 Grade 99</p>

<p>Also, the AP audit process begun in the past several years by the CB, focuses on lesson plans-which is process based. To be truly effective, the CB needs an evaluation that looks at each teacher's preparation, CE and outcomes throughout the year as well as scores.</p>

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<p>They should. I agree with the posts elaborating this. Teachers who are teaching AP courses have the obligation to cover the material of such courses so that the kid can do well on the exam. A school that has a lot of students doing poorly on the AP tests, are doing their top students a disfavor in that their grades may be looked upon as being earned in "easy" courses that do not compare with other rigorous schools. A teacher who raves about how a student is the best she ever had does not hold much water when the kid gets a 1,2, or even 3 on the AP exam for that subject unless there is some reason for it other than sloppy teaching.</p>

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<p>Thanks to CC, the first thing I asked my D's AP teacher was how last years students did. The did not do well; he was honest and concerned. But he was new, AP's are new and limited in this tiny Christian school, and frankly, they are just trying to keep up with demands of people like ...me... Is measuring by AP test scores in the students best interest? Why wouldn't teachers just refuse to take on AP classes? I suppose kids at my D's school used to be able to say "no AP's offered" (now there are 4).</p>

18

<p>Last year our district began requiring students to take the tests for all AP classes taken. French students have not done well, and D said there is a rumor they may be assigning AP French to a different teacher next year. French is a very difficult test, D got a 2 on it, which is the only grade less than a 4 that she got on all her tests. She did not feel well prepared.</p>

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<p>My s's school (private) doesn't let kids sign up for an AP class if they dont think they'll do well onthe exam (they dont directly admit that, but its pretty well known to be true, especially since there arent enough spots in the AP classes for all who want to take them, so you have to be academically "prepared" or have had prereqs to take them). And yes, tehy definitely watch the scores the students get and the teachers who teach the classes.</p>

20

<p>In our district, they plan to remove AB calculus from the teacher who has been teaching it for many years. Why? Well, the best score that he has ever had is a 3. He claims that the kids are ill-prepared to be in the AB class, and one student, who took BC at a community college and got a 5 on the exam, agrees with the teacher. The kids are unprepared to take on the rigor of the class. You cannot blame the teacher, but he is the fall guy. The problems in math did not start in his class. All the math teachers claim the same thing -- the kids are not prepared. But the English and social studies teachers have incredible success on the APs.</p>