Do you think I ended up the way I did thanks to my Ethnic Background?

College Confidential Community
41

<p>The Jayson Blair defense, huh?</p>

<p>I tend to think that “the way you ended up” has more to do with some fundamental misunderstandings about the way the world works than with affirmative action. You consistently come off to me as someone who:</p>

<p>(1) believes that you are entitled to certain things because of who you are (what your potential was, what school you attended, what your major was) rather than because of what you do (and in particular because of the way you do or don’t “sell” yourself).</p>

<p>(2) doesn’t do the work that other people expect you to do if you aren’t specifically directed to do it (making an effort in English class, doing much of anything beyond coursework in college, starting your job search early).</p>

<p>(3) interprets people’s reactions to your failure to do that work (your English teacher’s suggestion that you go to a community college, your career advisor’s comment that other people aren’t looking for jobs <em>after</em> graduation) as comments about the kind of person you are.</p>

<p>(4) obsesses about whether you are the kind of person who is entitled to the things you want (see (1)) given the kinds of reactions you’re getting (see (3)) instead of taking action to change your situation (see (2)). (This seems to be the point of this thread.)</p>

<p>(5) measures success strictly in financial and test-score terms.</p>

<p>I suggest that you start focusing on figuring out what you need to be doing that you’re not doing, and then doing it. Drop the sense of entitlement (“I don’t have as much as slackers”/“my English teacher should have known I turned in substandard work because I am gifted at something else, not because I couldn’t have done better if I wanted”), the obsession with other people’s judgments (“my English instructor suggested a 2-year school”/“my career counselor asked how I got in here”), the emphasis on money (“I should have been a construction worker”/“the best job I can get is $16/hr”), and start worrying about how to excel in all areas of your work whether or not you’ve been explicitly told about each and every one. Focus especially on the parts that are most interesting to you (even if nothing is very interesting). When you have a job and you are excelling at it (and have been for awhile) you will have an easier time getting a different, better (according to whatever your criteria are) job, with the same company or elsewhere. When you have been excelling at that one for awhile you will have an easier time getting an even better job. And whatever you do, do not tell the people you work with and for any of your little anecdotes about what a failure everyone thinks you are. If you are going to tell everyone you’re a failure they will tend to believe you. After all, who spends more time with you than you yourself?</p>

<p>I dare you to make your next post here about something you’ve done recently that you feel is quite an achievement. (Having other people recognize that you’re a wonderful brilliant person even though you refuse to act like one is not an achievement.) Even if it’s “only” rewriting your resume to leave out the parts about “not college material” and then sending it to 11 companies who have jobs you think you’d like to do. Even if it’s “only” a decision to volunteer with an organization that does work you believe in, so that you’ll have meaningful work even if the work that pays the bill isn’t meaningful. Even if it’s “only” asking your supervisor what are the top 5 things you could do to improve your job performance and then doing them. Even if it’s “only” getting a book on a really interesting math topic and reading it on the bus to and from work every day.</p>

<p>And even though I get why you’d phrase it as “the way I ended up” I suggest that you keep in mind that you’re going to keep growing and changing throughout your entire life – it’s “the way I am at the moment” and not “the way I am now and will forever be.” You are the only one who can change your life for the better, so you might as well roll up your sleeves and get started.</p>

42

<p>nontraditional, after spending so much time arguing with people who can’t read me properly, it’s refreshing to read a post like yours. I’m impressed by your level of insight into the way my mind works. How were you able to read me so well? Are/were you a psychology student by any chance?</p>

<p>There is a another point I’d like to explore, if you don’t mind. Why did I fail to figure out/accept how the world works?</p>

43

<p>If I have any insight, it’s probably the result of age and of encountering a lot of people (including myself) who are similar to you in one or more ways. I’ve had maybe 3 psychology classes, all of them at the freshman level, over the years, and I only remember one clearly. It’s not a subject that interests me very much, but I’ll probably have to take at least a handful more courses in the next few years.</p>

<p>As far as why you failed to figure it all out, I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with you not being socialized into mainstream American society from a very early age (since “the world” doesn’t work the same everywhere and since you seem to have been saying you didn’t start speaking English until later on in your childhood). Maybe it has something to do with paying attention primarily to how the K-12 system works (you were more successful there, right?) and never catching on that you needed to learn a new system when you graduated. Maybe it has something to do with not picking up on these things unless they’re presented explicitly (there’s not a lot of subtext to contend with in math and computer science, but the rules for appealing to potential employers are not presented as axioms). Maybe it has something to do with the world not working the way you think it ought to work and you focusing more on how it ought to be.</p>

<p>But I think you’re doing it backwards again. This is just one more question about what kind of person you are. (“I am the kind of person who has had trouble learning how the world works because …”) Try to figure out how the world works. Be creative in your methods. You will get better at using your new knowledge to obtain things that you want. Along the way you will also learn something about how you learn best about the world and about the exact nature of your misunderstandings. Then you can ask yourself whether your new knowledge about yourself sheds any light on the question of why you didn’t learn it earlier.</p>

44

<p>$16 an hour (if you are salaried) is about $33,000 per year. That is NOT unusual for a BA/BS with no work experience. That is higher than the average humanities & social science majors, more than graphic and performing Arts majors, and more than teaching according to the latest NACE (national assoc of colleges and employers). It is not significantly lower than a half dozen other majors I can list. It is only slightly lower than the national average for Ba/BS graduates in math/statistics and it could have everything to do with where you are living and what TYPE of company you are working for as the numbers I’m looking at are average across the nation and across various types of companies. The average starting offer for a Master’s degreed Math major with statistical and actuarial experience was only $51,000. You need to get a grip, you have multiple threads going on this topic and there has been plenty of heartfelt advice.</p>

45

<p>Go read Notes from Underground.</p>

46

<p>arbiter213, you are not the first person to suggest I might like Dostoyevsky :)</p>

47

<p>
[QUOTE=momofthreeboys]

$16 an hour (if you are salaried) is about $33,000 per year. That is NOT unusual for a BA/BS with no work experience. That is higher than the average humanities & social science majors, more than graphic and performing Arts majors, and more than teaching according to the latest NACE (national assoc of colleges and employers). It is not significantly lower than a half dozen other majors I can list. It is only slightly lower than the national average for Ba/BS graduates in math/statistics and it could have everything to do with where you are living and what TYPE of company you are working for as the numbers I’m looking at are average across the nation and across various types of companies. The average starting offer for a Master’s degreed Math major with statistical and actuarial experience was only $51,000. You need to get a grip, you have multiple threads going on this topic and there has been plenty of heartfelt advice.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am not going to go to grad school to get a master’s in math just so I can qualify for jobs that pay $51,000, given that I was actually invited to interviews for jobs that pay more than that amount of money and that’s just with a bachelor’s degree. The problem is, I didn’t get the jobs, and I doubt that a master’s degree will compensate for whatever it is that I am missing that prevented me from getting those jobs.</p>

48

<p>Jeez, Moire, just make one single thread called “Moire’s Craptastical Life and The Possible Excuses for It”</p>

49

<p>No, I don’t think it’s your ethnic background</p>

50

<p>“Why did I fail to figure out/accept how the world works?”</p>

<p>This sounds like depression, especially trying to get someone in the psychology field to speak with you. Why not see a real pro?</p>

51

<p>Jeez, my son graduated almost a year ago from a great school, from a great program and he’s only making TWELVE dollars an hour, parttime, no benefits! Quit your beefing@! And his personality is a lot better than yours I’m guessing. His problem is he did no internships during school, which I think all schools should have, which would give the student some type of experience in their majors workforce. After he graduated, he did an internship. But he hasn’t given up hope and the job he is at now affords him the opportunity to interview at other places, which he is really doing right now. And he was virtually unemployed after graduation for almost 6 months. I don’t think it’s your ethnicity, but in the job world it’s really a crapshoot sometimes who gets the job. And as I often say, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know! Keep plugging, you are not the only underpaid freshly minted grad out there.</p>

52

<p>
[QUOTE=4321234]

This sounds like depression, especially trying to get someone in the psychology field to speak with you. Why not see a real pro?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Questionable social skills = depression. Ok, wonderful.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=bogart]

Jeez, my son graduated almost a year ago from a great school, from a great program and he’s only making TWELVE dollars an hour, parttime, no benefits!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What was his major and GPA?</p>

<p>By the way, I made less than $12/hour, no benefits, out of college.</p>

53

<p>One thing i must say is that i am in total agreement with everyone: it’s your major. That was the mistake.</p>

<p>Also, before you blame your race i think you should know that in my very small town some of the most predominant families are of a diverse ethnic background.</p>

<p>We have a family from Lebanon who have three amazing, kind, outspoken, beautiful and all around kind daughters. Their father works for the US Gov. doing what… I’m not sure, and their mom teaches ESL to Spanish students at my old high school. They have a nice home, drive nice cars, and are probably the most decent people i have ever met. Because they worked through their difference and made a better life for themselves.</p>

<p>We have a mixed family, the father is black, the mother is white, making the three kids mixed. They’re the only family in town that is black, and their two oldest sons are some of the hardest working young men because as one put it to me, ‘I’m not going to be a black man who has to blame his race for his failure, it’s just something that will make me stand out, not apart’</p>

<p>We have several hispanic families that contribute a great deal to our community, and also one family that is mixed filipino and guamanian. very beautiful children in that family.</p>

<p>All of these people are so much more sucessful then the dead-beat redneck white folks in town. Although, that can be anywhere.</p>

54

<p>

</p>

<p>Erm… maybe your freaking whiney attitude contributed to your failure in obtaining these jobs, or maybe someone with a masters degree came along.</p>

<p>No matter what i do, i will get my masters, just for the simple fact that your education is more thorough.</p>

55

<p>Get a master’s if you want. You will be $100,000 poorer. That’s all.</p>

56

<p>My education is important to me. I am very willing to spend the money on it. Unlike some whiney a------ here.</p>

57

<p>I’m going for my Masters and I consider it as investing in myself. I hope to go from Masters to PhD program at a good school, so I’ll see in a year or two if that investment pays off.</p>

<p>To me, it seems Moire thinks that if he invested in himself, he’d be backing a loser, which seems to be the root of his problem, his self-image. Why would anyone hire a guy who thinks that his Math degree is worthless? If you think its worthless, why would anyone want to pay good money for you to work for them!</p>

<p>On the ethnicity part, I doubt its the reason why you ended up where you are, unless there are no people out there with your ethnic makeup with good paying jobs.</p>

58

<p>I think you are the way you are because you are canadian, eh?!</p>

59

<p>“During my four years in undergraduate school I did not participate in extracurricular activities or held a part time job. I majored in math, graduated with a 3.5 GPA, and made the honor roll almost every semester.”</p>

<p>Moire -
What sort of jobs are you applying for? Are they jobs that require a bachelor’s degree in math?</p>

<p>Also, what did you do during the summers? Anything that might help you with your job hunt?</p>

60

<p>It is certainly possible that your ethnicity contributes to your inability to get the higher paying jobs. I doubt that it is the whole reason. You may not be looking in the right places, taking the right routes, and not interviewing well. Throw in your ethnicity, and it can be a problem. </p>

<p>Most math majors can find jobs as analysts at low wages and make more money as they gain skills. Sometimes there is a formal route up the ladder, such as actuarial exams. I don’t know a single ethnic group not represented in any number of jobs where math skills are strong.</p>