Do you think there should be a limit to the number of schools one can apply to?

Parents Forum
61

The rankings are what jump-started the push for school’s to increase their selectivity. And even if it’s not currently part of the rankings, the schools still like being considered “highly selective.”

The colleges are pretty good about figuring out who is unlikely to attend and not admitting them. That’s why they use demonstrated interest - it’s hard to show true interest in 20 schools.

To look at some numbers, I picked NYU because it’s selective but not Ivy level selective. For the 2014 freshman class, they had about 50,700 applicants, 18,000 acceptances (35%) and 5,800 enrolled (32% yield). For the 2018 freshman class, they had about 71,800 applicants, 14,300 acceptances (20%), and 6,100 enrolled (43%). So they had an increase of 20,000 applicants (40%) but accepted almost 4,000 fewer (20%), and had a much higher yield. All numbers taken from their CDS.

So no, colleges don’t have at accept more students when they have a significant increase in applications. Obviously the numbers are different for every school and maybe some have needed to increase their acceptances, but it’s certainly not a “must.”

62

It’s a completely absurd comparison. You never know what an employer is looking for. You have a very good idea of what colleges are looking for in their applicants, and what your chances are if you meet those requirements. Anyone who applies to 8 or 10 colleges and didn’t get in to any of them didn’t do a very good job in researching them. Or received really bad advice.

63

Ivies and some T20s are perfect for poor kids with high stats. Several meet full need. The others are pretty generous.

64

At most levels, it would be impractical to enforce a maximum limit. Ignoring practicality issues, I don’t think number of college applications is something colleges, high schools, the government, or other external agency should determine. Instead the best number of applications varies wildly between different students in different situations, and as such, individual students should decide how many applications to send, not external 3rd party regulators.

If a larger number of applications presents a problem for an external 3rd party group, then there are usually options to improve that problem besides setting a maximum limit on number of applications. I have only skimmed the thread, but I didn’t see the problems from a large number of applications clearly defined.

Is the primary concern that the larger number of applications increases college selectivity and/or perception of selectivity? That students or others feel overwhelmed, with the many applications? That students are a making a bad decision by applying to many colleges, and we need to correct that bad decision? Something else?

65

You know what the employer says it is looking for by reading the job listing and other web pages, just like you know what the college says it is looking for by reading its web pages. Of course, both employers and colleges may have unannounced criteria, and the weighting or relative importance of the stated criteria may not be specified, so determining if you really are a match by the employer’s or college’s actual (as opposed to stated) criteria is not always obvious enough for an outsider to be confident of being the match.

66

Admission is only part of the puzzle. Paying for it is the other piece. My son has a very good idea which schools he will get into. He’s done plenty of research. Which ones will give merit and how much is another story. Some schools are transparent with FA and merit. Many others are not. That’s one reason you can’t limit apps.

College admissions is very much like a job search. I know the basic requirements of the job just like the average SAT/GPA for admissions. I don’t apply for jobs that aren’t in my field just like I wouldn’t apply to an Ivy if my SAT was 1000. I might also have a salary range but I don’t the specific amount until an offer is made. Just like I don’t the true cost of a college until acceptance and all the FA/Scholarships are awarded.

67

Our public HS has a 10 college limit. It forced my S20 to research schools very carefully. Since colleges ostensibly know a lot about each high school, it has to work the other way, too - they know that kids from our HS tend to not want to ‘waste’ any of their apps, so they are careful not to. Sure, some students throw out Hail Mary apps, but certainly not many.

He applied to one college EA, and was accepted. He is done and very confident in his choice.

Along with this rule, our GCs spend a ton of time with each student to both develop their initial and final list. His GC kept in frequent contact with him (and us) as he visited schools and eliminated some and elevated others. My oldest had the same GC 10 years ago, and he recalls the 6 schools my oldest applied to. I didn’t even remember that. So, it is more than a rule as much as an overall approach to working with the students in their college journey.

68

@johnny523. Interesting stats on NYU but they do not rebut my assertion (that students applying to a larger number of colleges does NOT in and of itself make acceptances significantly more difficult.)

There are myriad reasons why NYUs rates, numbers and yields varied over those years. Students sending out too many apps is not one of them. IMO.

69

Absolutely positively No.

The core issue with this line of thinking is that you are imposing your will onto another person using a flawed line of reasoning. While intentions may be good, the results may or may not be optimal for a particular student. It’s not possible for you to understand the wants and needs of a wide spectrum of students.

Quit trying to parent and solve other kids problems and concentrate on the needs of your own.

70

Your HS probably doesn’t have a 10-school limit. More likely, the HS has a 10-package limit – meaning the counselors/teachers are not required to assist students with recommendations/referrals/transcripts to more than 10 different recipients.

With Common App and the Coalition App, one set of transcripts/recommendations can be used for 20 university applications on Common App, and at least that many more on the Coalition App. I’ve heard of people getting more than 20 applications through Coalition App.

Your HS’s “limits” would still allow a family to apply to at least 48 universities if they decided to do so.

71

The only people who should limit the number apps a student applied to is their parents. Every family has different application strategies. One family’s application strategy isn’t hurting another’s, so why should this be relegated? My D applied to 17 schools, all carefully selected and all were reaches from the perspective that she was shooting for a competitive full ride. She ended up having options. Fewer schools could have proved to be a big mistake since there was little rhyme or reason to the ones she won.

72

@Johnny523
While a particular school might not have a decreased yield, overall (all colleges) the yield must decrease if students apply to more colleges.

73

@econpop. You are correct. There is nothing to prevent my son from applying to 100 schools if each required no involvement from our HS. And I have known kids to apply to more than 10 where the HS involvement was needed (they are flexible if warranted).

But they don’t just have the rule and punish those who fail to comply. The 10 college rule is all about ensuring the kids think hard about what they want in a college, research schools carefully, and be strategic with their applications, knowing that most require extra work. Apply to 10, but do each app well. And this process seems to be effective, at least with my kid it was. He has become quite the authority on engineering curriculums and research programs at universities in the U.S. Useless info for him now, but probably saved us about $200k.

74

@cypresspat , I don’t intend to argue that applying to 10+ colleges is the right answer for everyone. I would not be presumptuous enough to assume I know what is the right choice for every family in every possible situation that exists.

It sounds like the correct number for you and your children was less than 10. That’s great. For some families, the correct number might be 3. That’s great. For others, it might be 17. That’s great. For others still, it might be 39. Yes, for the family that needs to apply to that many universities, it is great that they can now do so by using the online apps. I truly believe both 3 and 39 can be the correct number, depending on circumstance.

My disagreement lies in why one side (the “low” side, I’ll call them) attempts to dictate how the other side should live their lives and make decisions for their families. It harms no one if family Q decides to apply to 52 universities searching for merit money and fin aid. And, IMO, no one should criticize family Q for going about their family business as they see fit.

There are many paths to every destination. Let’s not block the path for some just because others may not need that path.

75

@econpop I agree with you. And if our Hs was rigid about this, I would fight to have it changed. The GC’s argument is, in their experience, outcomes are better if the students have a goal of no more than 10 apps. And they don’t just dictate it, they work a lot with the kids to get them to where 10 apps does make sense. If it doesn’t work out that way, then they support the kid who needs to apply to more. I can think of one such scenario (kid loves a safety, but wants to play 15 lottery tickets applications, too; this kid would be hurt by the rule assuming 15 apps are doable).

Are the outcomes better, on average, with this policy in place? Don’t know. Only have a data point of one. Did I bristle a bit when I first heard this rule? Yes. Did I assume that they must bend the rule sometimes? Yes. Did my kid? No. He followed their processes and procedures to the letter, because that is just the way he is. The 10 school rule was just one piece of the whole 18 month process.

The spirit of the rule, at least in our HS, is to treat the college search process very seriously. Each app is precious; parents will pay $, students will pay with time and someone will be charged with reviewing each app. Early in the process, during a meeting with the GC, when my son would throw a school out there (likely because of a recent NCAA success or something like that), it was never met with a ‘sure, if you want to give it a try.’ Instead, the attitude was ‘well, that might be a good choice as part of your strategy, but you need to understand a lot more before you are willing to give them one of your applications.’ That approach set the tone of an emphasis on the care needed in this process, and for my kid, who takes most things seriously, it resulted in an absurdly careful and therefore anxiety-free process (for him). The kids who did not follow the process? Freaking out right about now.

The other side benefit of the 10 app rule is the kids get practice in thinking hard about choosing a school. Knocking one off the list is an important exercise, as it kind of mimics the eventual final decision process. My kid became exceptional at knocking schools off of the list, but at the beginning it was REALLY hard for him. Having had to think through list membership so many times, and then living with that decision for a while, very much helped him zone in on what was really important to him. We learned a ton about him and he learned a lot about himself. This was spread out over a year, not jammed into 4 weeks with a countdown to May 1 looming. And as my kid knocked schools off of his list, he was able to have relatively easy conversations with us. He had his reasons, and they were always pretty rational and carefully thought out. For two of the schools he eliminated, it was a big disappointment to me and my husband. (H is somewhat obsessed with Notre Dame). Having that conversation now, pre-application, seems way better than having it later - when the stakes would have felt much higher. We all got practiced at thinking about college choices very deeply. And we would not have forced ourselves to care all that much about the list if it were not for the 10 app rule.

Having gone through this with three kids and seemingly hundreds of their friends and parents, I have never heard a single person say they wish they had applied to more. Have heard a LOT say they wish they’d done more careful research ahead of time and applied to fewer. The 10 app rule creates a dress-rehearsal scenario for the real thing. And it is a pretty major decision that can benefit from a dress rehearsal.

76

Look at lots of options, BUT work on your research before you apply. Save everyone time and money.

General observation:
Not enough applicants define and focus on the range of options available at the Universities to which they actually apply. Look under the hood and learn more about the actual operation. Students spend a lot of time listening to peer reviews in their secondary schools while parents focus with their friends. There are many outstanding options out there which we rarely hear about. More helpful questions may arise when one looks beyond the big billboards and steps out of the neighborhood.

Research takes time, effort, interest and focus. This is how one finds the best fit and price! Generalities like “the top 20” are very overused. Look at the quality of the students who actually attend these hidden gems.

77

I didn’t think this thread was about dictating. It asked our opinions. And any of us know there are kids who think it’s the size of the list that does the trick.

But it’s more, imo, about the quality of your own apps, how you are what your targets will want. how they fit you, and understanding enough to show it. And affordability. Then the fates take over.

We know those kids who, eg, apply to all the Ivies probably haven’t stopped to understand the differences. Posters note that all the time. Do you throw in those 8 just because they’re generous? Without considering if you’d even get in with your full record, more than stats? I think not. Sure, if you cut it in half, you won’t know what you may have gotten from the others. But it works better, I think, to be realistic.

Of course there may be exceptions. If you can’t run the NPC, you may not have any idea of possible net costs.

Maybe you have to suspend the belief that you just apply and then enter a lottery.

When my first applied, there were no NPCs. But we started with the colleges’ overall aid policies and where it was reasonable for her to take a shot, where they’d want her, while also where she’d be satisfied.

No dictating, just our own ideas about what’s reasonable, given that you get nothing, if you don’t match, won’t be admitted. I couldn’t rest easy just seeing this as an ocean of wild “chance.” That’s part of deciding what your safeties are, too.

78

It’s easy to say limit apps if you’re a full pay family and can afford to send your kid anywhere. Or if your district has a GC that can be heavily involved in the search and has time to review apps. Most families aren’t full pay and most district guidance counselors don’t have time to individually counsel each student through the admissions process.

I’m sure people do the best they can. I don’t believe there are a lot of families who allow their kid to throw out a bunch of lottery apps. We see it on CC, but CC is a self-selected bunch and not representative of the general population. Most people can’t afford to waste money on schools that aren’t realistic targets.

79

@austinmshauri I agree with you, somewhat. It is certainly an easier college search for a family without financial constraints. But my point WAS that because our GCs were so engaged in the process, the 10 app rule is simply to support what they are trying to ensure the students do- research carefully and choose your list wisely. Their experience has taught them that the majority students benefit from this. Why wouldn’t applicants who need financial and/or merit aid also benefit from a carefully constructed list? From having gone through an in-depth vetting process early? Won’t that make their applications higher quality? Keep them from losing a month of their first semester senior year buried in essays to 20+ schools? Being able to know a school well-enough to show genuine interest?

My son’s doing a boatload of research early in the process (he’s a rule follower) led him to conclude (eventually) that our state flagship is what he wants. He had ZERO interest in it when he started. By carefully comparing the schools (starting with a looooong list he needed to pare down) on a set of criteria that also evolved along the way, he couldn’t make an argument against the flagship (aka, he learned things about many of the elite schools that he wouldn’t have discovered otherwise). The 10 app rule had the impact of making him feel like HE was in control here - not at all how he felt Initially when he was considering a bunch of reach schools only. Eliminating them, one by one, was liberating for him. He was able to figure out which schools would not really like him, and vice versa. This is a very different feeling than his friend (different school) who is frantically trying to get his 25 apps in…and can’t tell you much about any of the schools other than their ranking. Friend is relying on a shotgun approach; kids in our HS use more of a rifle approach. Now, my only data point also had the advantage of his #1 being a safety, so his first pull of the trigger hit its mark. But given how well he knew each school, I suspect he would hit a few more targets if he chooses to reload.

Without the 10 app rule, our November and December would be really different. He would have played the odds and applied all over the place. Instead, the a priori work resulted in an early win, a calm holiday season and two parents who saved quite a bit of $.

If there is some other way to incentivize HS juniors to be very careful with their list development, then I’d be cool with that too, probably. I can’t think of one, though, and this way certainly works like a charm.

80

@cypresspat , when we’re talking about full-pay families of high-stats children, I agree with you 100% that ≤ 10 university applications should be enough. And I agree for all the reasons you listed. Especially for students who have GC who are very informed and heavily involved in the student’s application process.