Doctors and Lawyers: Professions with Declining Appeal

<p>"You realize that, when a doctor gets sued, it is because a patient they treated is going to suffer physically, financially, and emotionally for the rest of their lives? Those people sue because a mistake has severely damaged their way of life, "</p>

<p>I don't suppose this is the point of this thread, but I have to disagree with the above. Of course My personal opinion is biased, since I am physician, but I have also attended many risk management seminars and do not believe the statement above is true in MANY cases. Maybe a SUCCESSFUL suit is because of suffering and "mistakes", but many suits are initiated because of anger and a poor relationship with the doctor. Sometimes that's because the Physicians "customer" is the insurance company and not the patient. Sometimes it's because the patient trusts a commercial move then their doctor. It is frustrating to feel like I'm selling burgers. "I have ADHD: (or Bipolar Disorder, or whatever);" I took a test on the internet" (or someone diagnosed me in a chat room). I'll have some "Abilify" please ...and no weight gain with that...I think this is again the result of the patient feeling the physician works "for" the insurance company.What is defined as a "mistake" seems up to each sides "expert opinion".</p>

<p>Also I am of the OPINION that "med mal" doesn't always cover all damages and Physicians can often be at financial risk in spite of having coverage.</p>

<p>Interesting thread! My son has been volunteering at a hospital and many physicians have tried to talk him out of pursuing a career in medicine. One asked him what his father does for a living, and when he answered "business", the doctor told him he should follow his dad's footsteps because he'll make a lot more money. Another convinced him to become a physician assistant so that's the direction he'll be heading in the fall.</p>

<p>"You also realize that the doctor isn't the one paying up right? That's why they have insurance."</p>

<p>I suppose that is true, unless you consider the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in med liability insurance premiums that physicians must pay. I have been told by some attorneys that it is frequently more cost-effective and time-efficient to sue all doctors associated with a client's care and then later drop from the suit those with no apparent liability. Even if the physician is dropped, his med mal premiums will increase.</p>

<p>"I suppose that is true, unless you consider the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in med liability insurance premiums that physicians must pay."</p>

<p>One of many the expenses that is part of the escalating price of everyones health care.</p>

<p>After watching Grey's Anatomy for 4 seasons, it makes me want to be a doctor.....in another life. lol. we need more doctors who want to be doctors because they are passionate about it, not because they want to make big bucks and have the title of "Doc."</p>

<p>I still want to get a law degree, medical degree, and (in addition to one of those, a PhD)...the article made me sick when I read it. It's nice, though, to see that people are still interested in the "helping" and "learning" professions, though, and that not everyone wants to be an I-banker or hedge fund manager.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Doctors need to stop working for health insurance companies.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How will this happen? How will patients pay for healthcare otherwise?</p>

<p>I'm planning on going to law school. Don't forget- not all lawyers are malpractice lawyers, or worse than that, "ambulance chasers". Some of us want to be advocacy lawyers, trial lawyers, international lawyers, government lawyers, corporate lawyers, etc. Sure there are some lawyers who take advantage of a situation, but I think you can find that in any profession. The profession has a bad repution, but a lot of lawyers do a lot of good, and in some cases, a real service for the community.</p>

<p>I think it is simply a case of the grass is always greener. All occupations evolve and change. Come spend a day in my office, and both law and medicine will be attractive again. </p>

<p>My S in his first year at med school. Couldn't be happier for him. I would never want either child to follow my footsteps into insurance and investment. </p>

<p>While investment banking is todays big deal, because it sounds like free money.... things have a way of straightening out. Look for the feds to jump inthere before too much longer.</p>

<p>Response to post #27:</p>

<p>I can pay directly to the doctor or the hospital for service they provide me. Just simple like that. Of course, this requires some change in healthcare policy by Congress. Although I had money, I could not buy health insurance for my little kid and myself sometimes ago because of the pre-existing condition labeled by the insurance companies. Insurance companies almost killed my kids too (twice) when they were born. You won't feel the pain caused by the insurance companies until someone you love is denied for service by them.</p>

<p>coolweather,</p>

<p>I've already had that happen (denied healthcare), but do you honestly believe that we'd be better off paying out of pocket for MRIs, bypasses, and expensive emergency surgeries?</p>

<p>While I do agree that we should reform how insurance is done, I don't think for a moment (based on my knowledge of actual costs of procedures and how money works) that we should get rid of it altogether. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take my chances with insurance than pay tens of thousands of dollars for treatment out of pocket.</p>

<p>it seems that most people i know going for med school aren't really that interested in helping people or "passion" or any of that, it's more about the money/prestige. most pre-meds i know would never even consider going into nursing school, but isn't nursing helping people too? what about social work? </p>

<p>on the other hand, it doesn't necessarily take passion or a willingness to help people to be a doctor. you can be mother theresa, but if you can't perform this key operation successfully.. well then..</p>

<p>the real question should be, what factors promote the most desirable outcomes, namely, successful treatment of patients? does passion lead to less negligence or errors? do higher insurance premiums prevent less errors? and we still have to take into account the opinions of doctors, because how they feel might affect their performance or drive them out of the profession altogether leaving a shortage in key specialties. etc. unfortunately, the CEOs may be more concerned with THEIR bottom line, not the patients'.</p>

<p>also, i don't think the prestige of being a doctor/lawyer has necessarily decreased, perhaps just the opinion. i recall polls saying that nurses are among the most "trusted" professions (lawyers and car salesman towards the bottom end), but you'd have difficulty finding someone's eyes light up saying "wow" if you tell them you're going to nursing school. vice versa with law. it's still pretty impressive to tell people you're going to law school.</p>

<p>the article deals with appeal. from my experience, most pre-med/pre-law students i know are not really aware of the bad sides of law or medicine and tend to think they'll be livin' the life once the education is done and over. and so i don't really think students view medicine or law negatively, i just think they happen to find other careers more enticing. it's like the harvard law grad who was lured into investment banking - i'm sure many of those instances they had an interest in pursuing law but realized investment banking was simply a better deal for them.</p>

<p>if you ask anybody, i think law, medicine, and successful businessmen would still be the most prestigious. i don't know anyone who's ever said "being a lawyer is a bad idea!" or something along those lines.. i only hear that from my parents.. or on CC xD</p>

<p>Shrinkrap, you are correct, I should have said most SUCCESSFUL medmal cases are done in response to someone suffering physical and financial hardship due to a mistake. I'm sure there are medmal lawyers out there pursuing many frivolous lawsuits, but (although I'm not a lawyer), it saddens me to see people label them all as "ambulance chasers," because many of them are doing their job quite responsibly.</p>

<p>The colleges have overproduced in advanced degrees of all kinds. However within law and medicine other factors may be contributing to the declining numbers of new entries.<br>
At some institutions those who chose to pursue these fields are sometimes charged higher tuition than would the tuition for other disciplines. Within the medical field this could be justified (in a small way) because of the need for advanced research facilities and equipment. How this enhanced tuition would be the case for a legal student compared to a historian or sociologist gods only know.
Another factor has been the escalating costs of college, with a per year increase of about 6% since the early 2000's. Although docs and lawyers can be paid well out of school, they're in a considerable bind when that income is compared to the costs of their education and credentials. The situation has become so bad that the AMA recently asked the Bush administration to reinstate and extend loan deferments for those who'd obtained medical degrees. It's a matter of time before the ABA tries to obtain the same relief for their members.
A long term problem might result in which many who do obtain Md's or Juris Doctorates may have to make the decision to take their abilities elsewhere. They do not have the option of dropping out of the economy (as some in other fields have been recently forced to do)-so likely we'll see an exodus of highly trained legal and medical people to other countries which lack 'agreements' with our SL industry. A bad sign for the scientific and social development of this country (and for that matter the collegiate system), if these trends do develop and continue.</p>

<p>I've observed a shift from students who in the past would have gone to med or law school and are now pursuing careers in the arts. Also, many of these students are sons/daughters of physicians, and they're choosing fields like film, drama, etc.</p>

<p>I'm actually glad. If a prospective med student finds out they can "make more money" by going into business, then GO INTO BUSINESS. I am so sick of people becoming doctors for financial security...sure it pays well, but if you don't have a passion for it, you will begin to loathe it. That means you will begin to have a negative attitude toward every aspect of the job, including the patients. This leads to bad patient/doctor relationship, which makes the patients think less of doctors...which is the cause of the whole problem. Bleh..</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>wow...can you not read? I said the decline for medicine was not good.</p>

<p>LOL@ categorizing lawyers as fighting for "justice"</p>

<p>"Also, many of these students are sons/daughters of physicians, and they're choosing fields like film, drama, etc."</p>

<p>Someone on CC posted something that I have repeated often. Something related to first generation immigrants are plumbers, second are doctors, and third are poets. My older sister and I are lawyers, my younger brother a film director. He really resonated with that quote as well. Sigh...looks like both of my kids prefer the "arts". I just hope they can handle a change from "the lifestyle they have been accustomed to".</p>

<p>I have advised my daughter who wants to go to law school..."fine, its a great education, but then go into government service. Its more stable, you can do some actual good for the country." </p>

<p>There is not enough space in this website for me to delineate what I think about the pitfalls of the legal and medical professions and some of the "characters" therein.</p>

<p>There are plenty of decent human beings in both professions, doing their best under difficult circumstances. But there is also a fair number of raving jerks in both professions whose best attribute is the ability to make money. True, you can find such people in any profession, but there is an expectation that you will find better people in the professions, and its very disturbing when you dont. In the legal profession, for example, you have to watch from three angles at all times: your opposing counsel, your client, your law partners. All three are capable of destroying you.</p>

<p>Caveat Emptor.</p>

<p>I'm VERY happy that interest in law is declining - less competition for me when I get my T14 Law Degree! Muahaha!</p>