<p>@mom2collegekids - Yes, I realized that when I wrote it, actually. I was only addressing the comment made by mom2aphysicsgeek that some schools only report certain ACT tests. If they are following the rules, they still report true composites.</p>
<p>I will have to make some more phone calls someday and see if these schools are using superscores when they report their SAT scores, especially. As was said, and I know this to be true at some schools (like Tulane) they do one thing for admissions (superscore) and another for their top scholarships and their CDS reporting (best single sitting). Don’t ask me why, because I didn’t ask them to explain their reasoning.</p>
<p>What really needs to happen is for the CDS people to require certain methodologies for this section and for GPA calculation. I think, though, they may be afraid to do this because it would require more work for many schools and compliance is voluntary. But then they should at least have the schools note how they are calculating the reported data.</p>
<p>@fallenchemist Not sure why you brought up SAT averages since that was not the basis for the comparison between UA Honors and the Ivies as well as other elite schools. Any ways, the reported average SAT at UA is without superscoring. I believe Ivies and other elites superscore so the numbers are not comparable.</p>
<p>As to the average ACT arguments, this is better but again a problem because ACT results for schools are reported for the middle 50%. The average ACT numbers you provide for the Ivies are unsubstantiated. This is not to say they are in fact accurate, but because the numbers are not available to the public, it is inappropriate to use as a basis for comparison. </p>
<p>But even if it was, the reporting of average ACT was eliminated many years ago in favor of reporting the middle 50% because of the skewed nature of the the extreme scores. My guess is that a greater number of students who score 35+ would apply to Ivies vs UA Honors. Compare this with UA Honors which accepts all students who score 28+. This fact alone would substantially lower average/mean ACT scores at UA Honors. The more appropriate method would be to use the median ACT score vs. mean ACT in this case to iron out the skewed numbers at the extremes. If this was reported, I believe UA Honor’s median ACT would be 32, the same as the Ivies.</p>
<p>The rest of your arguments are just your opinions which you are entitled to have just like the rest of us.</p>
<p>I made the Ivy/Elite school comparison because when students and parents are looking for schools they may pass on schools like UA Honors because in every ranking entity the specificity about the quality of students in an Honors College is not well reported. When one sees the numbers comparisons, I believe it really opens one’s eyes to other possibilities than just the Ivies and/or Elite schools and not the eye rolling you believe. </p>
<p>^
I agree. And the beauty of Bama’s HC is that it has a stress-free entrance (not including UFE and CBH). </p>
<p>so many kids are so stressed during most of their senior years - crafting essays, rewriting essays, doing apps, waiting, waiting, waiting…only to have hopes crushed by rejections and waitlists.</p>
<p>At Bama, a student can apply in the summer and have an acceptance and scholarship award in Sept…and enjoy senior year.</p>
<p>@voiceofreason66 - Well, if all you want to compare is one statistic and imply from that a complete equivalence of schools, then I hardly know what to say. Talk about cherry picking. Why ignore the SAT scores if that is the case? Are they less valid than the ACT scores, or do they just not look as good for your purposes. And BTW, you are the first to bring up the average ACT (post #1 in this thread). You do seem to keep talking against your own arguments.
Talk about unsubstantiated. Where do you get either number. You talk about the Ivies as if they were one school. This is ridiculous.</p>
<p>IMO opinion you just rendered the entire discussion as rather worthless. I just never really imagined that you meant to either A) hang such a claim on one statistic; or B) make such a trivial point that one statistic compared well with the Ivies. If it is the latter, then fine. I will concede just to prove another point that AHC’s ACT scores are comparable to Brown, Cornell, UPenn and Dartmouth. So what?? It is one aspect, and not even true of all the Ivies, which was your original claim after all.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I actually find that rather upsetting, in the limited sense of this discussion. It is beyond academically trivial. Therefore I will leave this for the rest of you to hash out.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist, I too will agree with you. </p>
<p>This is mostly because I don’t think it makes any sense to compare the UA Honors College to an entire University. Students in the UA Honors College do not only take courses with other honors students. In fact, the courses offered by the Honors College do not make up a large portion of the total classes one takes. Yes, there are departmental honors courses as well, but even they aren’t the majority of classes for most students. My CBH, Honors College daughter has not taken a single departmental honors class other than EN 103 because they never fit into her schedule and were not her priority. She’s taking her first honors seminar this fall. So the vast, vast majority of her classes have been taken with the general population of the University (including students in the Honors College, which IIRC makes up about 25% of the school). That is clearly not the same group one would be taking classes with at any Ivy. But it’s OK with her.</p>
<p>Even within the Honors College I’m not convinced that the average student could have won acceptance to an Ivy. I know my daughter would never have been admitted to an Ivy, and she had very good high school grades and a high ACT score. She had stats high enough to get into CBHP, yet dozens of students from her high school with better stats were rejected from Ivies. (D wanted only a large state flagship and therefore didn’t apply to Ivies or other elite schools). Of course there are plenty of students at UA who could have been (and were) accepted to Ivies, but I don’t think they’re anywhere close to the majority. But the Ivies reject huge numbers of students who could have been immensely successful there and who have higher stats than many of the students who are accepted to the Ivies, so the UA honors students who didn’t get into Ivies are in good company.</p>
<p>All of that said, I don’t think you need to be at an Ivy or surrounded by the students who somehow got into an Ivy to get a fabulous education. In UA’s Honors College, my D is surrounded by very talented, intelligent, ambitious and interesting students. Most of her professors have been marvelous and all have been helpful and student-centric. CBH is an amazing opportunity, although I think my D would be having a great experience even without it. The combination of the caring professors, individual attention, huge range of majors, great peer group, school spirit, top notch sports, wide ranging arts programs, etc. makes UA all my D could hope for. Why would she need an Ivy?</p>
<p>@fallenchemist Not sure where to start. Your blanket statement that my arguments presented are worthless because I was the first to report average ACT scores is beyond me. When I reported the scores it was in specific reference to your inquiry about what the average ACT numbers were for UA Honors since others reported the average ACT for UA as a whole. While taking the time to find the answer for you, I too was surprised that the average ACT was so high. I dug a bit deeper to see what the reported middle 50% ACT scores were for UA Honors and those of Ivies and other elites and found that they were very similar. I then made the comment that the UA Honors ACT scores rivaled that of the Ivies and elite schools. </p>
<p>From there you went on to argue why I was wrong and presented average Ivy ACT scores from personal data and not from public data reported by the universities. I then substantiated my view with the actual reported ACT numbers of the middle 50% for Ivies. </p>
<p>For some reason, you then found a need to argue further. I then provided reasoned arguments challenging your beliefs, and for this you conclude that everything I’ve stated is worthless because I started this thread by using average ACT scores. </p>
<p>WOW!! You have some strange reasoning to discredit valid arguments.</p>
<p>I have it on good authority (i.e., I made it up) that the average height of students at UAH is .25" taller than students at the Ivies. We know that height reflects both genetic health and good nutrition, which in turn is associated with academic achievement. </p>
<p>The whole idea of schools “rivaling” each other (outside of sports) seems a bit strange to me, as does the lumping together of the “Ivies.” I’m not familiar with UAH, but if it’s a great place for its students, well, that’s wonderful. That some students choose it over “the Ivies,” well, that’s fine also. That anyone takes great comfort in that, well, that’s something to get beyond. </p>
<p>@fallenchemist As to your statement that my belief that the Median ACT for UA Honors is 32 unsubstantiated. Here is my reasoning. In 2012, there were 1755 students in the Honors College. There were also 795 Presidential Scholars, 232 National Merit Finalist, 36 National Achievement Finalists, 8 Academic Elite and 8 Crimson Scholars for a total of 1079 students who received full tuition or higher scholarships. Half of 1755 is 878 which would be the median number. Since there are 1079 (795+232+36+8+8) students in the Honors College receiving the Presidential Scholarship or better I believe it is fair to assume that there are at least 878 students who scored 32 or better on the ACT since Presidential scholarship require at least a 32 ACT for OOS and 30 ACT for InState students. My calculations provide a 201 student cushion for those instate student scoring 30-31 ACT who receive Presidential Scholarship.</p>
<p>UA honors looks only at stats for admission. Ivies require more than just stats. Most of those Ivy admits have started curing cancer, run their own business, performed at Carnegie, etc. If you’re “just” a valedictorian-type with super-high ACT and routine EC’s, you may have been a star in high school but you’re not getting into Harvard. Based on stats alone, UA Honors may compare favorably with Ivies, but the overall student bodies are no comparison. Doesn’t mean Ivy is a better choice or fit, but it’s not a valid comparison.</p>
<p>@Chardo You are correct, there are many other factors so the comparison in that regard is not valid, but this was a discussion that stemmed from a common factor of ACT scores and from that point of view the numbers are pretty similar. This thread was made from another thread where the question of Average ACT score for the Honors College was raised by the moderator of this this thread.</p>
<p>(Or was that a clever joke that went over my head?)</p>
<p>Signed,
LucieThe Lake, 20th century graduate of Not Penn State back when it was the Dregs of the Ivies (but went to the NCAA Final Four in basketball).</p>
<p>@LucieTheLakie , whichever school it is, the point is the same. I had no idea that Not Penn State was the dregs at one time. I guess someone had to hold the place in line for Cornell (just kidding, please, no emails). </p>
<p>Yeah, I got that, @IxnayBob. Your timing with the UAH mistake was excellent, though, given the parallel conversation we’re having here about confusion amongst the general public about UA/UAH/UAB/UASOM. (Did I miss any???) :-)</p>
<p>Count me in among the great unwashed. I saw UAH and a discussion of the UA Honors college and thought they were one and the same. I’d love to say that it was a subtle, clever, and well-timed joke on my part, but I’ve already used up my quota of anonymous internet lies (and it’s just barely noon). </p>
<p>Please read @springy179 story of choosing UA over elite schools. I’m sure there are many others in UA Honors who have similar stories, but my guess is there are many who chose not to attend UA because of the perceived lack of prestige and who were unaware of the caliber of the UA Honors College students, which is a shame. </p>