<p>There are many more non-Ivy non-elite graduates out there and so, of course, they are more plentiful on the payrolls of most employers. </p>
<p>I think it’s certainly true that if your kid wants to stay on home ground and work for one of the big local employers than his or her chances are very good of snagging an entry level cube at one of them by going to a local school and doing well there. However, employment of late is unstable, to say the least. Who knows how long that local company will stay in business? Or stay in your region? Or not get bought out by a multi-national run by folks who have no respect at all for your local universities?</p>
<p>Globalization, sadly, is driving up the value of the Ivy and other elite degrees. Their value, in my view, is that they are respected all over the world and not just in your home town. I’d like my kids to live near me and work near me . . . but I know from my own life that sort of static geographic life course is getting to be rare.</p>
<p>Don’t forget though that not all Ivy schools have the same international awareness. If the global aspect of a post undergrad degree is a consideration then MIT, UofM and others are equally well respected and well known globally. And that name recognition and strength is also a factor in the US. The answer to does an Ivy League education offer more than other schools is “it depends.” If you can afford it or get the needed aid and it’s an environment where you can be successful then by all means go for it. But to feel that one is a failure or will be a failure because they did not get admitted to an Ivy or to feel that they have been somehow limited in life because they did not attend is short sighted or naive.</p>
<p>“Don’t forget though that not all Ivy schools have the same international awareness. If the global aspect of a post undergrad degree is a consideration then MIT, UofM and others are equally well respected and well known globally. And that name recognition and strength is also a factor in the US.”</p>
<p>Right, and those schools, as well as Northwestern, Berkeley, and Stanford are all top 15 schools. While they are not ivy schools per-se, they are ivy in the sense that they are ELITE schools, which I think is the spirit of the discussion.</p>
<p>some of you are extremely deluded to think that ivy leagues don’t offer substantially more than other schools. keep spreading these ideas. it only makes it easier for those of us who are actually intelligent. less competition</p>
<p>The one thing that I’ve noticed already with my D at Cornell is that are significantly more $ spent on the students EC’s by the college than at the 2 collges my older D attended (George Mason & Niagara) . Her being involved in many things with students from all over the world is a real plus.</p>
<p>^ csdad, the kids I’ve known who went to Cornell seem to be having fantastic launches into their careers and post-grad programs. </p>
<p>I agree with fragout that it’s about selectivity and reputation and not Ivy vs non-Ivy. </p>
<p>I also will repeat that I think as our lives become more and more globalized, an extremely recognized college “brand” is a good thing to have working for you.</p>
<p>When people ask if Ivy League schools offer more than other schools, I take it indeed that they are asking - do those particular 8 schools offer more than other similarly elite schools that aren’t part of that particular athletic conference. They are indeed asking if Brown brings more to the party than Duke, or Dartmouth compared to Northwestern, or (insert other Ivy league school) compared to (insert non-Ivy elite school). </p>
<p>If people wanted to ask “do elite undergraduate schools offer more than other schools,” they’d ask that question instead.</p>
<p>Fragout - I’m a grad of one of the (non-Ivy, elite) schools you mentioned, and my children are both going to top (non-Ivy, elite) schools. I absolutely agree elite schools have benefits over non-elite schools. But that’s not the topic being discussed.</p>
<p>I think out here the name “Ivy” has more going for it than many of the schools themselves. 99% of the population doesn’t have a clue what Dartmouth is about (and the majority couldn’t pronounce it), might be surprised that Brown (why is there a school in Rhode Island?) doesn’t stand for UPS (the shipper, not the school, which has an excellent reputation out here) and some might wonder if there were other colors in the Ivy League, and couldn’t tell a Cornell from a Grinnell. If you told most people that William and Mary (or Duke, etc.) was in the Ivy League, I am quite sure that a majority would believe you. Most employers have never met a Princeton or Columbia undergrad school graduate. For five or six of the eight, the “brand” is in “Ivy”, not in their own name. And want to see eyes really glaze over? Tell folks that Williams or Amherst are “little Ivies”. (I’ve done it, so I can bear witness.)</p>
<p>As to what they “offer”, again, most folks wouldn’t know, except perhaps that they have professors, students, football teams (not very good ones), they offer degrees (though none in business - most won’t know that isn’t true - and, after all, there are more students studying business in college in the U.S. than the liberal arts) and they seem not to like very smart students from around here (though H. does seem to like our football players). Oh, and for some people, they seem to be against religion (two years ago, we had two students turn down H for Calvin College.)</p>
<p>What they offer is very, very, very, very good. In my judgment, for many students in the liberal arts, not as good as many good LACs offer, but the class of people who would even be comparing is really very small indeed.</p>
<p>I don’t think the OP is asking about social prestige. I think the question is more about career advancement, access to grad programs, that sort of stuff.</p>
<p>“I don’t think the OP is asking about social prestige. I think the question is more about career advancement, access to grad programs, that sort of stuff.”</p>
<p>And I think I answered that. Out here, it generally speaking will not help (or not help much) with career advancement beyond the fact that Ivy students are generally speaking very smart. If my d’s program is any indication, it will not help with Ph.D. grad program admission above and beyond the fact that most Ivy grads are generally sepaking smart (and might actually hurt in some cases, though I don’t know beyond the fact that her program hasn’t taken a single Ivy applicant in five years - most, it seems, came from LACs and some state schools, both first and second tier.). And whether it helps with law school, med school, or business school admissions, again, above and beyond the fact that many of the students are really smart (and many come from wealthy, highly connected families with high aspirations for their children - nothing wrong with that) cannot be determined. </p>
<p>And the schools are very, very, very, very good, and offer lots of good stuff (which is what I thought the question was about.)</p>
<p>When my son got accepted to Brown, we did get a sense they offered a higher level of personalized attention. He was offered a free plane ticket via email to come visit the school. A few days later, he received a personalized letter from his committee advocate which mentioned the particular elements in his application which impressed the committee. Shortly thereafter, he heard back from the alumnus who had interviewed him, congratulating him on his admission.</p>
<p>Maybe in the grand scheme of things, these extra touches are merely the equivalent of chocolates on the pillow, but it does create quite a nice impression during the final decision-making period.</p>
<p>My d. received the same from four different LACs (that is, offers of free flights), in one case a phonecall from the college president herself (and a card personally signed by the president to her, including specific references to her application), and then a follow-up call from a student and the alumna interviewer; in another case a four-page single-spaced letter from the head of admissions specifically referencing her college essay, a phonecall from the department head, and three separate e-mails from current students in her chosen department (she turned them down), and, I think, from another school, a box of chocolates. (It struck me at the time as WAY over the top, and simply acts of desperation - and it couldn’t have been for our money, 'cause we didn’t have any! The aid offer at each school made attendance cheaper, and in some cases much cheaper, than the state u. That counted; they could have spared us the chocolates.)</p>
<p>Prestige colleges HATE to have students they’ve accepted turn them down - it upsets their yield statistics (even if they have plenty of folks waiting for the place on the waiting list.) And, yes, it’s nice to feel wanted. But it isn’t anything special to the Ivies.</p>
<p>(and, to be fair, D2 received none of the above).</p>
<p>My daughter must have sucked big time. She was WL and had to write extra essays to get into her school, but she still graduated from an Ivy without a box of chocolate.</p>
<p>Yes, and yours went to an Ivy and mine didn’t. Now she teaches at one. Go figure. It all comes out in the wash…</p>
<p>(So much of this stuff strikes me as SO silly! My d who didn’t go to a “prestige” school is gonna be a millionaire. I have to figure out how to best hit her up for money.)</p>
<p>She’s already plotting her first condo (which will cost some four times or more what our house cost us; granted it was 1991), which I find truly bizarre for a 21-year-old.</p>