<p>I'd love to hear from current students who aren't totally happy...and to hear what they don't like about Pomona.</p>
<p>I’m not a current student (I was actually waitlisted- but I’ve visited a few times), but I read some reviews on *****.com (check it out- students rate and review their college, it’s pretty cool). It seems like the biggest complaint is the size- Pomona is a very small school, and some people say it doesn’t feel big enough.</p>
<p>I think it’s mitigated to an extent by the other 5C schools and all the stuff you can do in the surrounding area.</p>
<p>Alright, I’ve got one. I’ve heard it shared by others before as well.</p>
<p>Pomona seems significantly less great to minority students at times. This is DEFINITELY not to say unhappy - simply, because the 5C’s are so small to begin with minority groups become even smaller. This can make them cliquish too. Everyone is very accepting of minority groups and I really do love the people at Pomona, but I find myself feeing a little alone at times.</p>
<p>It’s too bad that you feel that way, knr802. Perhaps you should reconsider your worldview and open up more doors for yourself…</p>
<p>IMHO, the only minority anyone should be concerned about is the minority of one – the individual. It is the smallest minority, as well as the most pure and valid one. Each and every one of us is unique and special, because of our intellect, abilities and distinct life experience-- not because we belong to any particular group. </p>
<p>People and institutions that worship at the false altar of “diversity” insist on dividing everyone up into arbitrary groups and subgroups based on skin colour, ethnicity, sexual orientation, geographic origin, or any other one of the many inaccurate and divisive categories. By doing so, they do no one any favors. All they do is encourage a new form of segregation; a toxic mix of victimhood and post-modern tribalism that divides and destroys the community or society they hope to “improve”.</p>
<p>I find it sad, and more than a little disconcerting, that almost 60 years after Martin Luther King’s powerful and inspirational “I Have a Dream” speech, we are trying harder than ever to find ways in which we are different, rather than to find and share the common bonds of humanity. And the very people who insist upon doing this are those that profess to admire and follow King’s example. Remember these words?..</p>
<p>“I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”… “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”</p>
<p>The sooner we leave the inappropriate labels behind and start thinking and judging each other as individuals rather than groups the better off we’ll be as a society. Wallowing in and/or “celebrating” tribalism, no matter how well-intentioned, is not the path to happiness or enlightenment.</p>
<p>Think of yourself as an individual, at Pomona or anywhere else, and the world starts looking a whole lot better.</p>
<p>Enkephalon, while I appreciate your view (and very much agree with how great it would be to have a world that ideal), I think you may be looking past the point that “minority groups” don’t necessarily look for each other and clump together because they’re a similar minority, but because often they share common backgrounds, hardships, values, and interests. </p>
<p>I stated how I felt just as a precaution to those who really NEED comfort in finding groups very similar to themselves. I hate it just as much as you seem to when groups form for these reasons and refuse to branch out to others. A world where minorities seclude themselves only makes problems worse and does inevitably further prejudices. I take a little offense to your comment about me needing to reconsider my worldview, but this post is for others - not for me to argue and defend myself. Although any fellow Pomona onlookers who know who I am may get a good laugh out of that.</p>
<p>It would be wonderful to not need any kind of minority group labels. That I completely agree with. It’s a shame we haven’t been able to progress to that point by now, but we haven’t. Many groups are still fighting for rights, and I feel like it’s a little close-minded to simply state that minorities should not label or group themselves. Please respect that there are reasons beyond just looking at “skin colour, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc” about why it’s important (or at least nice) to have others like yourself around.</p>
<p>Anyways, I guess it’s important for me to note that the minority groups at Pomona are (in my opinion) pretty good at mixing in with everyone as well. Diversity and acceptance go both ways here.</p>
<p>Your points are well taken, knr802. Thanks for passing them along in the spirit of respectful discourse.</p>
<p>I did not mean to offend you in any way, and if I did, I’m truly sorry.</p>
<p>I agree with your suggestion that it is human nature to take comfort by assembling into homogeneous groups. Everyone wants to “belong” somehwere. And I realize that the world I am imagining is more an ideal at this point than a reality. The point I am trying to make is that I believe the diversity game everyone is playing these days has socially negative rather than positive overtones. In fact, very often this forced exclusivity and neo-tribalism encourages an “us against them” mentality and/or fosters feelings of victimhood and isolation.There is little to be gained – and much to be lost – when institutions promote the segregation of students into groups based on the parameters I mentioned earlier, or when groups of students on campuses across the nation can sequester themselves in separate dorms taking myopic and self-indulgent courses and wallowing in overcooked or stale-dated grievances that have little or no relevance in today’s world. Unfortunately, the net result of that practice in the main is not the establishment of a new society of independent, broad-minded, freely associating individuals – it is the creation of self-perpetuating societal subgroups with self-serving and one-dimensional perspectives. </p>
<p>To close, I’m not sure to whom you’re referring when you suggest there are “many groups still fighting for their rights”. It seems to me we live in a society where people have rights galore, and wherein pretty much anything is tolerated, and even encouraged… although maybe I’m opening up a can of worms by suggesting that!</p>
<p>Anyway, I’m glad to hear that the groups at Pomona are generally inclusive and not self-segregating. It’s what I would expect from the people who attend such a college. Good luck to you in your ongoing studies there and in your future life and career.</p>
<p>Ah, the wonders of youth!</p>
<p>Enkephelon, I’m sorry that you’ve never lived part of your life among poor people. If you had, you wouldn’t say such silly things. Anyone with eyes can see that the Pomona community is extremely socially narrow in an obvious way – it is essentially a community of affluent, white people. It doesn’t reflect the broader society at all. A poor Black, Hispanic or Native American could be quite uncomfortable socially since most of the white kids come from suburbs and don’t know how to engage with someone who is different and poorer.</p>
<p>Sorry to burst your rhetorical bubble, midatl__dd, but you are presently corresponding with someone who grew up with next to nothing in a tiny home with 8 other family members.</p>
<p>I know exactly what it’s like not to have money, status or privilege. Do you?</p>
<p>Your condescending air and man-of-the-world tone is torpedoed royally by your glib statement about the financial status and demographic makeup of Pomona students. It seems, my friend, that you are the sole purveyor of silly comments on this post and the only poverty worth discussing is that which is evident in the logic of your argument.</p>
<p>From the Pomona website: </p>
<p>“Pomona students come from 48 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and 24 foreign countries. In a voluntary self-report, 8.7 percent of the class of 2012 identified themselves as Black, 11.5 percent as Latino, and 21.2 percent as Asian. Roughly 6 percent are foreign students. Approximately 90 percent of entering freshmen receive degrees from Pomona after completing eight semesters of enrollment.” </p>
<p>While these figures do not correspond exactly to the last US population census, I encourage you to confirm that they are not far off and represent an honest attempt on the part of the administration to be inclusive and representative.</p>
<p>From other easily obtainable Pomona documents:</p>
<p>“Under an extensive financial aid program, approximately $28 million from funds administered by the College will be available to assist Pomona students during 2008-09. These funds are derived from endowments, individual, corporate and foundation gifts, federal sources and Pomona Colleges Annual Fund. In addition, Pomona students who are California residents are eligible for Cal Grants, which can range from $700 to $9,708 each; 80 Cal Grant recipients were in residence during 2007-08. The purpose of the aid program is to reduce the importance of college cost as a factor in college choice. The financial aid award is designed to close any gap that may exist between the familys reasonable ability to contribute and the actual cost of attending Pomona.”</p>
<p>Scratch deep enough, and you’ll discover that contrary to your inaccurate and ungenerous assertion, a good portion of your “affluent, white Pomona students” are neither affluent nor white. They, and their families, are desperately dependent on annual grants in order to attend the college and though I’m sure there are few silver spoons around, they are not as numerous as you imagine.</p>
<p>Finally, I’m quite certain that most, if not all “white kids from the suburbs” (another unkind generalization of yours) have attended school with, interacted with, been friends with, Blacks, Hispanics or Native Americans at some point in their lives. And even if for some reason they haven’t, the fact that there may be some level of initial discomfort between people of disparate backgrounds and experience who now have an opportunity to live and study together as equals in a safe and neutral setting is no reason to divide them further by rushing them off to separate corners of the campus and keeping them there.</p>
<p>That was my original point, if you recall.</p>
<p>These statistics do not change the fact that many minority students will initially feel isolated when they enter a community of mostly affluent white people. Personally, I’ve grown up around mostly Latino and lower-class Asian kids. As much as I may believe myself to be ready to enter the Pomona community, I expect to get a very severe case of culture shock when I realize that not everyone comes from the same background as I do. </p>
<p>enkephalon, i understand where you are coming from, but I feel that sometimes having a network of people who share cultural traits with you can be extremely comforting. I don’t think people should ever seclude themselves from people who are coming from different cultural/social backgrounds, but having the support of knowing you’re not the only poor brown kid on the entire campus is important.</p>
<p>p.s. PLENTY of groups are still fighting for their rights. ex.) The fight for making gay marriage legal throughout the country, or the fight for immigrants’ rights. This world is faaar from fair and equal.</p>
<p>Luckily, there is a lot of support in place for these groups at Pomona.</p>
<p>Thanks for weighing in, atejeda12.</p>
<p>I appreciate your comments regarding the mindset of “minority” kids on campus, and I do not disagree that it may be natural to feel that way. The point I am trying to make is that imagining yourself as a downtrodden minority when you are not in the minority and not necessarily downtrodden is not beneficial to you or the rest of the community in which you live, work or study.</p>
<p>Add up the demographic figures I quoted in my last comment and you see that close to half of the students at Pomona (in that year, anyway) are either visible minorities or foreign students. Consider that the remaining half are most probably an eclectic (and interesting) mix of North Easterners, Texans, Floridians, New Yorkers, Pacific Northwesters, Alaskans, Hawaiians, Mid-Westerners, Californians and assorted and sundry others. Far from being a homogeneous group of “white people”, they could be first-generation or 8th generation descendants of Greek, Italian, Czech, British, French, Scandinavian, Spanish roots. They can express their spirituality (or not) as Jews, Christians, Muslims, Zoroastrians, atheists, agnostics, whatever. They could be from the poor part of town, from the country club set, or from anywhere in between. They can be male, female, hetero, gay, lesbian, bi, whatever. They can enjoy listening to classical, alternative, rap, hip hop, synth, dance, folk, R&B, country, or all of the above. Shall I go on subdividing them, or will you accept my premise that it is inaccurate at best, and racist (or at least misguided) at worst, to lump them into one bunch of “affluent white people”. </p>
<p>What do they have in common with each other? The answer: Perhaps nothing. Perhaps no more, or less, than they may potentially share with you. What exactly do you think makes your initial experience at a new school in a new town or part of the country any different from theirs? They have to leave their homes. They have to make new friends. They could feel lonely from time to time, couldn’t they? So who’s being exclusionary here… them, or you? Who’s prejudging, based on skin colour and false assumptions? Most importantly, who is missing an opportunity to look beyond that crap, reach out and get to know another human being? </p>
<p>You say, “…knowing you’re not the only poor brown kid on the entire campus is important.” What if there were no poor “brown kids” around? Would a poor “yellow kid” do? Yellowish-brown? “Brownish- black”? I know, I’m being facetious here, but can you appreciate how foolish this all sounds? It drives me crazy when people do that to themselves, and others…</p>
<p>Listen, feeling alone and vulnerable in a new, and perhaps intimidating, social and academic environment is a perfectly natural human response. Everyone’s insecure on some level. Some more than others. But that’s no reason to run off in search of the first person that has the same skin color as you, or has eyes shaped like yours. When you do that, you limit yourself by defining yourself in the most narrow and superficial of ways. You are first and foremost an individual human being with whatever net worth you wish to live up to; with personal assets and liabilities like everyone else. Everything else is just decoration… window dressing… embellishment. Yes, you are subject to nature/nurture influences like the rest of us, and your background (wealthy, poor, ethnic, religious) can add to the rich complexity of your personal voyage through life. Just don’t turn it into an anchor.</p>
<p>In answer to your PS:</p>
<p>There are many conflicting views on the question of gay marriage, as you say. And the ongoing battle between those with marriage-related values circumscribed by religious or traditional mores and those people wishing to impose looser definitions of marriage on society is unlikely to end for quite some time. As for me, I do not believe it is a battle for “rights”. Marriage is (or should be) a religious convention, not a human right. Governments should not be in the marriage business. They should let couples, churches and any other involved groups decide what they wish to do amongst themselves.</p>
<p>As for “immigrants’ rights”, I’m not sure what you mean. Legal immigrants in the US have all the rights they could possibly hope for. If you were referring to illegal immigrants, then I must respectfully disagree with you and say that there are not now, and should never be, any “rights” for people who bypass the necessary, normal and accepted routes to citizenship and enter the country illegally.</p>
<p>I do agree that this world, and life as a rule, is not fair. Did you expect it to be?</p>
<p>While I have so much to say in response to your last post, enkephalon, I think we’ve completely taken over the original topic of this thread and we should allow it to get back to that. This was a very legitimate question and I’d love to hear other students’ input. </p>
<p>In closing, though… Even if we are not talking about gay marriage (since it would take me way too long to refute my point about your views of it and I am trying to study for finals…another reason this post isn’t written as clearly as I would like), I don’t think you quite know to what extent LGBT people (as well as other minorities) are still lacking other rights as well - even to the point that there are still no rules in most workplaces that protect workers from being fired over sexual orientation (as there are with race, sex, etc). As for immigrant’s rights, these problems are a lot more complex than I think you may be taking them to be. I’m not as up to par with civil rights as I would like to be, so I’m not going to attempt to make it appear that way. However, in my opinion you really seem to have an idealized view of the world. The world is not fair - nor would anyone expect it to be. But there are some issues that should still be corrected. </p>
<p>Lastly, you seem to have entirely misconstrued what I originally said. I certainly don’t imagine myself as a “downtrodden minority”. And I guess if I have to be more specific to show you why I sometimes “feel lonely” as a minority, I will specify that I am a LGBT student. This does directly affect the college experience, which is often filled with certain social opportunities such as dating. “Reconsidering my worldview” doesn’t really do so much good in that department. I was merely subtly trying make this point without having to be so specific and trying to allow for others to chime in who may feel similarly. I apologize for this topic having blown up like this.</p>
<p>This is a subject that I don’t see us agreeing on, though, and I think we should probably just get back on Naia’s original topic.</p>
<p>I love how ya’ll state your opinons respectfully, without trashing the person who disagrees with you. Its a refreshing change. 
</p>
<p>In response to the minority issue: I would be considered a minority student, and its wierd cuz I’ve spend most of my life around minorities, and not just those of my own minority race. So in my world right now, the minorities are the majority. I’m pretty sure that’s gonna change when I get to Pomona, but I don’t have a problem with that…i don’t judge you, you don’t judge me, and its all good </p>
<p>in response to the OP: when I went to the weekend, we asked people (both minorities and non) what they disliked about pomona, and it was hard for them to find something. like they would sit there and think for a while, and the only answer I remember was when this one girl said she doesn’t like the funky smell that comes in about twice a year when the wind blows really hard. (its close to a farm). Soo yeah, I’ll be going in the fall, so I’ll find out if its really good as everyone says it is </p>
<p>and if you haven’t already, join the Pomona '13 facebook group!</p>
<p>Hi knr802:</p>
<p>I agree that the content of the thread is moving away from the poster’s original intent, so I’ll call it a day with one last comment and then wish you well on your finals.</p>
<p>I just wanted to say that I was not referring to you when I used the term “downtrodden minority”, I was responding to atejeda12. Sorry about the confusion.</p>
<p>You may be right that I have an idealized view of the world, but only in the sense that I believe strongly that we all need a paradigm shift in our thinking if we hope to engage and initiate dialogue, create meaningful relationships with each other, and move forward as a society and global community. It means leaving all the old tribal attitudes, pre-cooked prejudices and divisive behaviours behind, treating everyone with equal respect, and judging them only on their character and integrity, or lack thereof. </p>
<p>Not everyone feels that way right now, I acknowledge that. The world is not perfect and it never will be. And it will take some time to change hearts and minds. However, I don’t believe the answer lies in more subdivision, labelling and segregation. And if we can’t somehow make that paradigm work at a small and college attended by the most enlightened, creative and intelligent young people in the nation – the future bright lights of the country – how in the world can it begin to happen anywhere?</p>
<p>Thank you for not simply dismissing our correspondence as a waste of time. I have enjoyed the spirited dialogue. And thanks for taking time from your studies to respond. Please don’t do it again, though. You need to concentrate on your finals!</p>
<p>Best of luck with the balance of your year, and have a great summer.</p>
<p>Hi knr802:</p>
<p>I agree that the content of the thread is moving away from the poster’s original intent, so I’ll call it a day with one last comment and then wish you well on your finals.</p>
<p>I just wanted to say that I was not referring to you when I used the term “downtrodden minority”, I was responding to atejeda12. Sorry about the confusion.</p>
<p>You may be right that I have an idealized view of the world, but only in the sense that I believe strongly that we all need a paradigm shift in our thinking if we hope to engage and initiate dialogue, create meaningful relationships with each other, and move forward as a society and global community. It means leaving all the old tribal attitudes, pre-cooked prejudices and divisive behaviours behind, treating everyone with equal respect, and judging them only on their character and integrity, or lack thereof. </p>
<p>Not everyone feels that way right now, I acknowledge that. The world is not perfect and it never will be. And it will take some time to change hearts and minds. However, I don’t believe the answer lies in more subdivision, labelling and segregation. And if we can’t somehow make that paradigm work at a small and college attended by the most enlightened, creative and intelligent young people in the nation – the future bright lights of the country – how in the world can it begin to happen anywhere?</p>
<p>Thank you for not simply dismissing our correspondence as a waste of time. I have enjoyed the spirited dialogue. And thanks for taking time from your studies to respond. Please don’t do it again, though. You need to concentrate on your finals!</p>
<p>Best of luck with the balance of your year, and have a great summer! :-)</p>
<p>I don’t think I referred to myself as a “downtrodden minority.” </p>
<p>I definitely did not mean to imply that Pomona’s student body is homogeneous. All I’m saying is that many of us, myself included, come from communities where we are in the majority. To be thrust into a community where only 11% of the population shares a cultural background must be tough, especially when you’re coming from a community where it’s more like 90%. </p>
<p>I am definitely looking forward to meeting different people with different backgrounds, but I would also like to retain some of my own culture. It has so little to do with “race” or color, and so much more to do with culture and identity. Cultural identity does not have to be the only defining characteristic of my personality, but would it really be wrong for me to acknowledge the tremendous influence my culture has had on me? </p>
<p>And I’m sure my experience is no different from any other kid on campus. Which is why various support networks are made available at Pomona to help students find comfort and security on campus while branching out and exploring other views and lifestyles you’ve never been confronted with. </p>
<p>I tried to make it clear that I DO NOT believe in secluding yourself from others. I embrace people’s differences. And I feel people should feel happy to express their differences. You seem to be really against groups that are established for people of specific ethnicities. I can see how one might become frustrated when they feel excluded from these types of groups, but in my experience, most of these groups are actually very welcoming to everyone. While I was at Pomona, CMC has this Multicultural Fair and there were booths from all sorts of different ethnic groups. Everyone seemed very happy to share aspects of their culture with different students. There was no sense of “us vs. them.” Retaining our cultural differences are important. It would be a shame for everyone to lose that, because then what would be the point of meeting different people? Again, excluding others, or secluding yourself, is NOT what i’m talking about here.</p>
<p>when i said “poor brown kid,” I was just referring to the feelings I may feel when I arrive on campus. i didn’t mean to say that my experience is any more important or profound that anyone else’s. As a Mexican student on campus, those might be my initial feelings. I would never allow them to make me feel bitter or unfriendly towards anyone.</p>
<p>I don’t believe religion should decide what constitutes a marriage. My parents weren’t even married by the church, so I’m not sure if you think that makes their marriage invalid? And there are certain rights attached to a marriage, including benefits that a person might get by marrying their partner. I think it’s ridiculous that the church should have any say in what two people in a relationship want to do. </p>
<p>I won’t get into the immigrant right’s debate. I’m pretty sure you can figure out where I stand on that, and that’s not really the issue we’re here to discuss. haha.</p>
<p>OK, I said I wouldn’t, but I would like to respond one last time. :-)</p>
<p>atejeda: Thanks for expanding on your viewpoint. You sound like a very reasonable and likeable person. I understand that when you feel a need to be around people like yourself, you aren’t necessarily trying to be exclusive, and that you also believe it’s important and desirable to meet people of different backgrounds. All part of the rich social and educational experience to be had at places like Pomona, if one chooses to take advantage of it.</p>
<p>And multicultural fairs are fine, as long as the heady “celebration of differences” doesn’t lead in the end to a neglect or abuse of commonality. IMHO, in context of countries and their approach to immigration, cultural melting pots are infinitely preferable to distinct cultural mosaics, because mosaic tiles can exist independent of each other and lack the all-important “grout” that forms the bonds between them. Few, if any, societies succeed in the long-term if their citizens cannot find the will and the way to diminish differences and foster unity.</p>
<p>In that light, I do find it intriguing and somewhat disconcerting that you describe yourself as “Mexican” rather than Hispanic or Latino. Unless you are attending Pomona as an international student from Mexico, that seems an odd label, indeed. If you were born in the US (or born in Mexico and are now naturalized), aren’t you therefore an American? If you are in fact American, identifying yourself as Mexican makes you living proof of my position that encouraging rigid cultural subgroups is not a harmless or neutral endeavour – and usually serves to weaken the fabric of a country (or community) – not strengthen it.</p>
<p>Finally, when I suggested that you were classifying yourself as a downtrodden minority, I was referring to your description of yourself as a “poor brown kid” anticipating “culture shock” at the thought of being parachuted in amongst “mostly affluent white people”. Your words, not mine. That is why I tried to explain the wide demographic spectrum typical of the Pomona student body, and show that it is simply incorrect to categorize an entire half of the campus in that narrow and ungenerous way. White people are not homogeneous. Neither are blacks, browns, greens, purples or any other colour one wishes to assign to other human beings.</p>
<p>PS: I’m not the least bit religious, atejeda, my original point was simply that government should not be in the “marriage business”. What two people wish to do with their lives (with respect to pairing up) should be up to them. Whether you wish to call it a civil union, partnership, marriage, whatever, I really don’t care as long as there is an effort made between the two participants that if they have children they will try to stick together for the sake of the next generation. That is the primary attraction of religious, or traditional, marriage; it is meant to be more than a legal formality that one can discard at will or after the first sign of relationship discord - it is supposed to hold the weight of a sacrament. That sacrament is bound up inextricably with the other benefits and demands of a purpose-driven, religious life experience and the combination thereof hopefully encourages the couple to remain a couple. Done properly, that has the ancillary benefit (critical to society’s long-term health and welfare) of maintaining a stable home for the children. The fact that it doesn’t always work out that way says less about the validity of the institution of marriage than it does about the imperfection of human beings. </p>
<p>That form of marriage was/is typically bestowed by a church, although civil ceremonies will do the conjugal trick quite nicely as well – as in the case of your parents.</p>
<p>As for the “right” to marry, no free-born person should have to ask government or anyone else for “rights” in that respect. There is not, and shouldn’t be a “right” to legally share your life with another person. Everyone should be free to do as they choose. Yes, there might be a stipulation that to obtain the marriage sacrament from a certain church, you must be a member of that church and adhere to that denomination’s belief system. If they don’t believe the same way about things as you do, and refuse to marry you or admit you, move on and find some church or organization that works for you. Or get a civil ceremony. Tax laws and benefit plans should be structured in such a way as to encourage stability among couples and allow people to assign them to whomever they please.</p>
<p>As for immigrant’s rights, I suppose I can imagine where you stand on the matter, but can’t imagine why. As I said before, legal immigrants do have rights. As for the other kind of immigrant, I believe every nation on earth has a right, and an obligation on behalf of it’s citizens, to protect it’s sovereign borders. As does every homeowner the length and breadth of his home turf. Just as you would not appreciate the neighbours (or any stranger) moving into your house unannounced and uninvited, no country should have to accept the fact that millions of people are bypassing legal immigration protocols (to which others patiently adhere), taking up illegal residence within its borders and assuming rights that do not exist. That applies to anyone from anywhere, regardless of their rationale for breaking the law.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the discussion. Have a great summer!</p>